Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:54 pm
1) I think that the wrong people were in positions of power within the tory Party. Dave was all about Dave. Teresa couldn't give a toss. Both had good chancellors however, I wouldn't trust either of them as far as I could throw them.

I do think Boris does want to make a difference and his levelling up will help to achieve it. Under his watch I would like to see these policies reversed or new ones brought in to change the direction that was taken. I know I bang on about homelessness, but he has set in policy to eradicate it by 2025 this can only be a good thing and its these sort of polices that must be driven forwards which make huge differences to peoples lives.

2) we need to see how that goes in the next 4 years.

3) all politicians are a part of the establishment. As far as starmer building himself up could he and his views work in favour of the many and not the few? Possibly only time will in that respect.

Thanks for your response, I appreciate that. I think you are a RUBBISH conservative, and I mean that as a compliment.

With homelessness, he can't set it 'in policy' unless the rest of other policies reflect. To do that he would need to overhaul the DWP and its sanctions system, increase mental health funding dramatically (including CAMHS), improve meaningful employment opportunity by banishing zero hour contracts and therefore improving welfare even more significantly, introduce a rapid rehousing programme, build more social housing than any Prime Minister of the past 70 years, do away with the bedroom tax, substantially improve third sector funding etc.

If he did all of that, and I sincerely hope he does, he won't be a Conservative PM. And he won't get enough party support.

I doubt he'll be there in a year either, so I don't think you'll ever know.

Starmer would be a gigantic step up, and he isn't even my type of politician by a long shot.

Basically, you're sliding towards being a liberal, Thor. Welcome to this side of the line.

Why the F*ck is this topic being discussed on the Labour watch thread ?

Anybody ?

Anybody at all ?

Please take it outside !!

I thought you liked irrelevancy?

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:58 pm I thought you liked irrelevancy?

What has UB in germany got to do with the Labour Party ?

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

If we need all this Thory
Put in the Tory watch thread
Then some of the people who voted for.them, might
realise voting Tory isnt a good thing .

The tory party have been in charge since 2010

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:54 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:59 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Can I ask you 2 questions on this, Thor? We have very different views politically, but I think your heart is in the right place so I'm interested.

1) I agree we do. So why haven't they done so in a decade of power? And in most cases, why have they enacted policy to make these things go backwards?

2) If you know/agree that things have got worse that way under their tenure but these issues matter to you, why do they deserve your vote?

3) Tories say, and you've said it here before 'Lefties/Labour don't like people that do well/earn well' - so why do you feel the same about Starmer who has built himself up? Why is he part of the establishment?

1) I think that the wrong people were in positions of power within the tory Party. Dave was all about Dave. Teresa couldn't give a toss. Both had good chancellors however, I wouldn't trust either of them as far as I could throw them.

I do think Boris does want to make a difference and his levelling up will help to achieve it. Under his watch I would like to see these policies reversed or new ones brought in to change the direction that was taken. I know I bang on about homelessness, but he has set in policy to eradicate it by 2025 this can only be a good thing and its these sort of polices that must be driven forwards which make huge differences to peoples lives.

2) we need to see how that goes in the next 4 years.

3) all politicians are a part of the establishment. As far as starmer building himself up could he and his views work in favour of the many and not the few? Possibly only time will in that respect.

Of all the pish you post on here, this is the most bat-sh*t crazy thing I’ve read. Boris has conned you.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:21 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:54 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:59 pm

Can I ask you 2 questions on this, Thor? We have very different views politically, but I think your heart is in the right place so I'm interested.

1) I agree we do. So why haven't they done so in a decade of power? And in most cases, why have they enacted policy to make these things go backwards?

2) If you know/agree that things have got worse that way under their tenure but these issues matter to you, why do they deserve your vote?

3) Tories say, and you've said it here before 'Lefties/Labour don't like people that do well/earn well' - so why do you feel the same about Starmer who has built himself up? Why is he part of the establishment?

1) I think that the wrong people were in positions of power within the tory Party. Dave was all about Dave. Teresa couldn't give a toss. Both had good chancellors however, I wouldn't trust either of them as far as I could throw them.

I do think Boris does want to make a difference and his levelling up will help to achieve it. Under his watch I would like to see these policies reversed or new ones brought in to change the direction that was taken. I know I bang on about homelessness, but he has set in policy to eradicate it by 2025 this can only be a good thing and its these sort of polices that must be driven forwards which make huge differences to peoples lives.

2) we need to see how that goes in the next 4 years.

3) all politicians are a part of the establishment. As far as starmer building himself up could he and his views work in favour of the many and not the few? Possibly only time will in that respect.

Of all the pish you post on here, this is the most bat-sh*t crazy thing I’ve read. Boris has conned you.

He is conning you as wepl Take any talk of the buffoon into Tory watch.!

Calm down tuffers dear. Its only a thread

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:01 pm Calm down tuffers dear. Its only a thread

Put it in this one then Thorbyn

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=424&start=2925

As this is the labour watch thread, treat yourself to a labour watch.

The link didn’t work, not sure why, it anyway it was a Corbyn watch I kid you not.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:45 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:58 pm Universal Basic income.

See - easy.

I do believe that is coming. Germany are currently undertaking a trail of U.B.I on a selected number of people to see how it works as they've taken a cross range of earnings and will research what transpires.

Interesting that even Thor agrees!
When Jeremy Corbyn spoke about Universal Basic Income in the 2019 election campaign as the direction for the future he was slagged, derided, slated.
He also was deemed as ridiculous for suggesting that in future internet access should become a free service for all.

Just a few months on, the pandemic struck and more & more of life is depending on internet access: business, Parliament, TV programs, teaching in schools and universities, etc. etc and when you are too poor to have internet access or live in an area where coverage is poor - you are excluded!

And now maybe even Corbyn haters might begin to see the merits of his policies?

And while Johnson for the Tories is getting more and more extreme in abandoning the rules of decency and lawfulness in politics as shown in his support for Priti Patel ....

.... Keir Starmer and Margaret Hodge are getting more and more extreme in their vilification of Corbyn.

So in a way both sides are abandoning the notions of honesty and decency ......

No wonder then that so many people are turned off from politics and feel "they are only in it for themselves".

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/as ... ght-corbyn

When it comes to politics, I have learnt that you always have to look for what's under the surface

E10EU wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:22 am

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:45 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:58 pm Universal Basic income.

See - easy.

I do believe that is coming. Germany are currently undertaking a trail of U.B.I on a selected number of people to see how it works as they've taken a cross range of earnings and will research what transpires.

Interesting that even Thor agrees!
When Jeremy Corbyn spoke about Universal Basic Income in the 2019 election campaign as the direction for the future he was slagged, derided, slated.
He also was deemed as ridiculous for suggesting that in future internet access should become a free service for all.

Just a few months on, the pandemic struck and more & more of life is depending on internet access: business, Parliament, TV programs, teaching in schools and universities, etc. etc and when you are too poor to have internet access or live in an area where coverage is poor - you are excluded!

And now maybe even Corbyn haters might begin to see the merits of his policies?

Corbyn haters = realists

As for merits of his policies -

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:52 am

E10EU wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:22 am

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:45 pm

I do believe that is coming. Germany are currently undertaking a trail of U.B.I on a selected number of people to see how it works as they've taken a cross range of earnings and will research what transpires.

Interesting that even Thor agrees!
When Jeremy Corbyn spoke about Universal Basic Income in the 2019 election campaign as the direction for the future he was slagged, derided, slated.
He also was deemed as ridiculous for suggesting that in future internet access should become a free service for all.

Just a few months on, the pandemic struck and more & more of life is depending on internet access: business, Parliament, TV programs, teaching in schools and universities, etc. etc and when you are too poor to have internet access or live in an area where coverage is poor - you are excluded!

And now maybe even Corbyn haters might begin to see the merits of his policies?

Corbyn haters = realists

As for merits of his policies -

I’m a Corbyn hater, to use your terminology, but some of his policies had merits. That for me, policies, were not the issue. His problem to me was being a person long on rhetoric and short on action. And short on reality. He promised so much, yet we all knew that in reality his chances of delivering were limited, even if elected. Even the Labour election review acknowledged this. All things to all people. The people saw the lie.

He talked a good story, promised all sorts of goodies. but the costings never really stacked up. It’s easy to make promises you know you are unlikely ever to deliver.

E10EU wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:22 am

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:45 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:58 pm Universal Basic income.

See - easy.

I do believe that is coming. Germany are currently undertaking a trail of U.B.I on a selected number of people to see how it works as they've taken a cross range of earnings and will research what transpires.

Interesting that even Thor agrees!
When Jeremy Corbyn spoke about Universal Basic Income in the 2019 election campaign as the direction for the future he was slagged, derided, slated.
He also was deemed as ridiculous for suggesting that in future internet access should become a free service for all.

Just a few months on, the pandemic struck and more & more of life is depending on internet access: business, Parliament, TV programs, teaching in schools and universities, etc. etc and when you are too poor to have internet access or live in an area where coverage is poor - you are excluded!

And now maybe even Corbyn haters might begin to see the merits of his policies?

Interesting reply and it could be because this pandemic has highlighted so many things that we may not hear or see normally. Take my own children, they had proper lessons, structured had their own laptops, iPads and phones to help them undertake learning on a daily basis. They could do that as I could afford all that equipment, so my children were ok through this. Then it became apparent that some children didn’t have any electronic device with which to undertake school work and even if they were given one then they still wouldn’t be able to do it as they didn’t have the internet access either.

One of my old schools Stoneydown in Walthamstow were asking for old laptops, iPads etc. As they have children without such devices and our donations could help make a differences to their education.

So I could see U.B.I working in a positive way, a way to help lift people up and give them an opportunity to live a better life and allow the parents to present their children with the best opportunity to get on in life. We are all created equal, just that some are more equal than others and a rebalancing is required to make that equality fairer.

I saw a stat the other day that said the 3 richest people in the world have more money than the poorest 42 countries. Really? Somethings wrong when more or less a fifth of the world is poorer than three people.

Finally corbyn was derided about free internet not because of the concept, but because of his costings and his taking over of BT to achieve it. £20bn I think the cost was verses BT’s £200 odd billion.

E10EU wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:37 am And while Johnson for the Tories is getting more and more extreme in abandoning the rules of decency and lawfulness in politics as shown in his support for Priti Patel ....

.... Keir Starmer and Margaret Hodge are getting more and more extreme in their vilification of Corbyn.

So in a way both sides are abandoning the notions of honesty and decency ......

No wonder then that so many people are turned off from politics and feel "they are only in it for themselves".

Today an article suggested that Starmer will refuse to allow corbyn to return unless he provides a full apology and until that happens he remains on a rolling 3 month suspension.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:54 pm
1) I think that the wrong people were in positions of power within the tory Party. Dave was all about Dave. Teresa couldn't give a toss....

I do think Boris does want to make a difference...

2) we need to see how that goes in the next 4 years.

3) all politicians are a part of the establishment. As far as starmer building himself up could he and his views work in favour of the many and not the few? Possibly only time will in that respect.

1. You're wrong about Theresa May. Out of the last 3 Tory PMs she sincerely held beliefs in helping 'the left behind'. We can disagree with her ideas and solutions, but she invested more time than any other PM in working with stakeholders to address issues such as poverty, housing and homelessness. It's just that her attempts at shaping Britain's future domestic policies were hijacked by Brexit.

3. Well, duh, by virtue of being an MP then, yes, they are part of an establishment. You're definitely onto something there. I participate in a few projects and working groups in which many MPs participate. It is my experience that most are smart, hard working and well-intentioned. I may disagree with many of them on certain things, but I do not doubt their commitment. But they also have to operate within a framework which can be limiting (although that can be a good thing too).

Well intentioned to who?

The sinister, secret cabal that are the 1%, of course.

Heh. I’m waiting for the moment when Dunnem outs himself as a LibDem convert, so reasonable and Social Democratic are his views becoming.

[I’ve not been a member of Labour, or any other political party, since the 1980s, and can’t see that changing any time soon. Though I generally vote Labour - Green if they have a sniff - even for Centrist Dad councillors and miserable Red Tories like Blair].

I’m just hoping I don’t slide rightwards into cap-doffing senility as I approach dunnem’s age.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:09 pmAmazon is a prime example

Unintentional heh

Centrist Dad Councillors would be a great name for a band, albeit one that mainly tours pubs playing 70s and 80s rock covers.

Obligatory OMG this country is finished hyperbole