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Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:13 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Real Al wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:04 pm
It wasn't really the norm though, just what we experienced over a relatively short period of our history. The norm is around League 1. The years you mention were our halcyon days.
Still, no reason why we can't get back to them with the right people in charge. The Club would just have to look quite a bit different to what it does today and that will likely upset people.
When I first started supporting Orient we were Div 2 (Championship). Apart from one season in Div 1 (prem) and three or for years in Div 3 (league 1). We enjoyed some 20+ odd years in the top two tiers.
For me that level of football was the norm at the time. I’m sure the exact records are around the internet. We can argue whether that constitutes relatively short. But it’s a decent stint before the decline and what I was used to.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:20 pm
by slacker
The finances of the pro game have changed utterly since we were regular fixtures in Div 2. Player wages across the board were so much lower, gate receipts were shared, and we were able to get decent experienced players for a song from bigger London neighbours to complement our home grown youngsters. Getting back up there can be done, but it’s so much tougher to break the Div 3 glass ceiling and stay there without a sugar daddy pumping in 10s of millions rather than just “a few bob”, which is what our owners contributions - generous though they are - amount to. But I’m happy with that.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:31 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:43 pm
Im from a generation where Championship/prem equivalent football was the norm.
That’s just not true. Prem football has never been the norm.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:34 pm
by gshaw
spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:27 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm
With the way even L1 football has hyped up money-wise now (reading yesterday about a player moving from that level for £7.5 million is just crazy) I think that's about our limit without another Beelzebub-esque owner gamble.
....
Who is going for that sum in L1?
Some club will be rich
It was a comment on one of the transfer rumours posts doing the rounds. At a push I'd say it was Peterborough, just Googled back through and they've turned down two bids for their top scorer this season so may have been him.
They've also just signed someone for a seven figure fee so you get the idea of how prices have inflated in L1 since we were there...
https://the72.co.uk/133381/peterborough ... sfer-deal/
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:41 pm
by Reflecto
2019 is very different to 1979 re level 2. We would need the following:-
Stadium that holds c.15k min. BR probably could grow to 12 or 13k max.
Average crowds close to 10k on entry into Championship.
A great manager and strong backing from the board
Amazing commercial set up.
Stadium is the biggest challenge. Our board would only start serious thinking once secure and performing in L1. Achievable, possibly but would need a huge effort ...
One thing at a time, but dare to dream...
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:45 pm
by RientO
Reflecto wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:41 pm
2019 is very different to 1979 re level 2. We would need the following:-
Stadium that holds c.15k min. BR probably could grow to 12 or 13k max.
Average crowds close to 10k on entry into Championship.
A great manager and strong backing from the board
Amazing commercial set up.
Stadium is the biggest challenge. Our board would only start serious thinking once secure and performing in L1. Achievable, possibly but would need a huge effort ...
One thing at a time, but dare to dream...
Hard to expand Brisbane Road. I suspect only way to get 15,000+ stadium in similar is a swap with hockey stadium in Olympic Park. Highly unlikely.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:51 pm
by Article_50
"I’m fairly confident that the worst is now behind us. I honestly can’t see us in the conference ever again (unless something catastrophic happens)" ….. Esteban
I'll go along with that, but we'll finish mid-table next season
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:41 pm
by spen666
If get drawn away at Buxton or Tow Law in FA Cup the club will reach new heights
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:52 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:31 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:43 pm
Im from a generation where Championship/prem equivalent football was the norm.
That’s just not true. Prem football has never been the norm.
Just for the hard of nitpicking. Championship was the norm and we had a season in the sun. So Championship/prem is a correct term. It’s all in the records somewhere.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:53 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
No, Championship was the norm.
Premiership was absolutely, categorically NOT the norm.
How are you even trying to argue this ffs?
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:10 pm
by Max B Gold
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:53 pm
No, Championship was the norm.
Premiership was absolutely, categorically NOT the norm.
How are you even trying to argue this ffs?
To be fair he has put Championship before prem and capitalised the C in Championship but not the p in prem.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:48 am
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:10 pm
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:53 pm
No, Championship was the norm.
Premiership was absolutely, categorically NOT the norm.
How are you even trying to argue this ffs?
To be fair he has put Championship before prem and capitalised the C in Championship but not the p in prem.
Of course I put Championship first. Everybody who supports Orient knows we had one season in the Old Div 1 and it’s pretty stupid to suggest otherwise.im certainly not. I cannot even believe this has even generated replies, nor our record of playing in the second tier. It’s all in the record books for all to see. I didn’t think it necessary to clarity the prem with (one season) and I can only assume this is being picked up on as a wind up. If not it’s stupid beyond words.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:43 am
by Horient
Agreed. Can’t believe some of the time taken by people to try and prove someone wrong on such a trivial comment that doesn’t really impact a much larger topic discussing the positive future of the club!
I think League One is the realistic best for the next 8/10 years which I would have no issue with.
Re Brisbane Road Capacity. Do you think the West Stand could hold another small tier considering that godawful void between the roof and the seats?!
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:22 am
by RientO
Horient wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:43 am
Re Brisbane Road Capacity. Do you think the West Stand could hold another small tier considering that godawful void between the roof and the seats?!
No. Cost would be prohibitive for the extra few seats. Only realistic option would be to redevelop east stand, but would cost a lot. To get 10,000+ would need to relocate.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:52 am
by CreamofSumYungGai
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... C._seasons
One season in the top flight. To suggest that is the norm is ludicrous.
We were a Div 2/ Div 3 side in the period he’s talking about. That was the norm.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:53 am
by CreamofSumYungGai
Horient wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:43 am
Agreed. Can’t believe some of the time taken by people to try and prove someone wrong on such a trivial comment that doesn’t really impact a much larger topic discussing the positive future of the club!
I think League One is the realistic best for the next 8/10 years which I would have no issue with.
Re Brisbane Road Capacity. Do you think the West Stand could hold another small tier considering that godawful void between the roof and the seats?!
I think it’s because - unsurprisingly - the poster has refused to admit they’ve got it wrong.
Re: What heights could we reaching a totally
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:44 am
by Byways1
slacker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:20 pm
The finances of the pro game have changed utterly since we were regular fixtures in Div 2. Player wages across the board were so much lower, gate receipts were shared, and we were able to get decent experienced players for a song from bigger London neighbours to complement our home grown youngsters. Getting back up there can be done, but it’s so much tougher to break the Div 3 glass ceiling and stay there without a sugar daddy pumping in 10s of millions rather than just “a few bob”, which is what our owners contributions - generous though they are - amount to. But I’m happy with that.
Correct James.
It is a totally different ball game now to what we remember in the 70s.
We had league games against Man Utd,Spurs , West Ham etc, and kept about 25% of the away gate. Tv money was spread evenly between all 92 clubs and no parachute payments.
I think people need to be realistic and accept the days of Orient holding their own as a second tier club are gone.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:04 am
by CreamofSumYungGai
It’s not that they’re gone.
It’s that things need to be different for that to happen.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:50 am
by DuvB
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:48 pm
I just want to see us play in the championship in my lifetime. Considering we were so close, it’s not unattainable.
Brentford have managed to re-establish themselves in the Championship, so why not us?
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:19 am
by Lucky7
DuvB wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:50 am
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:48 pm
I just want to see us play in the championship in my lifetime. Considering we were so close, it’s not unattainable.
Brentford have managed to re-establish themselves in the Championship, so why not us?
Exactly this every club has a chance of promotion why not Orient
I don’t remember our finances being that great in 2013/14 but we give it a damn good day
I’m with Wumble on this one
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:19 am
by Lucky7
Lucky7 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:19 am
DuvB wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:50 am
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:48 pm
I just want to see us play in the championship in my lifetime. Considering we were so close, it’s not unattainable.
Brentford have managed to re-establish themselves in the Championship, so why not us?
Exactly this every club has a chance of promotion why not Orient
I don’t remember our finances being that great in 2013/14 but we give it a damn good go
I’m with Wumble on this one
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:57 am
by Thor
I think the championship is realistic within the next 5 years with the right support afforded to the manager. I still believe that is where the O’s belong and where it should be.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:48 am
by Kitch’s Magic Toes
Thor wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:57 am
I think the championship is realistic within the next 5 years with the right support afforded to the manager. I still believe that is where the O’s belong and where it should be.
Unlike the posters on here to be living in the past... The days when a club like Orient could establish itself in the second tier are long gone. We missed the gravy train and we’re hamstrung by the abomination of a housing estate Hearn saddled us with. We don’t have a remotely level playing field to compete on and anyone who thinks that we can do so is deluding themselves with misty-eyed nostalgia.
KMT
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:56 am
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Thor wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:57 am
I think the championship is realistic within the next 5 years with the right support afforded to the manager. I still believe that is where the O’s belong and where it should be.
I would love to see us in the Championship, it may happen. It’s whether we could sustain it over a decent period of time and not drop down within a season or two of going up.
Having come form a period when watching Orient in the Championship or higher, I’ve always had dreams of reaching those heights again. But alas, I just cannot see it happening .
The biggest issue is the ground, it’s just not up to sustaining Championship football unless we have owners willing to spend, spend, spend.
Interestingly the Oxford United board have submitted plans for a new world class stadium in Oxford, not just football but other stuff too. Though it was mentioned that it would allow investment in the teams future. Sadly, Leyton Orient will be left behind as more and more clubs develop for the future, that development includes developing a modern stadium. That option I fear is beyond us so I suspect we will continue to play in a stadium devoid of the chance to improve.
We have to get used to being a L1 level club.
Re: What heights could we reach
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:01 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:48 am
Thor wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:57 am
I think the championship is realistic within the next 5 years with the right support afforded to the manager. I still believe that is where the O’s belong and where it should be.
Unlike the posters on here to be living in the past... The days when a club like Orient could establish itself in the second tier are long gone. We missed the gravy train and we’re hamstrung by the abomination of a housing estate Hearn saddled us with. We don’t have a remotely level playing field to compete on and anyone who thinks that we can do so is deluding themselves with misty-eyed nostalgia.
KMT
It’s hugely insulting to say people live in the past. Our history is a major factor for the club, because we have one and it should be celebrated. But that is not living in the past. I doubt any of us have delusions of playing in the Prem. I have repeatedly voiced my opinion that L1 is our level these days. Respect our past and accept our future. But that sort of thought process is beyond some thickos sadly.
Ambition is not living in the past but hoping for a better future.