Independent Leyton Orient Forum

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 7:29 pm Ashmore as backup to Brill would be good

Ashmore is a considerably better keeper than Brill. Needs to lose some timber, but I’m sure that would happen under a stricter training regime.

Whitley wouldn’t be the worst replacement in the world for Koroma, who is off to bigger and better things.

Adams would improve the squad on the pitch, but I’m not sure he would fit in well in Edinburgh’s close-knit dressing room.

That’s him Sid, well if Hull are after him we’ve no chance. He does look good as a keeper, very impressed with him when Eastleigh played us.

Not quite sure why Adams is perceived to be some kind of trouble maker now.

Presumably, we had no problems with his personality or attitude fitting ours when he was our first choice signing this summer.
So therefore, people must have changed their minds simply because he refused to sign for us, which seems a little arrogant.

Anyway, I am not so sure of the case for him. Central midfield was our weakest area last season without a doubt. Ideally the nice combo to have is one tackler and one passer who have some kind of understanding going and whos skills suit one another. That has been the case in all our successful teams, ie Simpson/Easton, Chambers/Thornton, James/Vincelot.

I would prefer two new signings for central midfield, and Gorman and Clay could be back-up for those positions, as well as Jobi who could cover for several positions.

So the only way I could see Adams coming in would be if Clay was released. I don't think he would be worse, since Clay's upturn on form was never built on quality, just covering more ground on the pitch and putting in some tackles. But given that Clay did OK someone would have to be significantly better to take his place and I don't think Adams is that.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 7:39 am Not quite sure why Adams is perceived to be some kind of trouble maker now.

Presumably, we had no problems with his personality or attitude fitting ours when he was our first choice signing this summer.
So therefore, people must have changed their minds simply because he refused to sign for us, which seems a little arrogant.

Anyway, I am not so sure of the case for him. Central midfield was our weakest area last season without a doubt. Ideally the nice combo to have is one tackler and one passer who have some kind of understanding going and whos skills suit one another. That has been the case in all our successful teams, ie Simpson/Easton, Chambers/Thornton, James/Vincelot.

I would prefer two new signings for central midfield, and Gorman and Clay could be back-up for those positions, as well as Jobi who could cover for several positions.

So the only way I could see Adams coming in would be if Clay was released. I don't think he would be worse, since Clay's upturn on form was never built on quality, just covering more ground on the pitch and putting in some tackles. But given that Clay did OK someone would have to be significantly better to take his place and I don't think Adams is that.

''Not quite sure why Adams is perceived to be some kind of trouble maker now.

Presumably, we had no problems with his personality or attitude fitting ours when he was our first choice signing this summer.
So therefore, people must have changed their minds simply because he refused to sign for us, which seems a little arrogant.''

Very good point well made. Yes completely correct, if he was that much of a problem off the field, then of course we would not have been trying to sign him in the summer.
I would think that the reason he did not join us was that it was more like a case of a young player listening too much to the advice given to him by his agent. Also the location of Ebbsfleet football club is apparently very near to where Adams lives. Added to that, the prospects of the Ebbsfleet FC were talked up a lot, e.g rich investors, they had got into the play-offs in the 2017-2018 season and also not sure but I think I can remember there was talk on this forum that Adams agent was maybe also the agent of the Ebbsfleet head coach, if true, then that could have been another factor as to why he chose that club over the Os. Anyway he did so well here first time round, is young fit and has plenty of energy, so many including myself would like to see him back again. Time will tell if that does happen but at present does not seem very likely because of the problems that happened last summer.

If Ebbsfleet do balance the books and even if the canny Hill stays as gaffer (not a given at this point), do you reckon they’d stay up next season? Can’t see them surviving above NL South level myself.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 8:05 am.''

Very good point well made. Yes completely correct, if he was that much of a problem off the field, then of course we would not have been trying to sign him in the summer.
I would think that the reason he did not join us was that it was more like a case of a young player listening too much to the advice given to him by his agent. Also the location of Ebbsfleet football club is apparently very near to where Adams lives. Added to that, the prospects of the Ebbsfleet FC were talked up a lot, e.g rich investors, they had got into the play-offs in the 2017-2018 season and also not sure but I think I can remember there was talk on this forum that Adams agent was maybe also the agent of the Ebbsfleet head coach, if true, then that could have been another factor as to why he chose that club over the Os. Anyway he did so well here first time round, is young fit and has plenty of energy, so many including myself would like to see him back again. Time will tell if that does happen but at present does not seem very likely because of the problems that happened last summer.

Yes, let's do this one again.

Adams was given a deadline by Orient. Adams didn't want to commit by that date. We therefore withdraw the offer and brought in Gorman instead.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Adams does come back.
He's 'a known quantity' playing-wise and he never let the side down. I think that he was happy here, well liked and valued. I suspect that his head was turned by an agent who had a vested interest in moving him on.
Adams made a mistake and is probably regretting it. I don't believe that there was any animosity over his departure, just disappointment.
When all said and done, he's a professional footballer and a good one at that.
In my opinion, a second stint here isn't out of the question.

Where has this agent talk come from in regards to Adams? It's rubbish.

A lot was made of the fact that he had the same agent as McMahon. I agree, that's probably tosh, more likely that he rejected an offer before our deadline because he thought he could get a gig in football league, then had to resort to Ebbsfleet when that didn't materialise. He also spoke really highly of Justin after he signed for them.

The only things that could stop him coming back are Lingy and Edinburghs pride or Ebou being put off by the stick he's received from our 'fans' since.

I'm hopeful we can do something.

Or that he might not be first choice here?
I do think he could go somewhere like Barnet and take a pay cut but also be an important player. I don't think we would have the same reliance on him now.

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 7:29 pm Ashmore as backup to Brill would be good

Adams and his ambition can stay in the NL, see how long he makes his next club wait for a decision now he's being released.

Like Ashmore is going to move on and sit on someones bench in L2 he's better than that,it's also a complete waste of playing budget having two senior keepers. I'm happy with Brill who was brilliant for us last season, Sarge on the bench is fine but if Brill was injured we could get a short/long term loan, lots of good keepers out there. I can't see Adams signing for us I wouldn't be against it, but I agree it would be difficult for him going back into the dressing room after his comments last season when he joined the Fleet.

We are interested in signing Matthew Stevens a young striker from Peterborough who is being released despite having a good strike rate for their academy and reserve sides, Stevenage are also interested.

I don't actually think he said anything bad. He actually said we offered more money but they showed more patience, he had a good time here and Edinburgh looked after him. He wanted to play in the Football League, and since they had gone into the playoffs last year, he was probably entitled to think he could help them go one better. I don't recall a dig at us, aside from the 'behind the scenes' comment. Which probably had some merit seeing as we changed our approach after.

I do seem to remember Pridmore making up a quite funny fake article about him signing because they had more ambition, had better team spirit, was closer to home,and people ended up believing it because it fits the agenda. I think he ended up removing it because even he did not anticipate how gullible some fans were. Even to this day if you look at Twitter some of them evidently believe it was real.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 12:32 pm I don't actually think he said anything bad. He actually said we offered more money but they showed more patience, he had a good time here and Edinburgh looked after him. He wanted to play in the Football League, and since they had gone into the playoffs last year, he was probably entitled to think he could help them go one better. I don't recall a dig at us, aside from the 'behind the scenes' comment. Which probably had some merit seeing as we changed our approach after.

I do seem to remember Pridmore making up a quite funny fake article about him signing because they had more ambition, had better team spirit, was closer to home,and people ended up believing it because it fits the agenda. I think he ended up removing it because even he did not anticipate how gullible some fans were. Even to this day if you look at Twitter some of them evidently believe it was real.

How did we change our approach?

I thought the whole "things going on behind the scenes" thing was an unnecessary cheap dig to be honest, a vague comment to lead us to believe he was in some way wronged during his time at the club. If it was a case of he wanted more time and we couldn't wait that's fine, Crewe have have just withdrawn a contract offer to thier goalkeeper because he wouldn't give them an indication of signing or not if you have players being lined up as possible replacements it has a knock on effect, Crewe obviously have targets they want to secure before they are snapped up elsewhere, and perhaps we felt the same about Adams.

Dont need Adams, we can do better now. He made his choice. Like Ashmore but we have Brill so not needed. Sign up Cheek and Whitely.

A younger, more mobile keeper with Brill as cover and back to coaching is definitely the way to go.

Top of the West. wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 1:18 pm

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 12:32 pm I don't actually think he said anything bad. He actually said we offered more money but they showed more patience, he had a good time here and Edinburgh looked after him. He wanted to play in the Football League, and since they had gone into the playoffs last year, he was probably entitled to think he could help them go one better. I don't recall a dig at us, aside from the 'behind the scenes' comment. Which probably had some merit seeing as we changed our approach after.

I do seem to remember Pridmore making up a quite funny fake article about him signing because they had more ambition, had better team spirit, was closer to home,and people ended up believing it because it fits the agenda. I think he ended up removing it because even he did not anticipate how gullible some fans were. Even to this day if you look at Twitter some of them evidently believe it was real.

How did we change our approach?

I thought the whole "things going on behind the scenes" thing was an unnecessary cheap dig to be honest, a vague comment to lead us to believe he was in some way wronged during his time at the club. If it was a case of he wanted more time and we couldn't wait that's fine, Crewe have have just withdrawn a contract offer to thier goalkeeper because he wouldn't give them an indication of signing or not if you have players being lined up as possible replacements it has a knock on effect, Crewe obviously have targets they want to secure before they are snapped up elsewhere, and perhaps we felt the same about Adams.

We stopped with the hardball deadline take it or leave it approach.

I understand why we did what we did with regards to a deadline, although we've not come out on our side and said that - Lings story was that he turned us down because he wanted to play league football, not because we'd put a time limit on it. Ebous story was that we wanted him to commit early doors.

Yes, that is correct. seem to remember Teague saying that for the striker signing we would have to wait for him to talk to League clubs first. Had we called this bluff with Adams he would have come back with his tail between his legs.

There was no real need to impose a deadline, but we make mistakes and we correct them. Like we did with Steve Davis.

Sure clubs have a need to know, but the fella we had as the next choice was literally a guy with only one good leg at the time, not as if clubs would be desperate to sign him.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm Yes, that is correct. seem to remember Teague saying that for the striker signing we would have to wait for him to talk to League clubs first. Had we called this bluff with Adams he would have come back with his tail between his legs.

There was no real need to impose a deadline, but we make mistakes and we correct them. Like we did with Steve Davis.

Sure clubs have a need to know, but the fella we had as the next choice was literally a guy with only one good leg at the time, not as if clubs would be desperate to sign him.

I know things get lost in this saga, but how do we know that there was a deadline?

Adams can do one. Surprised people wouldn't mind him coming back, given that he messed the club around for ages, before rejecting us because "Ebbsfleet are more ambitious." He's a w*nker in my book.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 3:14 pm

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm Yes, that is correct. seem to remember Teague saying that for the striker signing we would have to wait for him to talk to League clubs first. Had we called this bluff with Adams he would have come back with his tail between his legs.

There was no real need to impose a deadline, but we make mistakes and we correct them. Like we did with Steve Davis.

Sure clubs have a need to know, but the fella we had as the next choice was literally a guy with only one good leg at the time, not as if clubs would be desperate to sign him.

I know things get lost in this saga, but how do we know that there was a deadline?

Oh, man.

orienfan64920 wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 3:19 pm Adams can do one. Surprised people wouldn't mind him coming back, given that he messed the club around for ages, before rejecting us because "Ebbsfleet are more ambitious." He's a w anchor in my book.

^

This is the sort of reason I can imagine Adams not fancying a return. I know we only have a minority like this but they're a vocal minority, sadly.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm Yes, that is correct. seem to remember Teague saying that for the striker signing we would have to wait for him to talk to League clubs first. Had we called this bluff with Adams he would have come back with his tail between his legs.

There was no real need to impose a deadline, but we make mistakes and we correct them. Like we did with Steve Davis.

Sure clubs have a need to know, but the fella we had as the next choice was literally a guy with only one good leg at the time, not as if clubs would be desperate to sign him.

I fully understand the need for a deadline. But the 23rd of May or whenever it was? That's ridiculous.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 2:25 pm

Top of the West. wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 1:18 pm

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 12:32 pm I don't actually think he said anything bad. He actually said we offered more money but they showed more patience, he had a good time here and Edinburgh looked after him. He wanted to play in the Football League, and since they had gone into the playoffs last year, he was probably entitled to think he could help them go one better. I don't recall a dig at us, aside from the 'behind the scenes' comment. Which probably had some merit seeing as we changed our approach after.

I do seem to remember Pridmore making up a quite funny fake article about him signing because they had more ambition, had better team spirit, was closer to home,and people ended up believing it because it fits the agenda. I think he ended up removing it because even he did not anticipate how gullible some fans were. Even to this day if you look at Twitter some of them evidently believe it was real.

How did we change our approach?

I thought the whole "things going on behind the scenes" thing was an unnecessary cheap dig to be honest, a vague comment to lead us to believe he was in some way wronged during his time at the club. If it was a case of he wanted more time and we couldn't wait that's fine, Crewe have have just withdrawn a contract offer to thier goalkeeper because he wouldn't give them an indication of signing or not if you have players being lined up as possible replacements it has a knock on effect, Crewe obviously have targets they want to secure before they are snapped up elsewhere, and perhaps we felt the same about Adams.

We stopped with the hardball deadline take it or leave it approach.

I understand why we did what we did with regards to a deadline, although we've not come out on our side and said that - Lings story was that he turned us down because he wanted to play league football, not because we'd put a time limit on it. Ebous story was that we wanted him to commit early doors.

So the crux of that is we don't really know the truth. We don't know if other players were given deadlines do we? Perhaps the club could have been more forthcoming as to why he didn't sign at the time but why doubt Ling if he said that's what his agent told him. I suspect it's not black and white and the truth lies somewhere in between. I doubt we would sign him now seems to be too much water under the bridge. I'm told his form was sporadic last season so he may not have turned out to be the signing everyone thought he was going to be, we move on and hopefully a couple of decent midfield players on the way this summer.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 3:26 pm

orienfan64920 wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 3:19 pm Adams can do one. Surprised people wouldn't mind him coming back, given that he messed the club around for ages, before rejecting us because "Ebbsfleet are more ambitious." He's a w anchor in my book.

^

This is the sort of reason I can imagine Adams not fancying a return. I know we only have a minority like this but they're a vocal minority, sadly.

Yeah, Adams is going to base his career decisions off of opinions on an internet forum.

Besides, we should be looking at players who have had more than a decent season at NLS, a good 4 months at NL and an average season at NL regardless of how good they were for us. If he hadn't have played for us, and we signed him, people would be understandably disappointed.