Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:59 amWho is keef?

SirKeef. The temporary leader of the Labour Party.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:40 am

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:21 am How about this then?

Meanwhile, a Labour peer resigned from the party yesterday after nearly 50 years over its treatment of anti-Semitism and Mr Corbyn's readmission.

Lord Desai, an economist who was made a peer in 1991, wrote to The Times: 'I have been very uncomfortable and slightly ashamed that the party has been injected with this sort of racism.

'Jewish MPs were abused openly, and female members were trolled. It is out-and-out racism.'

Wait until he finds out about the level of Islamaphobia in the party. He will go ballistic.

Keef is sitting on the report on this at the moment doing nothing and praying it goes away.

Never heard of this dude but a quick google reveals he’s written several books on the Terror of Islam.

I’m sure he’ll be fine when Kieth does get around to the islamaphobia thing.

Ahh the wet lettuce who is part of the establishment, he won’t change anything he will just do as he’s told. I hope I’m wrong, but I doubt it.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:32 pm Ahh the wet lettuce who is part of the establishment, he won’t change anything he will just do as he’s told. I hope I’m wrong, but I doubt it.

Of course he won’t change anything. Not sure why that upsets you though?

Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Correct. Especially now that the government have proved the existence of the previously mythical magic money tree during the last 9 months.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Can I ask you 2 questions on this, Thor? We have very different views politically, but I think your heart is in the right place so I'm interested.

1) I agree we do. So why haven't they done so in a decade of power? And in most cases, why have they enacted policy to make these things go backwards?

2) If you know/agree that things have got worse that way under their tenure but these issues matter to you, why do they deserve your vote?

3) Tories say, and you've said it here before 'Lefties/Labour don't like people that do well/earn well' - so why do you feel the same about Starmer who has built himself up? Why is he part of the establishment?

3) Tories say, and you've said it here before 'Lefties/Labour don't like people that do well/earn well' - so why do you feel the same about Starmer who has built himself up? Why is he part of the establishment?

I think I can answer that last question.

Is it because he is leader of the Labour Party that makes him part of the establishment.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:45 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Correct. Especially now that the government have proved the existence of the previously mythical magic money tree during the last 9 months.

Sometimes I read comments that are so absolutely stupid it makes me laugh. This is one of those comments.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Easy way to end child poverty. Stop people having kids when they can't afford them

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:44 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Easy way to end child poverty. Stop people having kids when they can't afford them

1) How do you propose that works ?

2) What about people who could "afford them" when the kids were born, but who's circumstances have now changed ?

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:46 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:44 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Easy way to end child poverty. Stop people having kids when they can't afford them

1) How do you propose that works ?

2) What about people who could "afford them" when the kids were born, but who's circumstances have now changed ?

No idea. How do you propose to end child poverty? Not any easier that way is it?

Universal Basic income.

See - easy.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:58 pm Universal Basic income.

See - easy.

And how would you ensure that this is spent by the career to feed and clothe the child as obviously child benefit is currently not doing the job?

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:38 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:45 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Correct. Especially now that the government have proved the existence of the previously mythical magic money tree during the last 9 months.

Sometimes I read comments that are so absolutely stupid it makes me laugh. This is one of those comments.

Now you know how we all feel.

But in amongst the silliness I was making a serious point by reflecting back to morons like you the language Tories use when people ask for higher pay, better hospitals, education, transport etc

It is clear govts can borrow enormous amounts when required. They just choose not to when it comes to the welfare of the nation. This is because they are evil.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:58 pm Universal Basic income.

See - easy.

I do believe that is coming. Germany are currently undertaking a trail of U.B.I on a selected number of people to see how it works as they've taken a cross range of earnings and will research what transpires.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Yep. And for the first time in either of our life times, we had someone who whole heartedly wanted to do all of that. And we f*cked it up. They won’t be stupid enough to let it happen again.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:45 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:58 pm Universal Basic income.

See - easy.

I do believe that is coming. Germany are currently undertaking a trail of U.B.I on a selected number of people to see how it works as they've taken a cross range of earnings and will research what transpires.

No chance of it happening here. No chance.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:49 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:45 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:58 pm Universal Basic income.

See - easy.

I do believe that is coming. Germany are currently undertaking a trail of U.B.I on a selected number of people to see how it works as they've taken a cross range of earnings and will research what transpires.

No chance of it happening here. No chance.

I'm not so sure. Would it help sell it if it meant sacking thousands of unproductive bureaucrats in the benefits industry and in the process have a bonfire of red tape as the complicated layers of benefits rules are scrapped.

The icing on the cake would be to outsource it to the private sector to ensure the taxpayer gets value for money and a few of the Tories mates get rich quick.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:59 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 pm Cos we need change, to steal a Tory saying we need to see a levelling up. We need to end homelessness, we need to end child poverty, we need to build more affordable homes. We need to make society fairer for all. It’s not like we can’t afford to do all that and a whole lot more, now is it?

Can I ask you 2 questions on this, Thor? We have very different views politically, but I think your heart is in the right place so I'm interested.

1) I agree we do. So why haven't they done so in a decade of power? And in most cases, why have they enacted policy to make these things go backwards?

2) If you know/agree that things have got worse that way under their tenure but these issues matter to you, why do they deserve your vote?

3) Tories say, and you've said it here before 'Lefties/Labour don't like people that do well/earn well' - so why do you feel the same about Starmer who has built himself up? Why is he part of the establishment?

1) I think that the wrong people were in positions of power within the tory Party. Dave was all about Dave. Teresa couldn't give a toss. Both had good chancellors however, I wouldn't trust either of them as far as I could throw them.

I do think Boris does want to make a difference and his levelling up will help to achieve it. Under his watch I would like to see these policies reversed or new ones brought in to change the direction that was taken. I know I bang on about homelessness, but he has set in policy to eradicate it by 2025 this can only be a good thing and its these sort of polices that must be driven forwards which make huge differences to peoples lives.

2) we need to see how that goes in the next 4 years.

3) all politicians are a part of the establishment. As far as starmer building himself up could he and his views work in favour of the many and not the few? Possibly only time will in that respect.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:49 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:45 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:58 pm Universal Basic income.

See - easy.

I do believe that is coming. Germany are currently undertaking a trail of U.B.I on a selected number of people to see how it works as they've taken a cross range of earnings and will research what transpires.

No chance of it happening here. No chance.

The germans are paying £1,050 equivalent in euros regardless of income and one of the aims is to see what effect that has across the board. Will people help.each other more for example?

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:56 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:49 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:45 pm

I do believe that is coming. Germany are currently undertaking a trail of U.B.I on a selected number of people to see how it works as they've taken a cross range of earnings and will research what transpires.

No chance of it happening here. No chance.

The germans are paying £1,050 equivalent in euros regardless of income and one of the aims is to see what effect that has across the board. Will people help.each other more for example?

Doubt most people in this country would, regardless of how much they earnt. We have a nation of selfish I’m alright Jack borders who screamed commy when corbyn dared challenge a tiny bit more tax off of the highest earners.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:03 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:56 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:49 pm

No chance of it happening here. No chance.

The germans are paying £1,050 equivalent in euros regardless of income and one of the aims is to see what effect that has across the board. Will people help.each other more for example?

Doubt most people in this country would, regardless of how much they earnt. We have a nation of selfish I’m alright Jack borders who screamed commy when corbyn dared challenge a tiny bit more tax off of the highest earners.

What you should be questioning is why companies get away with blue murder where tax is concerned. .if governments sorted that out then I'm positive personal.taxation could be relaxed. Amazon is a prime example, UK company channels in to a dutch company which then provably heads out to the British Virgin Islands or somewhere else where you dodge tax. Stop that and there is no need to keep taxing until the pips sqeaks.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:09 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:03 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:56 pm

The germans are paying £1,050 equivalent in euros regardless of income and one of the aims is to see what effect that has across the board. Will people help.each other more for example?

Doubt most people in this country would, regardless of how much they earnt. We have a nation of selfish I’m alright Jack borders who screamed commy when corbyn dared challenge a tiny bit more tax off of the highest earners.

What you should be questioning is why companies get away with blue murder where tax is concerned. .if governments sorted that out then I'm positive personal.taxation could be relaxed. Amazon is a prime example, UK company channels in to a dutch company which then provably heads out to the British Virgin Islands or somewhere else where you dodge tax. Stop that and there is no need to keep taxing until the pips sqeaks.

You are right. But apparently charging correct tax rates to companies would mean they would ‘move abroad’.

We need a government with a backbone and who isn’t funded by the people they need to make like harder for. Won’t happen.

True, but if all governments worked together to stop the tax dodging then they would stay in their own jurisdiction.