Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:39 pm**

P&O originally stood for the Peninsular and Oriental Shipping Line. Draw your own conclusions.

Posted: **Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:24 pm**

aylesburyos wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:34 pm People here just won't stand up to them. In France there would be a riot

In France the Unions would bring the country to a standstill

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:25 am**

Adz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:58 pm
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:48 pm
aylesburyos wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:05 pm Peninsular & Orient have some history in our club. They were never interested in helpin our club under FB- they never replied to my correspondence
I thought N Kaufmans 1990 book updated his 1974 book where he said
P&O had something to do with our name to they had nothing to do with
our name as it was Orient steam shipping company who our guy worked for .
Orient steam shipping merged with p and o though, so there's still a link

yes they merged in 1919 , we were formed in 1881 & took the name Orient before 1900 , the only link we hav is the red kit with blue white & orange/yellow badge which are the colours of the P&O FLAG That represents the peninsular colours of Spain & Portugal & there flaqs .

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:05 pm**

Irish Ferries tried to pull a similar stunt recently, but had to (partly) back down after a kerfuffle. The shipping industry, in all its forms, is a very murky world.

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:29 pm**

"gently"

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:50 pm**

What's the issue here? Companies have to make as much profit as possible to pay dividends to their shareholders. And to do that they have to minimise costs wherever possible, including wages. This is the system we operate under and as discussed many times, there is simply no other possible way of organising ourselves.

Presumably those made redundant are not excluded from applying to the agencies and working back on the boats if they so wish?

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:51 pm**

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:29 pm "gently"

We'll soon forget. And it's not as if there are a sh*t load of options to cross the channel.

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:02 pm**

Hasnt this country been outsourcing our work to cheap foreigners for some time now?

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:20 pm**

Stowaway wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:39 pm P&O originally stood for the Peninsular and Oriental Shipping Line. Draw your own conclusions.

Our treasurer worked for Orient steam navigation though didnt he ?

Havent got the books to hand, but im sure that is what
N Kaufman wrote in the 1990 complete History

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:03 pm**

It’s alright. 6 years ago P&O workers’ union (and mine) said this in support of Brexit

2. Leave the EU to end attacks on seafarers and the offshore workers

The EU has promoted undercutting and social dumping leading to the decimation of UK seafarers. The same is now happening in the offshore sector. EU directives also require the tendering our public ferry services.

Yeah, because it was the EU making companies do this.

Posted: **Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:14 pm**

Been reported that P&O are paying less than £2 an hour to Indian seamen & other foreign sourced staff. It seems that minimum wage doesn’t apply to agency staff from a foreign Country. I hope they go out of business. I wouldn’t use them.

Posted: **Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:32 pm**

Apparently it's because their ships are registered in other countries (Like Cyprus) so don't have to comply with UK law

Posted: **Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:49 pm**

Only registered there recently

https://www.sovereigngroup.com/news/new ... of-brexit/

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:10 am**

New employees to be paid just £1.80 per hour.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:34 am**

What do P&O Ferries do exactly? I assume the ferries over the Channel are just a small part of their business?

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:36 am**

Law clearly needs changing if this is legal. No company physically based in the UK should be able to employ people on these terms.

P&O had said that the employees they sacked could re-apply for their jobs. On these terms? Plus, how could they re-apply when their positions have already been filled with low cost foreign workers.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:37 am**

Gary the Plumber wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:34 am What do P&O Ferries do exactly? I assume the ferries over the Channel are just a small part of their business?

That’s all they do. Cruises are a separate entity.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:41 am**

I genuinely feel sorry for the poor ferry workers who have lost their jobs without any warning but this has been brewing for some time.

I can't deny that P&O has handled the process dreadfully. And yet the militants of the RMT Union are just as much to blame as the bosses. They combine a pig-headedness and complacent disregard for the customer that comes straight from the 1970s. This is probably the most dramatic piece of union-busting since Rupert Murdoch moved all his newspaper titles from Fleet Street to Wapping in 1986, breaking the power of the print unions in the process.

Even with services running again, and with Covid restrictions lifted and the summer holidays approaching, P&O is still expecting to lose about £100m this year.

The RMT is the most extreme and militant trade union. It has virtually bankrupted the London Underground with its insistence on maintaining every job even when robots could do the work far more cheaply and efficiently, calling its members out on constant strikes even as London struggles to recover from the pandemic.

It has led strikes at South-Eastern, on the Trans Pennine Express, campaigned against any cleaning jobs being outsourced, and driven rail suppliers to fire and rehire their workforces to try to clear out the union.

Following a Freedom of Information (FOI) request made by MyLondon to Transport for London in early 2021, the annual wage of a full-time Tube driver was revealed as £56,496! And how do you get one of these fantastic jobs? The answer is you don't as due to a deal with the unions, members of the public haven't been able to apply to directly become a Tube driver since 2008.

The chances of the RMT recognising that with working from home becoming the new normal, we will need different Tube and train services, with varying hours, re-invented working practices and fewer staff? In truth, less than zero. It opposes any form of change.

I am not anti-union; in many cases they fight for the rights of workers who would otherwise be left defenceless and P&O may have handled the matter appallingly but if it breaks the power of the RMT, the result will be the secure, profitable ferry network an island nation needs - and quite a few commuters will be quietly cheering them on.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:54 am**

The nation doesn't need a ferry service that only pays its workers £1.80 an hour.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:18 pm**

Jeanluc wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:41 am I genuinely feel sorry for the poor ferry workers who have lost their jobs without any warning but this has been brewing for some time.

I can't deny that P&O has handled the process dreadfully. And yet the militants of the RMT Union are just as much to blame as the bosses. They combine a pig-headedness and complacent disregard for the customer that comes straight from the 1970s. This is probably the most dramatic piece of union-busting since Rupert Murdoch moved all his newspaper titles from Fleet Street to Wapping in 1986, breaking the power of the print unions in the process.

Even with services running again, and with Covid restrictions lifted and the summer holidays approaching, P&O is still expecting to lose about £100m this year.

The RMT is the most extreme and militant trade union. It has virtually bankrupted the London Underground with its insistence on maintaining every job even when robots could do the work far more cheaply and efficiently, calling its members out on constant strikes even as London struggles to recover from the pandemic.

It has led strikes at South-Eastern, on the Trans Pennine Express, campaigned against any cleaning jobs being outsourced, and driven rail suppliers to fire and rehire their workforces to try to clear out the union.

Following a Freedom of Information (FOI) request made by MyLondon to Transport for London in early 2021, the annual wage of a full-time Tube driver was revealed as £56,496! And how do you get one of these fantastic jobs? The answer is you don't as due to a deal with the unions, members of the public haven't been able to apply to directly become a Tube driver since 2008.

The chances of the RMT recognising that with working from home becoming the new normal, we will need different Tube and train services, with varying hours, re-invented working practices and fewer staff? In truth, less than zero. It opposes any form of change.

I am not anti-union; in many cases they fight for the rights of workers who would otherwise be left defenceless and P&O may have handled the matter appallingly but if it breaks the power of the RMT, the result will be the secure, profitable ferry network an island nation needs - and quite a few commuters will be quietly cheering them on.

We need to ask ourselves why so many businesses aren't viable unless they pay the vast majority of their workforce abhorrently pitiful wages. The disparity between wages is the issue. I'm not saying we go full communist, but there has to be limits on greed Remember, businesses were against the minimum wage and claimed they would collapse as a result. They didn't. A certain class of people have fought tooth and nail to prevent the workers rights currently afforded to us (including weekends) - and as a result, we need unions even as pigheaded as the RMT to counter balance that. TFL isn't bankrupt because of the RMT - its central government funding has been drastically slashed before a pandemic hit in a purely political move. It wouldn't have been slashed if the mayor was a Tory.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:32 pm**

Jeanluc wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:41 am I genuinely feel sorry for the poor ferry workers who have lost their jobs without any warning but this has been brewing for some time.

I can't deny that P&O has handled the process dreadfully.

I've helped by removing the completely inconsequential Union bashing. Anyone who tries to deflect from the disgusting behaviour of P&O needs to just keep it buttoned. No behaviour from Unions or workers can possibly explain away the actions of this sh-itty company.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:05 pm**

Guess you need some form of license to dock, which theoretically I also guess the government can rescind

But I also guess this would lead to an expensive court battle that I guess they'd lose.

So they'll just have to suck it up.... I guess

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:33 pm**

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:05 pm Guess you need some form of license to dock, which theoretically I also guess the government can rescind

But I also guess this would lead to an expensive court battle that I guess they'd lose.

So they'll just have to suck it up.... I guess

I guess the Government should just do as you've suggested and not go to court.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:39 pm**

Why dont they just put their prices up?

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:51 pm**

Gary the Plumber wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:33 pm
Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:05 pm Guess you need some form of license to dock, which theoretically I also guess the government can rescind

But I also guess this would lead to an expensive court battle that I guess they'd lose.

So they'll just have to suck it up.... I guess
I guess the Government should just do as you've suggested and not go to court.

Then automatically lose and P&O get what they want plus compensation

Fail to see the upside

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