Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:41 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:17 pm
cockhat wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:45 pm
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:27 pm "Job for life"
"Shambles"

Embarrassing post. I guess we will have to put up with idiocy like this until we turn it around, again.
Do you think that will happen this season?
Yes. Like many teams, we are inconsistent. But we've seen us have purple patches.

Sadly I don’t share your optimism.
I hope for the sake of the club you’re right!

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:19 am**

As long as we aren’t in a serious relegation battle then Ross is here to stay.

There’s no way the club will get rid of him at the moment. To be perfectly honest I’m not sure replacing him now would do much good anyway.

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:43 am**

Huxley wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:19 am As long as we aren’t in a serious relegation battle then Boss is here to stay.

There’s no way the club will get rid of him at the moment. To be perfectly honest I’m not sure replacing him now would do much good anyway.

Give him until the end of the season.
If he goes then Ling will have to follow along with his job title.

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:56 am**

Surely a 12 month rolling contract means that it is reviewed at each date and terminated if necessary. If so how can you give a 12 month pay off. If its ended 6 months into the contract does he get 6 months payoff or another 12 month amount?

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:05 am**

I have copy and pasted this from Mike Thorntons website, hopefully it may help to explain the situation with ross’s Contract.

The 12 Month Rolling Contract

This is a contract that is often mentioned in relation to managers and coaches of football clubs and is favoured because it allows a person to be employed for one season during which the fortunes of the club may change; promotion or demotion may, in the club’s eyes be tackled better with a new person in charge, for instance.

The 12 Month Fixed-term Contract is well understood by most people to be one that ends automatically when the season ends but many are confused when the word “Rolling” is included. Many users of social media have said that they interpret a 12 Month Rolling Contract to be a standard Indefinite-term contract as defined in the first section above and the notice period for either party is 12 months, rather than a more normal 30 days.

However, this is not the case: a 12 Month Rolling Contract is a 12 Month Fixed-term Contract, as defined in the second section above, that includes clauses under which each party can ask the other to renew it, or “roll it over”; either party can decide not to renew and there is no obligation on either side to pay compensation in such a case.

Thus, a typical Fixed-term Rolling Contract will normally include a date at which both parties should indicate whether they wish the contract to roll over at the termination date; this will often be set some months earlier than termination rather than being something like 30 days and allows each party sufficient time to find alternative employment or employees.
There is no limitation to what clauses can be added to such fixed-term rolling contracts and it is perfectly possible to add events such as promotion or relegation to the rollover decision.

Of course a normal Fixed-term Contract can be renewed when it ends but the benefit of the Rolling Fixed-term Contract is that both parties declare their intentions well in advance. Many a football manager/coach has been left in limbo until late in the season by indecisive club owners and Chairmen; the rolling contract helps to minimise this by allowing discussions between both parties to occur early and plans to be laid.

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:25 pm**

The question of the moment is whether you give him another year or two with "his own players" or say thanks for your efforts and give someone new a clean slate to build from.

With Ling in place it's most likely it'll be option 1 of course.

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:56 pm**

Does Embleton deserve the criticism he gets?

Gary Neville (twitter): "No"

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:46 am**

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:43 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:21 pm Boss signed his 12 month rolling contract on 7 Jan 20 so its coming up for renewal now and I'd be very surprised if a new roll over is not close to being agreed.
A rolling contract is a continuous contract not fixed.
To pay him off they will have to settle for the outstanding 12 months.

First point is correct. Second point not necessarily so. Either party may give notice to terminate a “ rolling contract” and any compensation payable as a result of termination is as agreed between the two parties. Therefore it may be that a 12 months pay off is required but it could equally be less ( or more) depending upon the agreement.

Posted: **Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:37 pm**

Still wrong wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:43 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:21 pm Boss signed his 12 month rolling contract on 7 Jan 20 so its coming up for renewal now and I'd be very surprised if a new roll over is not close to being agreed.
A rolling contract is a continuous contract not fixed.
To pay him off they will have to settle for the outstanding 12 months.

Right again.

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:25 am**

Still wrong wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:37 pm
Still wrong wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:43 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:21 pm Boss signed his 12 month rolling contract on 7 Jan 20 so its coming up for renewal now and I'd be very surprised if a new roll over is not close to being agreed.
A rolling contract is a continuous contract not fixed.
To pay him off they will have to settle for the outstanding 12 months.
Right again.

Sheer lunacy !

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:03 pm**

Ross has a job for life here, whilst the current ownership is in place

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:12 pm**

Still wrong wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:37 pm
Still wrong wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:43 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:21 pm Boss signed his 12 month rolling contract on 7 Jan 20 so its coming up for renewal now and I'd be very surprised if a new roll over is not close to being agreed.
A rolling contract is a continuous contract not fixed.
To pay him off they will have to settle for the outstanding 12 months.
Right again.

Agree, this question has been asked so many times and unless there are any special conditions attached to the R_oss contract, the correct answer would seem to be as stated in the above comment.
''A rolling contract is a continuous contract not fixed. To pay him off they will have to settle for the outstanding 12 months.''

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:20 pm**

Perpetual, like a continuous sushi belt, he just gets off at some point, like choosing the black cod.

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:09 pm**

scottychamps wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:37 pm When does Ross contract expire?
Ross is an excellent coach, really nice bloke, orient through and through, and his training sessions are excellent.
But as a manager not quite sure he is the man.
His football knowledge is so good he keeps trying to over complicate the situation and plays players out of position and asks them to do jobs that they can't do.
The best managers like Harry rednapp tells players to keep to basics.
If your a left winger you stay out wide and cross it, if your a forward stay in the box and score goals, simple.
Ross loves to play players out of positions, it's like I must have at least 3 players out of position each game.
We all know Brothy best position is left wing apart from Ross.
Ross plays him left back, in the hole number 10 or in a front 3.
It's like I can't play him where he should play that's just to easy anyone can do that.
Conor best position is centre forward, so we can't play him there, let's make things complicated and play him of the right wing.
Johnson best position is centre forward being a goal hanger, yipee Ross has kept it simple and plays him in his best position and guess what it works 15 goals+.
Let's go back to basics 442 Conor and Johnson up top with Brothy left wing Jordan right wing.
Get our full backs overlapping, crosses into the box and create chances for the front 2.
Cisse holding role to protect our donkey slow defence and jb pulling the strings in the centre.
Cisse needs to up his opta running stats, I would have him running double what he does in a game otherwise I would have him running up hainault hills in training all week.
Keep Joe at left back and get 3 new defenders in Jan cos them 3 are useless, and that will get us top 3 easy.
Job done.
UNFORTUNATELY back in the orient world, we won't get any new players in Jan, probably a cheap loan for 3 months some 19 year old that Ross won't even play, and ross will continue to play players out of position, players like Cisse going through the motions playing in 2nd gear, and we will finish around 12th.
Ross will get another 12 month contract and say its a working process and all the excusses of Covid ect ect ect.
Nigel I'm free to help Ross out anytime free of charge, wouldn't need so many first team coaches then which would free up our budget to get a new defence in for January.
Up the O's

Question for you, DJ is in his best form since playing for Guisborough in 2013 in a the NFL North (2 levels below us), CW is also doing well. Do you think Ross has anything to do with that. As for crosses how many headers has DJ scored with this season, 1 think from a corner. DJ thrives on quick play on the ground and movement (although tbh it would be interesting to see how he would fair if we had an aerial target man for him to feed off

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:21 am**

The fact that RE has a back up team of Senda , Brill. Harold and Jobi gives me the indication that he does not have the confidence to make his own decisions.Justin was a one off who did not rely on other people to make decisions.RE is a good talker and a good coach but so far has shown he does not have the qualities of being a good manager. I have been impressed by Senda with his interviews after the last 2 games. Could be a manager in the making.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:19 pm**

From a few comments from the club lately my guess is the Board realise Embleton has a lot to learn as a manager, including man management. He will be cut a lot of slack as they allow him to develop into a competent Manager able to bring about decent performances and success.

He has been given amazingly experienced assistants too. Every opportunity to succeed. He is a very lucky boy.

Short of us hovering around the relegation zone his job is as safe as most in football. Personally I feel the Board will be happy with promotion in due course, 3-5 years, if it comes earlier then happy days. So long as on the field we are competitive, top half and seen to be building stability. The long game.

A sustainable club ultimately competing well in League 1. With Embleton in charge.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:35 pm**

Is that a bad thing you've described, Dohnut?!

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:57 pm**

Dohnut (ALM) wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:19 pm From a few comments from the club lately my guess is the Board realise Embleton has a lot to learn as a manager, including man management. He will be cut a lot of slack as they allow him to develop into a competent Manager able to bring about decent performances and success.

He has been given amazingly experienced assistants too. Every opportunity to succeed. He is a very lucky boy.

Short of us hovering around the relegation zone his job is as safe as most in football. Personally I feel the Board will be happy with promotion in due course, 3-5 years, if it comes earlier then happy days. So long as on the field we are competitive, top half and seen to be building stability. The long game.

A sustainable club ultimately competing well in League 1. With Embleton in charge.

That’s fine but give him the stability of a proper contract if he is their guy.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:38 pm**

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:57 pm
Dohnut (ALM) wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:19 pm From a few comments from the club lately my guess is the Board realise Embleton has a lot to learn as a manager, including man management. He will be cut a lot of slack as they allow him to develop into a competent Manager able to bring about decent performances and success.

He has been given amazingly experienced assistants too. Every opportunity to succeed. He is a very lucky boy.

Short of us hovering around the relegation zone his job is as safe as most in football. Personally I feel the Board will be happy with promotion in due course, 3-5 years, if it comes earlier then happy days. So long as on the field we are competitive, top half and seen to be building stability. The long game.

A sustainable club ultimately competing well in League 1. With Embleton in charge.
That’s fine but give him the stability of a proper contract if he is their guy.

Listening to Ling I think he said (I don’t always get what he is saying) that with the high turnover in managers, a 12 month rolling contract is becoming more liked, it offers managers the security of 12 months money should they get sacked. Not too sure about that but Ling is the expert.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:38 pm**

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:25 am
Still wrong wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:37 pm
Still wrong wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:43 pm

A rolling contract is a continuous contract not fixed.
To pay him off they will have to settle for the outstanding 12 months.
Right again.
Sheer lunacy !

Not really.
A thoroughly sensible move by the owners.
I dare say Ross is of about 50 to 55 k. Pa plus bonuses.
Probably one of the lowest paid managers in L2.
It suits both sides.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:48 pm**

Still wrong wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:38 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:25 am
Still wrong wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:37 pm

Right again.
Sheer lunacy !
Not really.
A thoroughly sensible move by the owners.
I dare say Ross is of about 50 to 55 k. Pa plus bonuses.
Probably one of the lowest paid managers in L2.
It suits both sides.

Agree. Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of his appointment and the circumstances in which he was appointed, thinking about it, it makes sense. Certainly gives Embleton some security when taking on a job he didn’t want and didn’t feel was his skill set. And who can begrudge him that.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:58 pm**

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:21 am The fact that RE has a back up team of Senda , Brill. Harold and Jobi gives me the indication that he does not have the confidence to make his own decisions.Justin was a one off who did not rely on other people to make decisions.RE is a good talker and a good coach but so far has shown he does not have the qualities of being a good manager. I have been impressed by Senda with his interviews after the last 2 games. Could be a manager in the making.

JE also had a backup team. It included RE. I'm not sure a backroom team indicates if a manager has 'confidence to make his own decisions'.

Man City probably have 30 first team staff members. I'm pretty sure Pep isn't afraid to make the calls he has to make. You're finding a reason from nothing here.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:06 pm**

Still wrong wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:38 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:25 am
Still wrong wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:37 pm

Right again.
Sheer lunacy !
Not really.
A thoroughly sensible move by the owners.
I dare say Ross is of about 50 to 55 k. Pa plus bonuses.
Probably one of the lowest paid managers in L2.
It suits both sides.

So lunacy on the cheap is ok, the fans want success for their club not economic lunacy.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:22 pm**

Ross's record is 19 wins from 57 games, so 33.3% win ratio.
So bang average manager, but when you consider he has one of the biggest budgets in the division, and has had the luxury of having Danny Johnson, a goal scoring machine, which has undoubtedly given his win ratio a boost. without Dannys goals, we would be 23rd now
As ive said, many many times, Ross is a nice guy, but not a manager IMO

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:25 pm**

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:06 pm
Still wrong wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:38 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:25 am

Sheer lunacy !
Not really.
A thoroughly sensible move by the owners.
I dare say Ross is of about 50 to 55 k. Pa plus bonuses.
Probably one of the lowest paid managers in L2.
It suits both sides.
So lunacy on the cheap is ok, the fans want success for their club not economic lunacy.

Are you prepared to pay for it?
The lunacy is people like you who pay about £300 pa think it’s a good idea to get other people
To throw millions around so they can get a slap on the back from people like you.
You do realise that the club is haemorrhaging millions?
Would you take any notice of someone who pays £300 Pa?
I am constantly amazed that anybody would want to run a FC.
I can think of a lot better things to do with 50 k pw.

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