Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:49 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:25 pm

Therein lies your problem
Comparing us to Brentfotd who have spent far more time in the top flight in England than we did & the belief that because Brentfords Multi Millionaire owner has invested a far larger amount that took 5 -10 years tp really show success ie Reaching the Premier League
That is the blind faith of an entitled deluded fan !

Which in the course of those years has brought multiple promotions along the way. Said owner also made the sensible decision to bin their money pit academy and invest in the first team.

Meanwhile we go in the opposite direction diluting the first team to keep this obsession with bringing through youth players, only to end up bringing in other people's youth players to replace them. Top logic.

Asking why can't we have owners like the best owner, imo, in English football is a bit silly. They have exclusive access to a football analytics company that is incredible and has meant their recruitment has been way above any other small club. The owner is also absolutely minted and incredibly focussed on the club, in a way that is pretty uncommon.

Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

Plus, it took him a while to get it right as well. Took him 5 years to get promoted from league 1 to championship, despite pouring in cash.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:35 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

This is the key bit, this whole "community club" identity is what holds Orient back and why we watch others go past us. With limited resources you basically make a choice, be virtuous or be ruthless & ambitious. We know from NT and KT's answers on the Q&A the academy loses money so seems like as a business the former takes precedence.

No point blaming successive managers when they get increasingly thinner squads and are told to bring through young players that will make mistakes and be learning on the job. End result if they're decent they'll end up at another club for someone else's long-term benefit anyway.

o-no wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:35 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:35 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

This is the key bit, this whole "community club" identity is what holds Orient back and why we watch others go past us. With limited resources you basically make a choice, be virtuous or be ruthless & ambitious. We know from NT and KT's answers on the Q&A the academy loses money so seems like as a business the former takes precedence.

No point blaming successive managers when they get increasingly thinner squads and are told to bring through young players that will make mistakes and be learning on the job. End result if they're decent they'll end up at another club for someone else's long-term benefit anyway.

It's a fair point. Would we be better off investing the academy money in additional scouts? I'm starting to think we might.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:18 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:49 pm

Which in the course of those years has brought multiple promotions along the way. Said owner also made the sensible decision to bin their money pit academy and invest in the first team.

Meanwhile we go in the opposite direction diluting the first team to keep this obsession with bringing through youth players, only to end up bringing in other people's youth players to replace them. Top logic.

Asking why can't we have owners like the best owner, imo, in English football is a bit silly. They have exclusive access to a football analytics company that is incredible and has meant their recruitment has been way above any other small club. The owner is also absolutely minted and incredibly focussed on the club, in a way that is pretty uncommon.

Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

Plus, it took him a while to get it right as well. Took him 5 years to get promoted from league 1 to championship, despite pouring in cash.

So 2 promotions in 13 years against our 1 in 4 under our new regime .
Time is on our side it seems .

o-no wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:35 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:35 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

This is the key bit, this whole "community club" identity is what holds Orient back and why we watch others go past us. With limited resources you basically make a choice, be virtuous or be ruthless & ambitious. We know from NT and KT's answers on the Q&A the academy loses money so seems like as a business the former takes precedence.

No point blaming successive managers when they get increasingly thinner squads and are told to bring through young players that will make mistakes and be learning on the job. End result if they're decent they'll end up at another club for someone else's long-term benefit anyway.

It's a fair point. Would we be better off investing the academy money in additional scouts? I'm starting to think we might.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:20 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:18 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm

Asking why can't we have owners like the best owner, imo, in English football is a bit silly. They have exclusive access to a football analytics company that is incredible and has meant their recruitment has been way above any other small club. The owner is also absolutely minted and incredibly focussed on the club, in a way that is pretty uncommon.

Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

Plus, it took him a while to get it right as well. Took him 5 years to get promoted from league 1 to championship, despite pouring in cash.

So 2 promotions in 13 years against our 1 in 4 under our new regime .
Time is on our side it seems .

What happens if promotion to league 1 isn’t achieved by the end of next season?

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:20 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:18 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm

Asking why can't we have owners like the best owner, imo, in English football is a bit silly. They have exclusive access to a football analytics company that is incredible and has meant their recruitment has been way above any other small club. The owner is also absolutely minted and incredibly focussed on the club, in a way that is pretty uncommon.

Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

Plus, it took him a while to get it right as well. Took him 5 years to get promoted from league 1 to championship, despite pouring in cash.

So 2 promotions in 13 years against our 1 in 4 under our new regime .
Time is on our side it seems .

What happens if promotion to league 1 isn’t achieved by the end of next season?

kokomO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:49 am Some of our supporters need to get a grip and stop wetting the bed. Just over a month ago we were stuffing Swindon out of sight, you would've thought by the reaction of the same supporters Orient 2022 were up there with Brazil 1970.

Since then we have had an enforced break of 5 weeks that has derailed us more than a little, played at Tranmere with a severely under par squad due to illness/injury and have lost by far our most creative players to injury (Archibald and James). The results are some disappointing performances.

However, according to some we've gone from Brazil 70 to Doncaster 98 in the space of a month and a half.

Ridiculous and a lot folks seriously don't know what it's like to support a club like Leyton Orient. This is what we do, this is why we are where we are, get a grip.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:20 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:18 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm

Asking why can't we have owners like the best owner, imo, in English football is a bit silly. They have exclusive access to a football analytics company that is incredible and has meant their recruitment has been way above any other small club. The owner is also absolutely minted and incredibly focussed on the club, in a way that is pretty uncommon.

Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

Plus, it took him a while to get it right as well. Took him 5 years to get promoted from league 1 to championship, despite pouring in cash.

So 2 promotions in 13 years against our 1 in 4 under our new regime .
Time is on our side it seems .

What happens if promotion to league 1 isn’t achieved by the end of next season?

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:20 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:18 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 pm

Asking why can't we have owners like the best owner, imo, in English football is a bit silly. They have exclusive access to a football analytics company that is incredible and has meant their recruitment has been way above any other small club. The owner is also absolutely minted and incredibly focussed on the club, in a way that is pretty uncommon.

Having a youth team is a big part of our identity, I think it would be mad to scrap on the off chance it allows us to have a couple more first teamers come in every season that get his promoted.

Plus, it took him a while to get it right as well. Took him 5 years to get promoted from league 1 to championship, despite pouring in cash.

So 2 promotions in 13 years against our 1 in 4 under our new regime .
Time is on our side it seems .

What happens if promotion to league 1 isn’t achieved by the end of next season?

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:53 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:20 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:18 pm

So 2 promotions in 13 years against our 1 in 4 under our new regime .
Time is on our side it seems .

What happens if promotion to league 1 isn’t achieved by the end of next season?

For me after such a good start and so called improvements in the squad anything less than play offs is a disaster.
All the promises of extra funding being made available in this transfer window has amounted to next to nothing in bringing in the proven, quality players at this level or above that is desperately needed to get us promoted.
Without the proven, quality players brought in we can kiss goodbye to any chance of even getting in the play offs, which in my opinion is a kick in the teeth to our supporters, who have suffered for far too long.
In my opinion something is very wrong at our club and in my view Ling has to go and give any manager total control over which players come into our club.
I live in West Sussex and have passed my 70th birthday, have been to only one home match and and paid to only watch one stream.
I want to come to more matches but the owners have to prove they are committed to promotion by bringing in the proven, quality players needed to get promoted, to date this year this has not happened and we have played far to negatively and this will not encourage me to watch any matches at the stadium or pay to watch the online stream.
I am sure there must be many supporters that feel the same as me which will effect the club financially.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:03 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:53 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:20 pm
What happens if promotion to league 1 isn’t achieved by the end of next season?

For me after such a good start and so called improvements in the squad anything less than play offs is a disaster.
All the promises of extra funding being made available in this transfer window has amounted to next to nothing in bringing in the proven, quality players at this level or above that is desperately needed to get us promoted.
Without the proven, quality players brought in we can kiss goodbye to any chance of even getting in the play offs, which in my opinion is a kick in the teeth to our supporters, who have suffered for far too long.
In my opinion something is very wrong at our club and in my view Ling has to go and give any manager total control over which players come into our club.
I live in West Sussex and have passed my 70th birthday, have been to only one home match and and paid to only watch one stream.
I want to come to more matches but the owners have to prove they are committed to promotion by bringing in the proven, quality players needed to get promoted, to date this year this has not happened and we have played far to negatively and this will not encourage me to watch any matches at the stadium or pay to watch the online stream.
I am sure there must be many supporters that feel the same as me which will effect the club financially.

The thing is Poundy at the beginning of the season we did bring in some proven quality players and an experienced manager . That's what got our hopes up . Unfortunately during this window we couldn't follow it up with similar signings . OK, Khan does look decent but unproven youngsters are mainly for the future , not now .

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:13 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:03 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:53 pm

For me after such a good start and so called improvements in the squad anything less than play offs is a disaster.
All the promises of extra funding being made available in this transfer window has amounted to next to nothing in bringing in the proven, quality players at this level or above that is desperately needed to get us promoted.
Without the proven, quality players brought in we can kiss goodbye to any chance of even getting in the play offs, which in my opinion is a kick in the teeth to our supporters, who have suffered for far too long.
In my opinion something is very wrong at our club and in my view Ling has to go and give any manager total control over which players come into our club.
I live in West Sussex and have passed my 70th birthday, have been to only one home match and and paid to only watch one stream.
I want to come to more matches but the owners have to prove they are committed to promotion by bringing in the proven, quality players needed to get promoted, to date this year this has not happened and we have played far to negatively and this will not encourage me to watch any matches at the stadium or pay to watch the online stream.
I am sure there must be many supporters that feel the same as me which will effect the club financially.

The thing is Poundy at the beginning of the season we did bring in some proven quality players and an experienced manager . That's what got our hopes up . Unfortunately during this window we couldn't follow it up with similar signings . OK, Khan does look decent but unproven youngsters are mainly for the future , not now .

One of the main problems from the very start of the season was not having enough proven, quality players to replace injuries or suspensions.The club once again went for the cheap option by failing to boost the numbers in the squad with proven, experienced payers instead relying on youngsters that were not up to it.

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:13 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:03 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:53 pm

For me after such a good start and so called improvements in the squad anything less than play offs is a disaster.
All the promises of extra funding being made available in this transfer window has amounted to next to nothing in bringing in the proven, quality players at this level or above that is desperately needed to get us promoted.
Without the proven, quality players brought in we can kiss goodbye to any chance of even getting in the play offs, which in my opinion is a kick in the teeth to our supporters, who have suffered for far too long.
In my opinion something is very wrong at our club and in my view Ling has to go and give any manager total control over which players come into our club.
I live in West Sussex and have passed my 70th birthday, have been to only one home match and and paid to only watch one stream.
I want to come to more matches but the owners have to prove they are committed to promotion by bringing in the proven, quality players needed to get promoted, to date this year this has not happened and we have played far to negatively and this will not encourage me to watch any matches at the stadium or pay to watch the online stream.
I am sure there must be many supporters that feel the same as me which will effect the club financially.

The thing is Poundy at the beginning of the season we did bring in some proven quality players and an experienced manager . That's what got our hopes up . Unfortunately during this window we couldn't follow it up with similar signings . OK, Khan does look decent but unproven youngsters are mainly for the future , not now .

One of the main problems from the very start of the season was not having enough proven, quality players to replace injuries or suspensions.The club once again went for the cheap option by failing to boost the numbers in the squad with proven, experienced payers instead relying on youngsters that were not up to it.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:15 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:13 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:03 pm


The thing is Poundy at the beginning of the season we did bring in some proven quality players and an experienced manager . That's what got our hopes up . Unfortunately during this window we couldn't follow it up with similar signings . OK, Khan does look decent but unproven youngsters are mainly for the future , not now .

One of the main problems from the very start of the season was not having enough proven, quality players to replace injuries or suspensions.The club once again went for the cheap option by failing to boost the numbers in the squad with proven, experienced payers instead relying on youngsters that were not up to it.

The Main problem is your over inflated expectations .

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:32 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:15 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:13 pm

One of the main problems from the very start of the season was not having enough proven, quality players to replace injuries or suspensions.The club once again went for the cheap option by failing to boost the numbers in the squad with proven, experienced payers instead relying on youngsters that were not up to it.

The Main problem is your over inflated expectations .

What were your expectations going into this season?

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:54 pm Getting up to L1 isn't as desperate as it was to get out of the tinpot NL but if the club wants to move forward and develop we need to go up a level

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:32 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:15 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:13 pm

One of the main problems from the very start of the season was not having enough proven, quality players to replace injuries or suspensions.The club once again went for the cheap option by failing to boost the numbers in the squad with proven, experienced payers instead relying on youngsters that were not up to it.

The Main problem is your over inflated expectations .

What were your expectations going into this season?

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:26 am

kokomO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:49 am Some of our supporters need to get a grip and stop wetting the bed. Just over a month ago we were stuffing Swindon out of sight, you would've thought by the reaction of the same supporters Orient 2022 were up there with Brazil 1970.

Since then we have had an enforced break of 5 weeks that has derailed us more than a little, played at Tranmere with a severely under par squad due to illness/injury and have lost by far our most creative players to injury (Archibald and James). The results are some disappointing performances.

However, according to some we've gone from Brazil 70 to Doncaster 98 in the space of a month and a half.

Ridiculous and a lot folks seriously don't know what it's like to support a club like Leyton Orient. This is what we do, this is why we are where we are, get a grip.

Another who probably started supporting the club in the 1980’s so is happy with us being rubbish. It’s not what we have always done. We used to be a championship side. I think it’s supporters like you that are part of the problem. Too many people settling for second best. This club is based in one of the great global cities and all it has done in the last 30 years is go backwards. Brentford are in the premiership for Christ’s sake. We are again festering in the bottom tier losing matches with barely any shots on target and are supposed to be happy? Utter tripe.

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:38 pm

o-no wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:35 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:35 pm

This is the key bit, this whole "community club" identity is what holds Orient back and why we watch others go past us. With limited resources you basically make a choice, be virtuous or be ruthless & ambitious. We know from NT and KT's answers on the Q&A the academy loses money so seems like as a business the former takes precedence.

No point blaming successive managers when they get increasingly thinner squads and are told to bring through young players that will make mistakes and be learning on the job. End result if they're decent they'll end up at another club for someone else's long-term benefit anyway.

It's a fair point. Would we be better off investing the academy money in additional scouts? I'm starting to think we might.

In ye olden days before EPPP came in making a Zakuani or an Odubajo who brought in a £1 million fee made the endeavour worthwhile. Even then the only successes were 8 years apart, not a great return really.

However now you either lose prospects for a pittance if they're not on a pro contract (Ling said we'd lost a few at 15-16 age range) or they go for a low fee once they get into the last year of their initial pro contract. Koroma only made £500-700k and he's the only one we made any significant money on from that entire group.

When there's a constant supply of not-quite-good-enough players coming down from Prem and Championship academies why bother investing all that time and effort to make your own? Looking at the players we've signed in this window it's a pertinent question.

Winchesterfan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:16 pm

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:26 am

kokomO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:49 am Some of our supporters need to get a grip and stop wetting the bed. Just over a month ago we were stuffing Swindon out of sight, you would've thought by the reaction of the same supporters Orient 2022 were up there with Brazil 1970.

Since then we have had an enforced break of 5 weeks that has derailed us more than a little, played at Tranmere with a severely under par squad due to illness/injury and have lost by far our most creative players to injury (Archibald and James). The results are some disappointing performances.

However, according to some we've gone from Brazil 70 to Doncaster 98 in the space of a month and a half.

Ridiculous and a lot folks seriously don't know what it's like to support a club like Leyton Orient. This is what we do, this is why we are where we are, get a grip.

Another who probably started supporting the club in the 1980’s so is happy with us being rubbish. It’s not what we have always done. We used to be a championship side. I think it’s supporters like you that are part of the problem. Too many people settling for second best. This club is based in one of the great global cities and all it has done in the last 30 years is go backwards. Brentford are in the premiership for Christ’s sake. We are again festering in the bottom tier losing matches with barely any shots on target and are supposed to be happy? Utter tripe.

For God’s sake get a grip on reality. History is History like it or hate it. We are in the 21st century and are a better run and organised club than in the 80’s when I started supporting the O’s. It’s nothing to do with second best. If you don’t like the fact we will never be a premiership team go elsewhere. I’d far rather support a friendly club with a mainly faithful following, than one of the money grabbing faceless premier clubs.
Football is entertainment and can be very emotional. I could never support another club and knew exactly the type of club I was supporting when I first came to Brisbane Road. Passionate, friendly and genuine.
It is sad that you seem to get pleasure from rubbishing our club when we are not doing so well. Try being positive for once about the O’s you might even enjoy it.