Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:34 am**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:23 pm Surely some sort of compromise would be best for all? Although this may mean hotdesking which doesnt seem like an option while covid is about.

My company moved to this a few years ago and have generally been great with flexible working (number of days employees wish to work from home, which of our offices we work from and variations to standard office hours). Having to go back to fixed desks means there won't be enough desks for all anyway. Reckon we will close at least one of our London offices and require staff to work from home more regularly.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:51 am**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:34 am
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:23 pm Surely some sort of compromise would be best for all? Although this may mean hotdesking which doesnt seem like an option while covid is about.
My company moved to this a few years ago and have generally been great with flexible working (number of days employees wish to work from home, which of our offices we work from and variations to standard office hours). Having to go back to fixed desks means there won't be enough desks for all anyway. Reckon we will close at least one of our London offices and require staff to work from home more regularly.

How do you feel about that?

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:55 am**

Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:51 am
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:34 am
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:23 pm Surely some sort of compromise would be best for all? Although this may mean hotdesking which doesnt seem like an option while covid is about.
My company moved to this a few years ago and have generally been great with flexible working (number of days employees wish to work from home, which of our offices we work from and variations to standard office hours). Having to go back to fixed desks means there won't be enough desks for all anyway. Reckon we will close at least one of our London offices and require staff to work from home more regularly.
How do you feel about that?

Not great as I'd prefer going into the office regularly further down the line. But we are now owned by venture capitalists who have thus far shown they are more interested in money than employees and this will be a chance for them to cut costs at a time when they've refused to allow employees to put in expense claims for desks, monitors and chairs to work at home.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:57 am**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:55 am
Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:51 am
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:34 am

My company moved to this a few years ago and have generally been great with flexible working (number of days employees wish to work from home, which of our offices we work from and variations to standard office hours). Having to go back to fixed desks means there won't be enough desks for all anyway. Reckon we will close at least one of our London offices and require staff to work from home more regularly.
How do you feel about that?
Not great as I'd prefer going into the office regularly further down the line. But we are now owned by venture capitalists who have thus far shown they are more interested in money than employees and this will be a chance for them to cut costs at a time when they've refused to allow employees to put in expense claims for desks, monitors and chairs to work at home.

Fair enough. The current crisis will be a great boon for the cost-cutters to do their work.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:22 am**

For me there are plus sides to working from home (as I have been throughout the pandemic) - extra £600 notes a month in my sky rocket for example, but not gonna lie, I miss the interaction - office bants isnt the same over Slack or Zoom, plus working in a small home office everyday is bringing on a bit of cabin fever, I used to go up to other departments to get things sorted, not sure i'd want this to become my working normal as I think i'd like to go back to the office ASAP, but my work have said that wont happen until at least October, and even that depends on September data, so if it spikes up i'll be home longer

Great financially, but not great for me as a person

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:52 am**

Jaggsy1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:22 am For me there are plus sides to working from home (as I have been throughout the pandemic) - extra £600 notes a month in my sky rocket for example, but not gonna lie, I miss the interaction - office bants isnt the same over Slack or Zoom, plus working in a small home office everyday is bringing on a bit of cabin fever, I used to go up to other departments to get things sorted, not sure i'd want this to become my working normal as I think i'd like to go back to the office ASAP, but my work have said that wont happen until at least October, and even that depends on September data, so if it spikes up i'll be home longer

Great financially, but not great for me as a person

Yep concur with this reckon a lot of companies will make a lot of their employees work from home part time as a compromise.

Before this happened was offered to work at home full time coming into the office once a month said that I didn't want to do that and was quite happy just doing three days a week at home as i needed the social interaction.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:24 am**

I've been working from home since mid-March and could happily do this full time. I love the social aspect of the office, but is that really worth 2 hours of driving a day? I get more sleep now, save more money, and I have more control over my work than ever before. The 9-5 rat race is exhausting and a change in office culture was long overdue.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:29 pm**

Having staff work from home has long been thought of as a good solution to rising office costs, but those that tried it found some problems. Firstly many people find a commute even a short one, is needed for them to switch between 'home mode' and 'work mode', getting your head right to be able to start work effectively. To do this in the time between washing up breakfast and turning the computer on is difficut for some. This led to some 'Village Business Hubs' being set up, a sort of half way house with serviced office rooms for rent. It was found that older, more experienced staff were the best able to cope with this. Generally they had older children, or none left at home leaving peace and quiet to work in.

This led to problems though, if you take out experience you lose wisdom, who have you left who has 'been there, done that, sorted it'. Those quirky little things that pop up now and then that there is no rational answer to. Another thing is how do you train new staff when all your more experienced staff are at home? Technology is now much better than in the past and because of the lockdown many more people are used to using it. Shares in Zoom must be in orbit.

Mikero

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:20 pm**

For me, office culture has been changing for last 20 years, and it the last 5 pretty non-existent. At the turn of the century, teams worked together in the same office. Nowadays, most colleagues are based in India and USA. And those that are in the UK, work elsewhere. I have had line managers I never met. All the office is to me is a hot desk where I sit next to someone I don’t work with being pretty obnoxious stuffing themselves silly with stinking food or throwing the bags they had on the floor of the underground over half my desk. And snot snorters.

The commute is now a total nightmare and I only have negotiate 3 stops on the central line and the dlr. Phones in your face, women doing their make up within inches of my suit, more stinking food and the summer BO. When I moved to E11 almost 30 years ago, I could get a seat all the way to Notting Hill.

I suspect that many having been forced to work from home and having got the desks, chairs, monitors and other equipment won’t ever bother going back.

The point about older people being more able to work from home is very true (except for dog owners). The number of calls I have now with kids screaming in the background.

I will retire before I go back to the way things were.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:09 pm**

StillSpike wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:37 pm
Adz wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:01 pm Sounds like buying shares in companies who rent a lot of floor space will be a good option. They'll save millions a year on it and the corresponding expenses
Just get shares in pornhub.

They’re not a publicly traded company, sadly. Would have been a great investment otherwise as its traffic must have skyrocketed during lockdown

Personally I love remote working and if you have a suitable office space at home it’s a no-brainer. Save on travel time and costs, eat home cooked food 3x a day rather than some overpriced barely filling salad and don’t have to speak to people you find annoying.

I get the point about missing office banter, but I find I’ve only got on with past colleagues because I had to, not because we were really good friends. In my last job people were freakishly quiet and weirdos would look at you funny for daring to talk at your desk.

I’ve also come across a sizeable number of people who are unsatisfied with their working situation and waste your time chatting to you while trying to drag you down to their level, so I’m glad I don’t have to see them anymore.

All of this is a big reason why I’ve gone self-employed tbh. Much prefer doing stuff on my own terms and cutting out unnecessary sh*t from my life

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:56 am**

JimbO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:52 am
Jaggsy1979 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:22 am For me there are plus sides to working from home (as I have been throughout the pandemic) - extra £600 notes a month in my sky rocket for example, but not gonna lie, I miss the interaction - office bants isnt the same over Slack or Zoom, plus working in a small home office everyday is bringing on a bit of cabin fever, I used to go up to other departments to get things sorted, not sure i'd want this to become my working normal as I think i'd like to go back to the office ASAP, but my work have said that wont happen until at least October, and even that depends on September data, so if it spikes up i'll be home longer

Great financially, but not great for me as a person
Yep concur with this reckon a lot of companies will make a lot of their employees work from home part time as a compromise.

Before this happened was offered to work at home full time coming into the office once a month said that I didn't want to do that and was quite happy just doing three days a week at home as i needed the social interaction.

The other thing is that we're only 4 and a bit months into this.working from home where possible routine. Who knows how people will generally feel after 8-12 months.

Not looking forward to working from home in winter in particular when there is less light and finishing work in the dark/going for post work walks not as appealing as now. Also no central heating costs in our flat so going to need to keep two rooms electrically heated all day which will cost a fair bit.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:36 am**

Most of the people I've spoken to prefer to work from home because they don't put in half the hours ,save on fares and have more time to themselves and thier family

not a problem for me as I'm retired from giving out parking fines

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:50 am**

I'm really enjoying working from home. The vast of majority of my work (IT) can be done remotely and I'm more productive on my own machine with its very loud mechanical keyboard I'd never get away with having in the office

Don't miss the commute one bit and Teams has been great for keeping in contact with the rest of the guys in the office. As mentioned above getting more sleep and actually ending up doing an extra bit of work at end of the day where I'd normally be bolting out the office to beat the traffic. Win-win.

The risk of WfH is a year or two down the line when companies realise that a remote UK worker can be replaced with a remote Indian worker at a fraction of the cost. It'll be the great outsourcing debate going full circle again.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:58 am**

My company had already been pushing for big changes to the office environment, some of them just plain weird (garden shed like mini meeting spaces), but behind it is the idea that staff don’t have their own desks, just lockers, pick up equipment & belongings every time they leave and plonk down somewhere else post meeting/ lunch/ start of day, and out of all that will come significantly increased home working, which will of course save the company plenty of money in accommodation.

In the currently shelved during covid plans, it did seem to rely on the desks that will be there in the new world, around all these wonderfully relaxing open spaces and meandering streams (ok I’m joking on that one), were somewhat packed together like sardines, and that certainly doesn’t hold up in the days of social distancing.

Having worked from home since 19th March, company has been pretty impressive I have to say re doing all it can to ensure safety for the few who do still have to go in, and they’re in no rush to get us back in the office. So it’ll naturally follow on that there will be lots more encouragement of working from home post covid, and I for one will take the opportunity – working in IT we often do it anyway, often no real need for us to be there, and with much outsourcing to India of jobs, we’re used to Skype/ Microsoft Teams meetings anyway. Reckon I easily clear £200 per month savings, fuel/ car parking/ lunchtime spends on food, 70 mins a day travel time savings too, life is much more relaxing. It of course works far better for a team such as mine who all know each other well anyway, may be a bit more of a challenge for those who know each other less well to establish the working relationships without the face to face. But it's the way it's going and accelerated by lockdown.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:00 am**

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:50 am The risk of WfH is a year or two down the line when companies realise that a remote UK worker can be replaced with a remote Indian worker at a fraction of the cost. It'll be the great outsourcing debate going full circle again.

Hadn't considered this but a valid point. Guess rules will be put in place to prevent this.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:03 am**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:00 am
gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:50 am The risk of WfH is a year or two down the line when companies realise that a remote UK worker can be replaced with a remote Indian worker at a fraction of the cost. It'll be the great outsourcing debate going full circle again.
Hadn't considered this but a valid point. Guess rules will be put in place to prevent this.

You'd like to think so but depends if those holding shares in outsourcing companies are the ones making the rules. Me, cynical? Never

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:10 am**

Returning to a regular office routine would be further complicated by the fact that my work shirts have all shrunk slightly whilst hanging in the wardrobe for so long.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:11 am**

I'd never been a fan of homeworking as there was always something that you couldn't do.

Having now been forced into homeworking for the last 5 months I must concede that that has been resolved for the most part and I can pretty much do a 100% of my job and most of my departments roles from home.

The firm has said we won't be going back until September and even then it'll probably only be for a day in the office each week. If you're comfortable with it.

Personally I'm gagging to get back to the office as I don't use public transport and to have a workspace setup just how I like it in a mostly empty office space would be absolute bliss.

Mentally I must say that 2020 has been the most difficult (work wise) in my 22 years of working. My two kids (aged between 4-6) have suffered because we haven't been able to educate them. I feel for them in that their education is based on kids TV / tablets / laptops. And we'd shielded them from such technologies up until April this year. We've tried homeschooling but it's just impossible. They used to love books and going out, now it's laptops, TV and streaming. They're kids but look like mini versions of working people. The firm haven't been pressuring us to do anything different to normal but it's hard to sit at a chair for 8 hours in the kitchen, flip your laptop shut and then sit at the same chair for dinner, etc. The days just roll by.

At the moment I can see us going back to work with a 60/40 split of the week, two days in and three out of the office or vice versa.

Just an edit to say that the firm have been top notch, counselling sessions, no pressure to go back, work when you can and all that.

Fact of the matter though is that as humans I think we miss what we don't have. I've been packed into a relatively small house with the wife and kids for since mid march. And I can't wait for a bit of isolation. Would love a month on a desert island. Other homeworkers living alone can't wait to see someone.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:17 am**

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:11 am I'd never been a fan of homeworking as there was always something that you couldn't do.

Having now been forced into homeworking for the last 5 months I must concede that that has been resolved for the most part and I can pretty much do a 100% of my job and most of my departments roles from home.

The firm has said we won't be going back until September and even then it'll probably only be for a day in the office each week. If you're comfortable with it.

Personally I'm gagging to get back to the office as I don't use public transport and to have a workspace setup just how I like it in a mostly empty office space would be absolute bliss.

Mentally I must say that 2020 has been the most difficult (work wise) in my 22 years of working. My two kids (aged between 4-6) have suffered because we haven't been able to educate them. I feel for them in that their education is based on kids TV / tablets / laptops. And we'd shielded them from such technologies up until April this year. We've tried homeschooling but it's just impossible. They used to love books and going out, now it's laptops, TV and streaming. They're kids but look like mini versions of working people. The firm haven't been pressuring us to do anything different to normal but it's hard to sit at a chair for 8 hours in the kitchen, flip your laptop shut and then sit at the same chair for dinner, etc. The days just roll by.

At the moment I can see us going back to work with a 60/40 split of the week, two days in and three out of the office or vice versa.

Just an edit to say that the firm have been top notch, counselling sessions, no pressure to go back, work when you can and all that.

Fact of the matter though is that as humans I think we miss what we don't have. I've been packed into a relatively small house with the wife and kids for since mid march. And I can't wait for a bit of isolation. Would love a month on a desert island. Other homeworkers living alone can't wait to see someone.

You have my sympathy re home education/ schooling. My son’s at uni so I’m beyond that, but it’s noticeable amongst friends and colleagues at work that those who have pre-school kids or have had to take on the schooling tend to be far less keen on home working than the rest of us.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:47 am**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:56 amThe other thing is that we're only 4 and a bit months into this.working from home where possible routine. Who knows how people will generally feel after 8-12 months.

Not looking forward to working from home in winter in particular when there is less light and finishing work in the dark/going for post work walks not as appealing as now. Also no central heating costs in our flat so going to need to keep two rooms electrically heated all day which will cost a fair bit.

Going to the office in winter is sh*t too though. The winter commute is just as bad if not worse than the summer commute. Getting on a soaked bus or tube with umbrellas dripping everywhere, stinking of damp and people sniffling and coughing in your face, which in the current climate is gonna make everyone even more on edge.

Nah mate, you’re alright.

Just slope off for a 10-minute stroll every hour when you don’t have a meeting/call. No-one will notice

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:33 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:50 am The risk of WfH is a year or two down the line when companies realise that a remote UK worker can be replaced with a remote Indian worker at a fraction of the cost.

Given pretty much every software developer and most of the operations staff I work with are in India, I am sure companies will be looking at other roles. I was replaced by 3 offshore workers when I moved out of software development about 4 years ago. And it was cheaper.

The way London based workers can keep their jobs is to have local knowledge that isn't easily obtained from afar. Luckily, I now have a role that is pretty UK centric, but that wouldn't stop someone elsewhere in England obtaining the same knowhow and undercutting me.

Fortunately, I can afford to retire with a half decent pension.

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:03 pm**

Thankfully my job will require me to be on site at least half the time, so hopefully my job will be protected. I'd be happy with that compromise.

I have found that the people who were WFH cynics are now reluctant to go back.

Posted: **Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:49 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:03 pm I have found that the people who were WFH cynics are now reluctant to go back.

That's me. Having to travel on public transport and queuing for an hour to get a lift up to and down from 26th floor twice a day gives me little incentive.

If I could drive, park at the office and have my own desk on the ground floor, I probably would go back.

Posted: **Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:36 am**

Came across this article, which is well written and sums up what I think a lot of ex-commuters are feeling: https://unherd.com/2020/09/the-commuters-are-revolting/

I get a strong sense from my daily conversations with colleagues that the adjustments, as painful as it will be, is happening.

Posted: **Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:13 am**

Been working from home since March, and it's gone okay overall.

From Monday, the company are getting 50% of the office in on Mon/Tues/Weds, with the rest doing Thurs/Fri, then reversing the following week.
Been enjoyable overall to WFH as no petrol costs/commute etc, but I'd be lying to myself if I didn't say there's been days when I've been lazy, in a way that I wouldn't dream of being in the office.
Also, meetings, although okay on Zoom, just don't have the same resonance as a face to face affair I think.

I'm rota'd to go in next Thurs/Fri, but also been told I can WFH "whenever I want", so there's a few contradictions in there too.

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