Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I don't know, but i think there'd be a chance of peace.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 10:35 pm I don't know, but i think there'd be a chance of peace.

Yeh, there was loads of peace pre-Hamas.

Yeah, I’m not so sure. Since 1948 Israel have actively been trying to displace Palestinians and undermine their rights. If Hamas disappeared that wouldn’t stop. It’s a fundamental problem and a good cover for escalating into a genocide.

They were on a good track to with the Oslo accords between the PLO and Israel

That being until Hamas/PIJ began a suicide bombing campaign to scupper the peace talks and Israeli PM Rabin got assassinated.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 7:35 am They were on a good track to with the Oslo accords between the PLO and Israel

That being until Hamas/PIJ began a suicide bombing campaign to scupper the peace talks and Israeli PM Rabin got assassinated.

Hamas were propped up by Netanyhou to undermine the PLO and the Oslo accords. The Zionists were never going to accept a two state solution.

That's why there is currently a genocide in Gaza and daily murders and assassinations on the West Bank.

Which all came after the period I was referencing

BN was elected following Rabin’s assassination and Hamas/PIJ suicide bombing campaign. Both done to kill the Oslo accords and any chance at peace

Rabin was a Zionist btw

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 10:00 am Which all came after the period I was referencing

BN was elected following Rabin’s assassination and Hamas/PIJ suicide bombing campaign. Both done to kill the Oslo accords and any chance at peace

Rabin was a Zionist btw

Hamas and BN both rejected the Oslo accords which is why they worked together.

Yes, Rabin was a Zionist. But was he a good faith actor in the peace process or simply buying time?

Buying time before what?

He was assassinated and his commitment to a roadmap to peace has led to his party never forming a government again

This is pretty good

I've had numerous messages recently asking me to publicly post about the situation in Gaza.

I want to be honest. I have been away for the past year and a half treating brain damage in a foreign country. I am not educated enough on a feud that spans decades and leans on dogmatic beliefs and power struggles, so how am i meant to inject any kind of relevant opinion, and even if i could what is the voice of some random dude from wales goint to achieve? What I do know as a fact is it breaks me whenever innocent civilians are caught up in greedy power games, of course I condemn war, particularly those where people die at the hands of dogma.

As I've grown up It's become screamingly apparent that if western media is heavily covering a foreign war, then there is usually a power incentive to shape public oppinion one way or the other, so to even educate yourself becomes difficult. How many people spread information after seeing a few memes? And why do westerners have a selectivity bias, where are the people yelling about recent wars in Ethiopia, lybia, western Sahara, or is it only sad if the west is involved somehow?

I don't want to contribute to any kind of misinformation, so I have been cautious about offering an oppinion

I don't ever want to post something i dont know enough about just to make me look good online, which is why i focus on areas i am actually well versed and educated in like the chronic health sector. Many of the celebrities I've seen posting would probably struggle to point out Gaza on a map. Many of the people posting things like "your silence is deafening" on random celebrity posts haven't stepped foot in a war zone in their lives. The distain I feel for social media bandwaggoning that is more about virtue signaling, the ego and self image rather than genuine empathy is very real, I really hate it.

Online social activism can be great but can also be a bit like pressing down on the accelerator pedal while the handbrake is on, it needs clear mobilization, goals and directive or it turns into alot of people shouting into a void. Many people make a cause their identity and attack people online without actually doing much for the cause itself. During black lives matter a scarily low percentage of Any money raised actually went to helping people of colour in impoverished areas, but it did make alot of people capitalizing of the slogans very rich. Do the digging yourself, statistically there isn't significant change in any black ghettos in America, and furthermore, after the push for defund the police you now have members of the forces struggling to actually do their jobs, which may all sound well and good until you actually need assistance yourself.

The reason I say this is to drive home the point that it is vital that these movements are well organized, which most aren't. The power of people is very real, but there needs to be clear objectives or it just turns into alot of angry noise which creates further divisions which in turn breeds divisions and suffering. Intent is very important.

A few weeks ago I spent weeks emotionally draining myself to put out a video on chronic health, telling my own story, knowing I wouldn't profit from it, knowing I would loose some followers from it, but it was totally worth while for the people it actually spoke too. On it was a comment saying "I'm disappointed your not talking about gaza" which is as tone deaf as walking into a cancer support meet up and asking them why no one there gives a sh*t about aids.

Seeing as this is turning into a big post I will actually offer my oppinion. Of course I think there should be a cease fire. I think this conflict has exposed the UN. I think it has exposed that those who represent us value life less than power. I think we should stop wasting time using conflict in to create more conflict online. Know your enemy. Know your leverage and asses where its failing. If applying pressure by protesting, petitions, or street activism isn't working then revolt. The powers that be have far more influence over this situation than the court of public opinion. If they have a directive or a goal signing a million petitions won't change a thing, they need very real pressure. Short of this find ways to provide aid to warzones either directly or indirectly. This will do much more than virtue signaling and sharing memes online.

If you want to earn the right to tell someone else what they're doing wrong then get off your ass and do something that makes a real impactful difference first, and instead of "I'm so disappointed your not talking about..." maybe try "hey I'd love to educate you on this situation"

Stop using conflict to create conflict

It's good that he points out the difference between online activism and real life action. Who knew?

He's very down on memes and sharing disinformation which is great too.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 10:31 am Buying time before what?

He was assassinated and his commitment to a roadmap to peace has led to his party never forming a government again

Who was he assassinated by? Genuinely know nothing about it

I was agreeing with Mindsweeps C&P until they offered their actual opinion at the end.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 10:05 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 10:31 am Buying time before what?

He was assassinated and his commitment to a roadmap to peace has led to his party never forming a government again

Who was he assassinated by? Genuinely know nothing about it

An Israeli who thought he’d sold the country out for agreeing to road map to peace

Simultaneously Hamas and allies massively ramped up suicide bombings within Israel to turn their electorate against the Oslo accords and peace talks

Resulting in Likud coming to power in the late 90s and the Labour Party which had dominated politics in the country since its creation never ruling again and eventually disappearing off the political map.

Quite sad, but yeah basically the extremes on both sides who only want a single state solution for themselves got what they wanted in bringing an end to the Oslo accords

Google taking a right hammering these past 24 hours.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 11:56 am

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 10:05 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 10:31 am Buying time before what?

He was assassinated and his commitment to a roadmap to peace has led to his party never forming a government again

Who was he assassinated by? Genuinely know nothing about it

An Israeli who thought he’d sold the country out for agreeing to road map to peace

Simultaneously Hamas and allies massively ramped up suicide bombings within Israel to turn their electorate against the Oslo accords and peace talks

Resulting in Likud coming to power in the late 90s and the Labour Party which had dominated politics in the country since its creation never ruling again and eventually disappearing off the political map.

Quite sad, but yeah basically the extremes on both sides who only want a single state solution for themselves got what they wanted in bringing an end to the Oslo accords

Interestingly, thanks. So a Zionist knocked him off to maintain the status quo?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 12:05 pm Google taking a right hammering these past 24 hours.

Luckily it only takes 5 seconds per check.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 12:07 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 11:56 am

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 10:05 am

Who was he assassinated by? Genuinely know nothing about it

An Israeli who thought he’d sold the country out for agreeing to road map to peace

Simultaneously Hamas and allies massively ramped up suicide bombings within Israel to turn their electorate against the Oslo accords and peace talks

Resulting in Likud coming to power in the late 90s and the Labour Party which had dominated politics in the country since its creation never ruling again and eventually disappearing off the political map.

Quite sad, but yeah basically the extremes on both sides who only want a single state solution for themselves got what they wanted in bringing an end to the Oslo accords

Interestingly, thanks. So a Zionist knocked him off to maintain the status quo?

Basically yeah, although Rabin was a Zionist as well.

You can simultaneously believe in a two state solution and peace whilst also believing Israel has a right to exist where it does.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 10:05 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 10:31 am Buying time before what?

He was assassinated and his commitment to a roadmap to peace has led to his party never forming a government again

Who was he assassinated by? Genuinely know nothing about it

A Right wing Israeli extremist, Yigal Amir who was firmly against peace with Palestine

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 10:05 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 10:31 am Buying time before what?

He was assassinated and his commitment to a roadmap to peace has led to his party never forming a government again

Who was he assassinated by? Genuinely know nothing about it

Emergence of hope
"The atmosphere in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories in the months leading up to Rabin's assassination on 4 November 1995 was turbulent; a mixture of hope, among supporters of peace on both sides, and fear and loathing on the Israeli right-wing and within the Palestinian militants of Hamas.

I moved to Jerusalem in August 1995 to start a posting as the BBC Middle East correspondent. Wherever you went in Israeli West Jerusalem there were posters of Yitzhak Rabin, put there by Israeli opponents of the interim peace deals he had agreed with the Palestinians.

In many of them, Rabin was made to look like Yasser Arafat, complete with a black-and-white Palestinian scarf, the keffiyeh, folded around his head in the Arafat style.

In some posters, waved at demonstrations, Israeli enemies of Rabin portrayed him as a Nazi, in the black uniform of the SS. Benjamin Netanyahu - then leader of the opposition, now prime minister - spoke at some of the most vitriolic anti-Rabin rallies".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34712057

A real shame. Some people, on both sides, just don’t want a two state solution

Agree with that.
However the lie that it's all down to Hamas &
nothing to do with the right wing Israeli government
has to be called out.
As you say Peace from both sides is an alien concept
To small powerful groups.
Somehow they have to take the leap of faith & find belief in a ceasefire.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 9:45 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 7:35 am They were on a good track to with the Oslo accords between the PLO and Israel

That being until Hamas/PIJ began a suicide bombing campaign to scupper the peace talks and Israeli PM Rabin got assassinated.

Hamas were propped up by Netanyhou to undermine the PLO and the Oslo accords. The Zionists were never going to accept a two state solution.

That's why there is currently a genocide in Gaza and daily murders and assassinations on the West Bank.

Evidence, or is this just another one of your barking mad, hate-filled posts against the Jewish nation?

Yeah, even I winced reading this.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news ... oss-israel

Israel has offered a ceasefire deal that would end the war and lead to the withdrawal of troops and return of hostages

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-has-o ... n-13146193

Over to Hamas now to finally do the right thing.