Israel

[Max B Gold]

Why the hostages were being held in an area where there were mainly women and children in the first place?

Surely Hamas must have known that any attempt to rescue the hostages would result in civilian loss of life if the IDF came for them, not to mention the distinct likelihood of friendly fire deaths as Hamas attempted to keep the IDF at bay.

Justifying the mass slaughter of refugees. What's your next post going to be about, Hitler: was he all bad?

Advocating the use of human shields by expecting Israel to do nothing because hostages are being held in a refugee camp.

I'll leave you to confirm whether the "Hitler" jibe was an antisemitic trope or not. I assume you're trying to equate the behaviour of the IDF withthe Nazis but I'm not sure.

Nobody is saying do nothing there could have been a negotiated prisoner exchange like there has been in the past.

The refugees are innocent and have been massacred by Israel not Hamas. The human shield argument is just another way of saying its OK to slaughter women and children because Israel does not value the lives of Palestinians.

Your assumption re the jibe is wrong. It was, by ridicule, a way of demonstrating you are willing to defend the indefensible and I borrowed it from Not The Nine O'clock news.

You need to work harder on the antisemitism smears. They don't work anymore because people can see what their purpose is.

[faldO]

The refugees are innocent and have been massacred by Israel not Hamas. The human shield argument is just another way of saying its OK to slaughter women and children because Israel does not value the lives of Palestinians.

"Human shield" is a bit more than an argument to the 1000s of innocent Palestinians who are deliberately placed in harm's way by Hamas, who do not care one bit whether they live or die.

But I suppose if you have the romantic notion of Hamas as freedom fighters, as you do, that is a fact it is easy to overlook.

[Max B Gold]

The refugees are innocent and have been massacred by Israel not Hamas. The human shield argument is just another way of saying its OK to slaughter women and children because Israel does not value the lives of Palestinians.

"Human shield" is a bit more than an argument to the 1000s of innocent Palestinians who are deliberately placed in harm's way by Hamas, who do not care one bit whether they live or die.

But I suppose if you have the romantic notion of Hamas as freedom fighters, as you do, that is a fact it is easy to overlook.

I don't for one second have a romantic notion that Hamas are freedom fighters I would care to associate with. They are however freedom fighters.

The 2.2m inhabitants of Gaza have been living in an open prison for decades. They have been subject to oppression, starved of the basics for human life and bombed and massacared by Israel for decades. Israel places the Palestinians in Gaza in harms way and slaughters the human shield on a regular basis.

[faldO]

I don't for one second have a romantic notion that Hamas are freedom fighters I would care to associate with. They are however freedom fighters.

If Hamas were freedom fighters they would value the lives of those whose freedom they are fighting for, otherwise what is the point? They - Hamas - have it within their power to end the war and the suffering of innocent Palestinians.

Even the people of Gaza can see what you cannot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw44ve90dppo

The bloodshed on the ground prompted a rare venting of criticism at Hamas from people in Gaza.

Hassan Omar, 37, said he lamented the unnecessary loss of lives in Israeli strikes, telling the BBC: "For each Israeli hostage they could have freed 80 Palestinian prisoners and without any bloodshed - [that] is a million times better than losing 100 dead.

"My message to Hamas is stopping the loss is part of the gain, we should get rid of those who control us from Qatar hotels.”

[Max B Gold]

I don't for one second have a romantic notion that Hamas are freedom fighters I would care to associate with. They are however freedom fighters.

If Hamas were freedom fighters they would value the lives of those whose freedom they are fighting for, otherwise what is the point? They - Hamas - have it within their power to end the war and the suffering of innocent Palestinians.

Even the people of Gaza can see what you cannot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw44ve90dppo

The bloodshed on the ground prompted a rare venting of criticism at Hamas from people in Gaza.

Hassan Omar, 37, said he lamented the unnecessary loss of lives in Israeli strikes, telling the BBC: "For each Israeli hostage they could have freed 80 Palestinian prisoners and without any bloodshed - [that] is a million times better than losing 100 dead.

"My message to Hamas is stopping the loss is part of the gain, we should get rid of those who control us from Qatar hotels.”

Whether you or I like them or not Hamas are freedom fighters engaged in a battle to free their land from insurgent colonialists. That is a fact and nothing can change it.

The quotes which attempt to support some Palestinians turning against Hamas has all the flavour of propoganda.

The actions of Hamas in Gaza does not explain the continued deaths and false imprisonments of Palestinians on the West Bank.

[faldO]

The quotes which attempt to support some Palrstinians turning against Hamas has all the flavour of propoganda.

Yeah, right, it doesn't fit your narrative so must be propaganda. The quote is from a real person in Gaza - rather than a student on a campus urging Hamas to "free Palestine from the river to the sea" or an ageing middle class SWP activist calling for an "Intifada revolution" - utterly fed up with the situation, who sees Hamas as the real cause of the misery being inflicted upon him, his family and the majority of the Palestinian people as a whole, and wants it to stop.

The actions of Hamas in Gaza does not explain the continued deaths and false imprisonments of Palestinians on the West Bank.

Who said it does? I can see why you might want to change the subject though...

[Max B Gold]

The quotes which attempt to support some Palrstinians turning against Hamas has all the flavour of propoganda.

Yeah, right, it doesn't fit your narrative so must be propaganda. The quote is from a real person in Gaza - rather than a student on a campus urging Hamas to "free Palestine from the river to the sea" or an ageing middle class SWP activist calling for an "Intifada revolution" - utterly fed up with the situation, who sees Hamas as the real cause of the misery being inflicted upon him, his family and the majority of the Palestinian people as a whole, and wants it to stop.

The actions of Hamas in Gaza does not explain the continued deaths and false imprisonments of Palestinians on the West Bank.

Who said it does? I can see why you might want to change the subject though...

My narrative is the cessation of the slaughter. Yours is deranged. Stop making things up and deal in facts.

In what way is highlighting the continuity of Israel's slaughter of Palestinians in the West Bank changing the subject?

Anyway, I've had enough of your drivel and won't be replying to any of your posts.

[faldO]

Anyway, I've had enough of your drivel and won't be replying to any of your posts.

That's probably for the best.

You could have at least used the "drops mike" emoji as you bow out, in an attempt to save face...

[FrankOFile]

I don't for one second have a romantic notion that Hamas are freedom fighters I would care to associate with. They are however freedom fighters.

If Hamas were freedom fighters they would value the lives of those whose freedom they are fighting for, otherwise what is the point? They - Hamas - have it within their power to end the war and the suffering of innocent Palestinians.

Even the people of Gaza can see what you cannot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw44ve90dppo

The bloodshed on the ground prompted a rare venting of criticism at Hamas from people in Gaza.

Hassan Omar, 37, said he lamented the unnecessary loss of lives in Israeli strikes, telling the BBC: "For each Israeli hostage they could have freed 80 Palestinian prisoners and without any bloodshed - [that] is a million times better than losing 100 dead.

"My message to Hamas is stopping the loss is part of the gain, we should get rid of those who control us from Qatar hotels.”

Whether you or I like them or not Hamas are freedom fighters engaged in a battle to free their land from insurgent colonialists. That is a fact and nothing can change it.

The quotes which attempt to support some Palestinians turning against Hamas has all the flavour of propoganda.

So says the biggest supporter of terrorists on the forum with a history of bigoted posts against the Israeli people.

As Lenin would say, you are a true polezniye duraki for the hard left.

[Max B Gold]

Sookmaboaby

[CEB]

“That is a fact and nothing can change it”

No, what it is is a framing. And the way you choose to frame Hamas says an awful lot about you.

[ComeOnYouOs]

It's now time to kick Israel out of the UN.

They are a rogue, pariah state, that never abides by UN resolutions.

They are committing one of the worst genocides in history

They were only allowed to join the UN in the first place, by agreeing to three conditions, which they said they would, but they lied, and did none of them

They are an apartheid state

[Max B Gold]

“That is a fact and nothing can change it”

No, what it is is a framing. And the way you choose to frame Hamas says an awful lot about you.

It is actually a FACT and me noting it says nothing about whether I am comfortable with it or not. So leave out the 2nd year Poly psychology chief it's not your strong point.

[CEB]

Oh now you’ve said it in capitals I stand corrected.

[e15O]

It's now time to kick Israel out of the UN.

They are a rogue, pariah state, that never abides by UN resolutions.

They are committing one of the worst genocides in history

They were only allowed to join the UN in the first place, by agreeing to three conditions, which they said they would, but they lied, and did none of them

They are an apartheid state

Highlighted the only correct part of your post - a genocide in which the population grows, the rate of civilian deaths is less than any comparable combat in history and the number of deaths is far less than any actual genocide is truly one of the least effective and worst attempts at genocide in history.

I don’t agree with the bombing campaign, I don’t agree with anything going on in the West Bank, but it really isn’t a genocide. No need to be so dramatic, darling.

[Brigs]

Can you prove it's not?

It's now time to kick Israel out of the UN.

They are a rogue, pariah state, that never abides by UN resolutions.

They are committing one of the worst genocides in history

They were only allowed to join the UN in the first place, by agreeing to three conditions, which they said they would, but they lied, and did none of them

They are an apartheid state

Highlighted the only correct part of your post - a genocide in which the population grows, the rate of civilian deaths is less than any comparable combat in history and the number of deaths is far less than any actual genocide is truly one of the least effective and worst attempts at genocide in history.

I don’t agree with the bombing campaign, I don’t agree with anything going on in the West Bank, but it really isn’t a genocide. No need to be so dramatic, darling.

The term genocide was coined in 1943 by the Jewish-Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin, who combined the Greek word "genos" (race or tribe) with the Latin word "cide" (to kill).

After witnessing the horrors of the Holocaust, in which every member of his family except his brother was killed, Dr Lemkin campaigned to have genocide recognised as a crime under international law.

His efforts gave way to the adoption of the United Nations Genocide Convention in December 1948, which came into effect in January 1951.

Article Two of the convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such":

●Killing members of the group
●Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
●Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
●Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
●Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
●The convention also imposes a general duty on states that are signatories to "prevent and to punish" genocide.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-11108059

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Would recommend East West Street about the law and definition of Genocide and Crimes Against humanity and how they were agreed upon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_West_Street

[faldO]

Hamas leader believes civilian deaths are ‘necessary sacrifices’ in Israeli war, leaked letters show

The mastermind behind Hamas’s Oct 7 attacks on Israel is stalling ceasefire talks and using the mounting Palestinian death toll to his advantage, leaked messages show.

Correspondence between Yahya Sinwar, the terror group’s military leader, and officials tasked with brokering a ceasefire with Qatari and Egyptian officials indicate he is more interested in securing his own future than peace.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/ha ... r-BB1o11K5

[CEB]

Hashtag freedom fighting

[Max B Gold]

Hamas leader believes civilian deaths are ‘necessary sacrifices’ in Israeli war, leaked letters show

At last something Hamas and Israel can agree on.