Independent Leyton Orient Forum

it seems that Yorkshire isnt the only place to
use this sort of language .

Beradogs wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:31 pm One of those words that everyone will use amongst friends or on whats app but best left there.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:40 pm

Stowaway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:08 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:47 pm It's funny, but I've thought about this a lot in the past. Without really knowing why, p--i does somehow resonate as being a bit derogatory. And yet we don't bat an eyelid if we say: an 'Aussi, an Argi, or a Afghani?

It’s all about context. In Australia the word “paki” is used fairly freely without offence, because over there it’s never been used as an insult, unlike here in the UK where it’s obviously a derogatory term.

In Australia, the word ‘paki’ is used freely because they’re about 50 years behind us.

Also I've never heard anyone say paki in australia and i've been here 15 years.

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:47 pm It's funny, but I've thought about this a lot in the past. Without really knowing why, p--i does somehow resonate as being a bit derogatory. And yet we don't bat an eyelid if we say: an 'Aussi, an Argi, or a Afghani?

In the UK in the 80s and 90s Paki was used as a catch all term for people from india, pakistan, bangladesh, etc, in hate speech, hence its racial connotations. I suspect if people only called people from pakistan paki's and never used it in an aggressive context it wouldn't be seen as racist

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:03 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:47 pm It's funny, but I've thought about this a lot in the past. Without really knowing why, p--i does somehow resonate as being a bit derogatory. And yet we don't bat an eyelid if we say: an 'Aussi, an Argi, or a Afghani?

In the UK in the 80s and 90s Paki was used as a catch all term for people from india, pakistan, bangladesh, etc, in hate speech, hence its racial connotations. I suspect if people only called people from pakistan paki's and never used it in an aggressive context it wouldn't be seen as racist

That sums it up pretty perfectly, thank you.

P*** is a term of abuse, shouted at you in the street or written on your home.

Unfortunately it is also used generally by some people in a non-offensive context ("just going to the p*** shop for some bread" or as so-called "banter") hence some people say nothing offensive is meant by it - and in most of these cases nothing is.

But ask people who grew up in the 70s/80s/90s on the wrong end of it what they think of it, and what emotions it evokes when they hear it, and you'll probably get a different story.

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:01 am

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:03 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:47 pm It's funny, but I've thought about this a lot in the past. Without really knowing why, p--i does somehow resonate as being a bit derogatory. And yet we don't bat an eyelid if we say: an 'Aussi, an Argi, or a Afghani?

In the UK in the 80s and 90s Paki was used as a catch all term for people from india, pakistan, bangladesh, etc, in hate speech, hence its racial connotations. I suspect if people only called people from pakistan paki's and never used it in an aggressive context it wouldn't be seen as racist

That sums it up pretty perfectly, thank you.

P*** is a term of abuse, shouted at you in the street or written on your home.

Unfortunately it is also used generally by some people in a non-offensive context ("just going to the p*** shop for some bread" or as so-called "banter") hence some people say nothing offensive is meant by it - and in most of these cases nothing is.

But ask people who grew up in the 70s/80s/90s on the wrong end of it what they think of it, and what emotions it evokes when they hear it, and you'll probably get a different story.

That doesn’t sum it up perfectly, sorry. The suggestion that it was used in the 80s and 90s implies that it stopped being a racist insult in the 00s and 10s, which is obviously bollocks. (It also predates the 80s but that’s not the point).

If you are saying you’re ‘just going to the paki shop’, you are being offensive and racist.

If you ‘jokingly’ ask an Asian person if their dad owns a shop on a corner, you are being racist.

Come on Pammy - you make your clever lefty baiting comments on these topics, which I’m sure keep you from boredom at work, but then these Dummies follow your lead and come out with this genuine racist nonsense.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:07 am

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:01 am

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:03 pm

In the UK in the 80s and 90s Paki was used as a catch all term for people from india, pakistan, bangladesh, etc, in hate speech, hence its racial connotations. I suspect if people only called people from pakistan paki's and never used it in an aggressive context it wouldn't be seen as racist

That sums it up pretty perfectly, thank you.

P*** is a term of abuse, shouted at you in the street or written on your home.

Unfortunately it is also used generally by some people in a non-offensive context ("just going to the p*** shop for some bread" or as so-called "banter") hence some people say nothing offensive is meant by it - and in most of these cases nothing is.

But ask people who grew up in the 70s/80s/90s on the wrong end of it what they think of it, and what emotions it evokes when they hear it, and you'll probably get a different story.

That doesn’t sum it up perfectly, sorry. The suggestion that it was used in the 80s and 90s implies that it stopped being a racist insult in the 00s and 10s, which is obviously bollocks. (It also predates the 80s but that’s not the point).

If you are saying you’re ‘just going to the paki shop’, you are being offensive and racist.

If you ‘jokingly’ ask an Asian person if their dad owns a shop on a corner, you are being racist.

Come on Pammy - you make your clever lefty baiting comments on these topics, which I’m sure keep you from boredom at work, but then these Dummies follow your lead and come out with this genuine racist nonsense.

You might have found it useful to read what I actually wrote, rather than your gaslighted interpretation of it.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:10 pm

KVN wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:24 pm

Stowaway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:08 pm

It’s all about context. In Australia the word “paki” is used fairly freely without offence, because over there it’s never been used as an insult, unlike here in the UK where it’s obviously a derogatory term.

It is also how australian slang works too.
Barbie, Footie, Coldie, Dunny, Mozzie, Rellie and so on.

You forgot Pakistani ?

Its too long, its not really an abbreviation or it would be barbquie and footballie and mosqiti

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:07 am

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:01 am

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:03 pm

In the UK in the 80s and 90s Paki was used as a catch all term for people from india, pakistan, bangladesh, etc, in hate speech, hence its racial connotations. I suspect if people only called people from pakistan paki's and never used it in an aggressive context it wouldn't be seen as racist

That sums it up pretty perfectly, thank you.

P*** is a term of abuse, shouted at you in the street or written on your home.

Unfortunately it is also used generally by some people in a non-offensive context ("just going to the p*** shop for some bread" or as so-called "banter") hence some people say nothing offensive is meant by it - and in most of these cases nothing is.

But ask people who grew up in the 70s/80s/90s on the wrong end of it what they think of it, and what emotions it evokes when they hear it, and you'll probably get a different story.

That doesn’t sum it up perfectly, sorry. The suggestion that it was used in the 80s and 90s implies that it stopped being a racist insult in the 00s and 10s, which is obviously bollocks. (It also predates the 80s but that’s not the point).

If you are saying you’re ‘just going to the paki shop’, you are being offensive and racist.

If you ‘jokingly’ ask an Asian person if their dad owns a shop on a corner, you are being racist.

Come on Pammy - you make your clever lefty baiting comments on these topics, which I’m sure keep you from boredom at work, but then these Dummies follow your lead and come out with this genuine racist nonsense.

Please don't link me to these dummies

I said the whole thing was toxic and needed calling out and that slurs linked to a person's country of origin isn't on.

I'll restate/clarify what I wrote above so that any accusations of being a racist or a dummy can at least be based on what I meant and not on Ronnie's interpretation of it.

P*** is a term of abuse. It's nasty and racist and should be called out (I thought that would have been obvious from what I wrote but apparently not)

Some people use the term P*** as an abbreviation of Pakistani, and (wrongly) assume it's ok because they equate it with other similar abbreviations, for example, Aussie -> Australian. That should also be called out - though it's my opinion some people don't see anything wrong with it because they don't equate it with an insult (or at least say they don't) - see the Azeem Rafiq case. That not to condone or excuse it but that's how it is in some instances.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:07 am The suggestion that it was used in the 80s and 90s implies that it stopped being a racist insult in the 00s and 10s, which is obviously bollocks. (It also predates the 80s but that’s not the point).

It implies nothing of the sort - but you were right that it's obviously bollocks. Racism was arguably more visible in the UK in the 70s and 80s during the era of the NF/BM/skinheads which is why I mentioned those decades as an example, that's all it was. To suggest it implies there was no racism before or after those decades is as ridiculous as the suggestion itself.

Racism existed before then, then, and now. It is evil and pernicious and I have no problem in condemning it.

That isn't what the Rafiq case shows at all. It's a glorified 'sorry if you were offended' defence where they accept an employee was racially abused but try to argue that it wasn't the intent. I really doubt anyone under the age of 50 is unaware that the term is racist.

Everyone knows that the term is racist. Everyone.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:19 pm Everyone knows that the term is racist. Everyone.

My mates on the WhatsApp don’t.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?.

Is Stani a racist term?

I worked years in BT & there were a lot Asians who worked there. Banter was rife. The younger Whites, quickly caught on to the fact that if you asked an Indian if they were Pakistani, they got offended as Indians and Pakistanis have History. So quickly all Asians were dubbed Pakis- As a maximum impact banter insult. It didn't just end there. I knew someone who was Mr McHardy. So they said: "Oh! you're a Jock" He denied Scot's heritage vehemently. Within in a couple of years his missus would ring up asking for Jock. Despite the fact I was born in Tufnell Park, I was Taff or called a sheep shagger etc etc. The Brits bore these psuedo insults stoically.
But I believe more recent migrants to UK are sensitive Souls and the banter has been dropped.
As for the Azeem Rafiq affair I listened to a lady on Radio 4 Today. Gary Ballance's apology seemed to be more sorry that he got nailed rather than sorry for any offence. Then she said:" he got called a " Zimbi or a Zimbo " but that's alright as it the same as calling someone a Limey or Taff etc "Oh!

^ anyone care to interpret the dribblings above? Not sure if I’m misreading it but it seems Clive’s blaming migrants for being sensitive to racist terms.

Happy to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood

I was called a "smooth talking Pommie b*s*a*d" by a lovely Australian lady once. I didn't take offence to the racist term Pommie or the accusation that I was born out of wedlock. But this was 1975.

BTTT - He played for Yorkshire for 10 years. If the culture was so bad, why stay? I would not have.

P… was used a lot on tv in the last century. Not long ago I saw an episode of Only Fools where Del asks Rodney to nip down the p… shop.

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:50 pm ^ anyone care to interpret the dribblings above? Not sure if I’m misreading it but it seems Clive’s blaming migrants for being sensitive to racist terms.

Happy to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood

Yes, that’s how I read it. They should be more thick skinned like him and his mate, because being called Taff, Jock, Pom* and a paki are basically the same thing.

* thank you to eliotnes for opening up and contributing the racism he has had to endure.

Clive Evans wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:55 pm
As for the Azeem Rafiq affair I listened to a lady on Radio 4 Today. Gary Ballance's apology seemed to be more sorry that he got nailed rather than sorry for any offence. Then she said:" he got called a " Zimbi or a Zimbo " but that's alright as it the same as calling someone a Limey or Taff etc "Oh!

And yes, it seems the phrase Zimbo is ok.


https://www.zimbolivenews.com/

Admin you have totally missed the point of my comments which I feel were objective rather than subjective. Just to put you straight I was pointing out, that this is a complex topic. Some people seem to take offence. Others are not bothered. I can see why some take offence, but then again I can see why some people are not bothered. In some walks of life you just have to put up with being called names. Again seemingly some commentators feel it is OK to call some groups people names ,but not to do the same for other groups. It is all bizarre.

It’s really not complex, Clive.

Clive Evans wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:21 pm In some walks of life you just have to put up with being called names.

Astounding

Clive Evans wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:21 pm Admin you have totally missed the point of my comments which I feel were objective rather than subjective. Just to put you straight I was pointing out, that this is a complex topic. Some people seem to take offence. Others are not bothered. I can see why some take offence, but then again I can see why some people are not bothered. In some walks of life you just have to put up with being called names. Again seemingly some commentators feel it is OK to call some groups people names ,but not to do the same for other groups. It is all bizarre.

Im not Racist , ive got loads of ................ mates .

Hmmmmm