Independent Leyton Orient Forum

LittleMate wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:10 pm Humans are one of the primary causes of global warming. Over time there have always been resets to the ecosystem. Famine, disease, war & natural disasters. The first three we have had under control like never before and that has been a major reason why there has been a 5 fold increase in the human population in the last 120 years. We are currently controlling (believe it or not) this Covid pandemic. The equivalent pandemic of 100 years ago, the Spanish flu, killed 20-100 million from a possible 1.8 billion. As a consequence the population grows - largely in areas that cannot afford it to grow - and so the planet suffers a burnout that will be very difficult to put right. I don't have the answer but everyone accepting a "lifestyle cut" isn't it.

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:46 pm IMHO population growth has had minimal impact on climate change. What has had impact is what those humans are doing compared to those 120 years ago. All driving petrol/diesel cars and multiple flights per year. Forestation disappearing at a rate of knots. Everybody wants climate change reversed, but aren't prepared to make the sacrifices necessary. For example I would like an electric car, but wouldn't buy one today, if it can't easily get me to the North of England and back again. Bought a new gas boiler a few months back, now I find out the're a big no no. We need a Government prepared to introduce the unpalatable legislation necessary. Won't happen until the masses switch to green parties in droves instead of handfuls.

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:46 pm IMHO population growth has had minimal impact on climate change. What has had impact is what those humans are doing compared to those 120 years ago. All driving petrol/diesel cars and multiple flights per year. Forestation disappearing at a rate of knots. Everybody wants climate change reversed, but aren't prepared to make the sacrifices necessary. For example I would like an electric car, but wouldn't buy one today, if it can't easily get me to the North of England and back again. Bought a new gas boiler a few months back, now I find out the're a big no no. We need a Government prepared to introduce the unpalatable legislation necessary. Won't happen until the masses switch to green parties in droves instead of handfuls.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:52 pm Anyone got a breakdown of which activities by percentage cause climate change?

Adz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:07 pm

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:46 pm IMHO population growth has had minimal impact on climate change. What has had impact is what those humans are doing compared to those 120 years ago. All driving petrol/diesel cars and multiple flights per year. Forestation disappearing at a rate of knots. Everybody wants climate change reversed, but aren't prepared to make the sacrifices necessary. For example I would like an electric car, but wouldn't buy one today, if it can't easily get me to the North of England and back again. Bought a new gas boiler a few months back, now I find out the're a big no no. We need a Government prepared to introduce the unpalatable legislation necessary. Won't happen until the masses switch to green parties in droves instead of handfuls.

Can your current car easily get you to the north of England and back? You've got to get fuel in the same way you've got to charge it. It's whether you're willing to sacrifice 30 minutes of your time or not?

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:14 am I'll be honest I know little about electric cars, but I believe most electric cars would have a range well under that of my current car with a full tank. Then as you say they there is the time they take to charge. If I do run out of petrol on a journey, I can use a jerry can, not so easy with an electric car. Would happily consider a hybrid.

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:14 am

Adz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:07 pm

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:46 pm IMHO population growth has had minimal impact on climate change. What has had impact is what those humans are doing compared to those 120 years ago. All driving petrol/diesel cars and multiple flights per year. Forestation disappearing at a rate of knots. Everybody wants climate change reversed, but aren't prepared to make the sacrifices necessary. For example I would like an electric car, but wouldn't buy one today, if it can't easily get me to the North of England and back again. Bought a new gas boiler a few months back, now I find out the're a big no no. We need a Government prepared to introduce the unpalatable legislation necessary. Won't happen until the masses switch to green parties in droves instead of handfuls.

Can your current car easily get you to the north of England and back? You've got to get fuel in the same way you've got to charge it. It's whether you're willing to sacrifice 30 minutes of your time or not?

I'll be honest I know little about electric cars, but I believe most electric cars would have a range well under that of my current car with a full tank. Then as you say they there is the time they take to charge. If I do run out of petrol on a journey, I can use a jerry can, not so easy with an electric car. Would happily consider a hybrid.

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:59 am

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:14 am I'll be honest I know little about electric cars, but I believe most electric cars would have a range well under that of my current car with a full tank. Then as you say they there is the time they take to charge. If I do run out of petrol on a journey, I can use a jerry can, not so easy with an electric car. Would happily consider a hybrid.

Here's a map of charging station in the UK for you https://www.zap-map.com/live/

Here's a table of the range of electric cars in the UK for you https://ev-database.uk/cheatsheet/range-electric-car

How often have you had to use a Jerry Can in your life?
How often do you drive the length of the country?
How often do you drive for 4+ hours without a break?

Bear in mind you'll be leaving home with a full tank, as unlike petrol cars you don't have to go to a petrol station.

I really don't think the limitations of electric cars are an issue for 99.9% of the population. The cost of the car and availability of charging stations is the number 1 consideration for me. They're very exxy in oz, which is puts me off, but I will run my current petrol car to the ground and in a few years time my next purchase will be electric.

o-no wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:15 am What a depressing thread. You can already see people making their minds up about who's 'fault' it is and why them taking any individual action is pointless.

'It's overpopulation' = I don't have any/many kids so it's not me
'I sometimes have to drive a long way' = I don't want to change my car/driving habits
'What are the percentages' = I'm sure I don't do much of whatever it is, so it's not me

and let's not forget the old 'it's China/India/Russia/Brazil opening coal plants/chopping down trees etc etc' chesnut = whatever I do is futile if they do nothing, so I might as well not bother.

It all boils down to 'I want someone to do something, as long as I can carry on doing whatever I like'.

It just gets me down. Many people are smart enough to realise that urgent action is required, but don't realise that THEY are part of the masses that need to do it, and they need to start doing it right now. Here's some things that anyone can do https://www.imperial.ac.uk/stories/climate-action/

But, despite all of this - our kids are utterly buggered. There are just too many people who don't understand, do understand but don't give a sh!t, are struggling with the day-to-day, or are wilfully ignoring the science for this ever to be resolved by individual actions. Politicians of all colours need to sit down together, agree to enforce unpopular policies, and do it. That's about as likely as Lionel Messi signing for the O's.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:44 am Everyone stopping eating meat would go a long way as a start.

o-no wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:07 am OK. Everyone significantly reducing the amount of red meat they eat would go a long way as a start.

Not so hard, really.

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:10 am The problem you have is the building of coal fired power stations, China 1500, India 500 and Germany 6 (from memory).

China produces more carbon dioxide in a year than we have ever produced. So the problem lies in persuading China, US and India to reduce emissions. Without that whatsoever we do is pointless.

However, if we do go ahead with our environmentalist driven dream, it will be the poorer members of our society that will suffer. The engineers need to be brought strongly into the conversation, then the government may be able to be more realistic in its aims and the economics of this.

We will need in the UK to produce twice as much electricity to get to carbon neutral. How and where are we going to get this from? How much CO2 are we going to produce to get to this point? For example
- Solar panels when made used to (I don't have current data) take more CO2 to make than they saved!

I do not know how much human involvement has affected climate, we just do not know. If you go back 300 years we eere skating on the Thames and this lasted for around 50 years. But 1800 years ago our climate was hotter than now, we were the best wine producers in Europe, when the Romans ruled us. We do not have enough data to understand how quickly climates change. The modelling has been poor to say the least (much like covid - never trust any predictions from our mathematical friends and I should know).

Our media is again only pointing in one direction. I have not heard much about who co2 is good for, good ol chlorophyll. We need a much wider and coherent conversation. If not the rich will get richer and the poorer, poorer.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:59 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:44 am Everyone stopping eating meat would go a long way as a start.

Totally unrealistic and unworkable.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:42 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:59 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:44 am Everyone stopping eating meat would go a long way as a start.

Totally unrealistic and unworkable.

You think?

Don’t get me wrong it’s not an overnight thing. But there’s soooo many factors that meat production impacts on the environment it feels like it might be something we have to adjust to soon. Or eat lab created meat to replace it.

Aside from the obvious impact of methane, food and water, transport, etc… the land it takes that could be used to replenish the environment would be monumental as well.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:44 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:42 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:59 am

Totally unrealistic and unworkable.

You think?

Don’t get me wrong it’s not an overnight thing. But there’s soooo many factors that meat production impacts on the environment it feels like it might be something we have to adjust to soon. Or eat lab created meat to replace it.

Aside from the obvious impact of methane, food and water, transport, etc… the land it takes that could be used to replenish the environment would be monumental as well.

You'll need all that land to grow your vegetables.

Second time I've asked on this thread, as a percentage, how much of an impact is meat eating having?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:56 am 97% of electricity in Scotland is produced from renewables. Well done Nicola, where there is a good leader anything is possible.

Governments can and should set enforceable targets for clean energy production, install ground heating systems, insulate properties, mandate that new builds have solar power to produce and store enough energy to run homes,railways should be nationalised and fares slashed to make it a no brainer to use them rather than a car, their should be no internal flights of 1 hour or less within the UK, all electrical products should be easily repairable, all plastic containers replaced by returnable glass, and so on.

Not many people really need a car. At any one time only 10% of them are in use. It doesn't make sense to go to the shops in a one tonne vehicle to get a loaf.

There should be a leasing system where you can use a vehicle from a local pool and access it with a credit card or code and in time summon it to your front door driverlessly.