Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Message sent to you follows
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hello sir/ma,

please I am desperate to get my family out of eastern Ukraine town of
Stanytsia Luhanska.

please there is sporadic but heavy artillery gun shelling, and my kid's
kindergarten was hit.

please, send me any amount you can to help me bribe the authorities to
smuggle us out. i cannot watch my wife and kids go through this agony any
more.

please whatever you can, send as Bitofacon. They say that is the only
currency they will accept.

here is the wallet address:
1ff7maSdBYLuRKADQVEDLgz23LV7yEXMa

please pray for our safety.
hurry, hurry, hurry
please the above is not my email address, do not reply.

God bless you.
Borysko

Shame you don’t do Bitofacon, I’ve sent 10k

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 1:43 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:54 am

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:21 am

Is it going to change things more than in 2014?

Yes. Massively.

Why?

Lots of reasons. Fully explaining would require a word count beyond my energy levels and ability of thumbs on a smartphone screen. But the world will change, and not for the better.

It will break the spell. European society has enjoyed unprecedented security, and that will come to shuddering halt, if it hasn't already. We will see the rapid militarization of states that, in itself, will threaten regional peace as age-old territory disputes reignite. And this will not be something that only affect neighbouring countries. We're already seeing tensions resurfacing in the Balkans, for example.

The 2014 invasion was (incorrectly) viewed through a distorted lense. A lack of preparedness saw everyone caught of guard. Even now we use euphemisms such as "annexation of Crimea" and "separatist held region in Donbass". Bullsh*t. Russia aggressively invaded a neighbour.

But a key difference between 2014 and now is that in 2014 Russia moved to occupy territory that was mainly inhabited by ethnic Russians. And they had been primed for this by Kremlin propaganda, so were relatively accomodating to their new Rusian overlords. 2022 will be different because Russia will have to attack territory inhabited by a population that is hostile to it.

Think about what that means. We may be about to witness a modern military attack on modern European population centres. This won't be like Raqqah. This will be on a scale we've never seen before. And if Russia does go in it will do so with extreme and brutal force.

When people like Max make comments like "the losses on both sides will be bad" you have to recognise the fallacy in that statement. Nobody (neither NATO or the west's military industrial complex) wants to invade Russia and kill its citizens. It's just Russia that wants to invade and is prepared to kill Ukrainian citizens. In fact, it's already done this. There's no "both sides" here.

Next you have to consider that this brings NATO and Russian forces in to much closer proximity at a time when things will be very heated and prone to spiralling out of control. The risks here should not need spelling out, but it's no coincidence that Putin personally observed Russian nuclear missle tests yesterday.

And then there are the global ramifications. Japan, Taiwan, Iran, China, Australia et al will all be watching intently. There will be ramifications on global alliances, trade, energy distribution and security. The chain reaction could easily result in huge global casualties, both directly and indirectly, from causes ranging from famine to other regional conflicts erupting whilst attention is elsewhere.

I get that, for those of us who developed our awareness of global security during the Iraq era, cynicism of our own countries is an understandable reaction. But in 2021 the world order radically shifted. Our lives, and our children's future, are now more uncertain than at any time since prior to WW2.

Oh, and by the way, all traffic cameras along roads in Belarus and Russia that lead towards the Ukraine border have just been switched off. And Russian forces stationed in Transnistria have also been put on a state of readiness.

The Black Sea coast is now blockaded. So, aside from it's borders with Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, Ukraine is effectively surrounded.

Olympics over now, expect to see movement in the next 10 days if it's going to happen.

Not practical to keep troops on standby indefinitely

Now I am getting old and frustrated with my leg in plaster & really fed up with the weather. I am beginning to think it's time to call Vlad's bluff & nuke Moscow. give him what he wants!

Dunners wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:21 am

The Black Sea coast is now blockaded. So, aside from it's borders with Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, Ukraine is effectively surrounded.

So not surrounded at all then.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:11 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:21 am

The Black Sea coast is now blockaded. So, aside from it's borders with Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, Ukraine is effectively surrounded.

So not surrounded at all then.

Good point. They've nothing to worry about really.

Think it's time for leaders to move away from "we support Ukraine but there's still time to talk/descalate" etc to "we have tried to resolve this but it's clear Russia has always intended to invade Ukraine no matter what so further talks are pointless. We now stand ready to help Ukraine defend themselves and impose massive sanctions on Russia when they do invade in the near future".

Clive Evans wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:55 am Now I am getting old and frustrated with my leg in plaster & really fed up with the weather. I am beginning to think it's time to call Vlad's bluff & nuke Moscow. give him what he wants!

Russias Nukes are pointing at the UK right now , they arent in Moscow either .

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:06 pm Think it's time for leaders to move away from "we support Ukraine but there's still time to talk/descalate" etc to "we have tried to resolve this but it's clear Russia has always intended to invade Ukraine no matter what so further talks are pointless. We now stand ready to help Ukraine defend themselves and impose massive sanctions on Russia when they do invade in the near future".

The latest statements from Biden, Johnson, and others is basically that.

Also you've got to wonder if helping Ukraine and the sanctions will result in further intimidation of these nations from Russia to try to escalate things. E.g. sending more fighter jets around other countries airspace and potentially into it to try to provoke them, or potentially red flag fake attack on a Russian embassy in another country.

Dunners wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:37 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:06 pm Think it's time for leaders to move away from "we support Ukraine but there's still time to talk/descalate" etc to "we have tried to resolve this but it's clear Russia has always intended to invade Ukraine no matter what so further talks are pointless. We now stand ready to help Ukraine defend themselves and impose massive sanctions on Russia when they do invade in the near future".

The latest statements from Biden, Johnson, and others is basically that.

Probably best to nuke then now. No point in marching to the top of the hill and having to march back down again. The time for talking is over. What has it ever solved.

Dunners wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:21 am Oh, and by the way, all traffic cameras along roads in Belarus and Russia that lead towards the Ukraine border have just been switched off. And Russian forces stationed in Transnistria have also been put on a state of readiness.

First they came for the traffic camera, and I did not speak out for I never adhered to prescribed speed limits.

Why are Russia doing this now?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:30 pm Why are Russia doing this now?

To intimidate Ukraine from joining NATO . The Ukrainian President wants to talk to Putin at any location of Putin’s choice so it might be working.

Russia feels insecure, and has done for a good few years now.
Since the second world war ended, NATO or America, to be precise, has moved further and further east, to the point where they are on Russia's borders. ( The Baltic States )
With Ukraine stating a wish to join NATO, Putin is terrified.
He can see no way of getting the Americans to move back, and in desperation, he sees this now, as the only way
Imagine if Russia had missiles in Mexico or Canada pointing at America, how they'd feel, well that's how Russia feels now. Scared out of their wits

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:18 pm Russia feels insecure, and has done for a good few years now.
Since the second world war ended, NATO or America, to be precise, has moved further and further east, to the point where they are on Russia's borders. ( The Baltic States )
With Ukraine stating a wish to join NATO, Putin is terrified.
He can see no way of getting the Americans to move back, and in desperation, he sees this now, as the only way
Imagine if Russia had missiles in Mexico or Canada pointing at America, how they'd feel, well that's how Russia feels now. Scared out of their wits

Finally, some balance in the debate.

Once again I see Max and Ronnie are joined by their usual like-minded allies, and are trying to bully me.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:18 pm Russia feels insecure, and has done for a good few years now.
Since the second world war ended, NATO or America, to be precise, has moved further and further east, to the point where they are on Russia's borders. ( The Baltic States )
With Ukraine stating a wish to join NATO, Putin is terrified.
He can see no way of getting the Americans to move back, and in desperation, he sees this now, as the only way
Imagine if Russia had missiles in Mexico or Canada pointing at America, how they'd feel, well that's how Russia feels now. Scared out of their wits

Guillable if you believe that.

Almost as if they are waiting for something to happen .

If I was Putin I'd speak to Venezuela about position Missiles there pointing at America as a counter balance . Let's see how the Americans like it .

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:02 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:18 pm Russia feels insecure, and has done for a good few years now.
Since the second world war ended, NATO or America, to be precise, has moved further and further east, to the point where they are on Russia's borders. ( The Baltic States )
With Ukraine stating a wish to join NATO, Putin is terrified.
He can see no way of getting the Americans to move back, and in desperation, he sees this now, as the only way
Imagine if Russia had missiles in Mexico or Canada pointing at America, how they'd feel, well that's how Russia feels now. Scared out of their wits

Guillable if you believe that.

Ha ha. I think young man, you are gullible if you DON'T believe that!

Dunners wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:07 pm Once again I see Max and Ronnie are joined by their usual like-minded allies, and are trying to bully me.

As Jezzas boy said, ‘Every family has a Piers’.

You must feel the same when you see Pammy weigh in on your side.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:15 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:07 pm Once again I see Max and Ronnie are joined by their usual like-minded allies, and are trying to bully me.

As Jezzas boy said, ‘Every family has a Piers’.

You must feel the same when you see Pammy weigh in on your side.

If he's the Piers, does that make me the Jezza?