Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:48 am**

Appointment of a new AM would make us 'seem' a bit over-burdened in that area imo

I'm sure (though could be wrong), that in the days of Slade, it was simply him and Nuge that dealt with the playing side, plus a physio and Ada.
Best to keep it simple.

We are L2 - as a player, I'm not sure I'd welcome half a dozen blokes on the training ground barking at me. No wonder the playing budget seems tight with the myriad of staff we seem to have all over the shop - Manchester United we ain't. Would rather see these costs going into the playing side personally.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:38 am**

It does seem a little strange with RE, Jobi & Dean Brill on the staff. Why not promote one of them. Even odder when we have let go the ast groundsman, head of marketing & sports scientist. To make the club more sustainable i would have thought we have enough coaches

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:51 am**

And the goalkeeping coach, but I suppose Brill will now revert back leaving Ross and Jobi, so perhaps an assistant is needed especially if Jobi wants to concentrate on playing. NT confirmed that Lawless is coming back

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:52 am**

If an experienced assistant does come in, IMO it can only be seen as a manager-in-waiting in case Embleton isn't up to the job.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:58 am**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:43 am It would be difficult to get an experienced ass. manager in the building
The unlucky man would have to kowtow to Ling, because its probably been noticed, anyone who dares to have a different opinion from Ling, is out on their arse
Remember Fletcher & Webb, for example?

Fletcher had a different opinion to everyone, even himself. What he promised at interview what not what he began to deliver. Travis and Ling both told us that.

Form the little we know about Webb's departure, he had major differences of opinion to Embleton and others - he became difficult.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:17 am**

similar to the civil service years ago , recruit as many people as possible and then the blame can be deflected from the hierarchy and decision makers.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 am**

Assuming we are after an Assistant Head Coach and the whole story isn't a load of Bow Locks.

Why do seemingly really clever and sensible people like Nigel, Kent, Marshall and Matt Porter struggle with this Manager / Coach structure?

To me it seems blindingly obvious. Whilst we've been stable as a club we've had success under two proper managers (Slade and Edinburgh). We've had failings under Head Coaches (Davis, Embleton and Fletcher).

Why are we trying to fix something that isn't really broken? We have all the pieces, let's just put them in the right order.

Manager - Challinor / Tisdale / Adkins / Clough / Hill / Lee Johnson / Chris Powell
Assistant Manager or Head Coach - Ross Embleton
Coaches - Jobi, Brill, Lawless, Harrold, and then however many more we need or the budget dictates

A manager manages, leads and inspires both the players and the fans. A coach coaches the players to maximise their potential. It's not difficult is it.

What has surprised me is the amount of decent managers out there at the moment. I'd take any of them on my list up there and if the truth be told I'd rather lob £3k a week at one of those guys than at trying to keep Sotiriou.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:24 am**

KC & sunshine band wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:17 am similar to the civil service years ago , recruit as many people as possible and then the blame can be deflected from the hierarchy and decision makers.

Ling is an absolute disaster of a DoF

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:34 am**

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 am Assuming we are after an Assistant Head Coach and the whole story isn't a load of Bow Locks.

Why do seemingly really clever and sensible people like Nigel, Kent, Marshall and Matt Porter struggle with this Manager / Coach structure?

To me it seems blindingly obvious. Whilst we've been stable as a club we've had success under two proper managers (Slade and Edinburgh). We've had failings under Head Coaches (Davis, Embleton and Fletcher).

Why are we trying to fix something that isn't really broken? We have all the pieces, let's just put them in the right order.

Manager - Challinor / Tisdale / Adkins / Clough / Hill / Lee Johnson / Chris Powell
Assistant Manager or Head Coach - Ross Embleton
Coaches - Jobi, Brill, Lawless, Harrold, and then however many more we need or the budget dictates

A manager manages, leads and inspires both the players and the fans. A coach coaches the players to maximise their potential. It's not difficult is it.

What has surprised me is the amount of decent managers out there at the moment. I'd take any of them on my list up there and if the truth be told I'd rather lob £3k a week at one of those guys than at trying to keep Sotiriou.

I think the reason is because they try to apply big business logic to the way a football team is run when it's just not the right way to do it.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:34 am**

You obviously know that is just completely over the top rubbish. He has had 3 seasons. Season one he built a team in a few weeks, season two much of that team finished as champions in a notoriously competitive league, season three we've been mostly poor. If he can keep up one promotion every three years i'll take that disaster.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:36 am**

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 am Assuming we are after an Assistant Head Coach and the whole story isn't a load of Bow Locks.

Why do seemingly really clever and sensible people like Nigel, Kent, Marshall and Matt Porter struggle with this Manager / Coach structure?

To me it seems blindingly obvious. Whilst we've been stable as a club we've had success under two proper managers (Slade and Edinburgh). We've had failings under Head Coaches (Davis, Embleton and Fletcher).

Why are we trying to fix something that isn't really broken? We have all the pieces, let's just put them in the right order.

Manager - Challinor / Tisdale / Adkins / Clough / Hill / Lee Johnson / Chris Powell
Assistant Manager or Head Coach - Ross Embleton
Coaches - Jobi, Brill, Lawless, Harrold, and then however many more we need or the budget dictates

A manager manages, leads and inspires both the players and the fans. A coach coaches the players to maximise their potential. It's not difficult is it.

What has surprised me is the amount of decent managers out there at the moment. I'd take any of them on my list up there and if the truth be told I'd rather lob £3k a week at one of those guys than at trying to keep Sotiriou.

Great post. Sums up some of my frustrations really. me and others have been making similar points, which aren't in depth analysis and expertise, they are pointing out the obvious.

I do wonder whether we are limited in which 'managers' will actually come here when there's a DoF in place.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:37 am**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:34 am
Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 am Assuming we are after an Assistant Head Coach and the whole story isn't a load of Bow Locks.

Why do seemingly really clever and sensible people like Nigel, Kent, Marshall and Matt Porter struggle with this Manager / Coach structure?

To me it seems blindingly obvious. Whilst we've been stable as a club we've had success under two proper managers (Slade and Edinburgh). We've had failings under Head Coaches (Davis, Embleton and Fletcher).

Why are we trying to fix something that isn't really broken? We have all the pieces, let's just put them in the right order.

Manager - Challinor / Tisdale / Adkins / Clough / Hill / Lee Johnson / Chris Powell
Assistant Manager or Head Coach - Ross Embleton
Coaches - Jobi, Brill, Lawless, Harrold, and then however many more we need or the budget dictates

A manager manages, leads and inspires both the players and the fans. A coach coaches the players to maximise their potential. It's not difficult is it.

What has surprised me is the amount of decent managers out there at the moment. I'd take any of them on my list up there and if the truth be told I'd rather lob £3k a week at one of those guys than at trying to keep Sotiriou.
I think the reason is because they try to apply big business logic to the way a football team is run when it's just not the right way to do it.

And the one time they didn't with Justin it worked.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:39 am**

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 am Assuming we are after an Assistant Head Coach and the whole story isn't a load of Bow Locks.

Why do seemingly really clever and sensible people like Nigel, Kent, Marshall and Matt Porter struggle with this Manager / Coach structure?

To me it seems blindingly obvious. Whilst we've been stable as a club we've had success under two proper managers (Slade and Edinburgh). We've had failings under Head Coaches (Davis, Embleton and Fletcher).

Why are we trying to fix something that isn't really broken? We have all the pieces, let's just put them in the right order.

Manager - Challinor / Tisdale / Adkins / Clough / Hill / Lee Johnson / Chris Powell
Assistant Manager or Head Coach - Ross Embleton
Coaches - Jobi, Brill, Lawless, Harrold, and then however many more we need or the budget dictates

A manager manages, leads and inspires both the players and the fans. A coach coaches the players to maximise their potential. It's not difficult is it.

What has surprised me is the amount of decent managers out there at the moment. I'd take any of them on my list up there and if the truth be told I'd rather lob £3k a week at one of those guys than at trying to keep Sotiriou.

Because they’re all mates and too close, difficult decisions cannot be made in that environment.

It’s an old boys network...

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:40 am**

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:37 am
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:34 am
Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 am Assuming we are after an Assistant Head Coach and the whole story isn't a load of Bow Locks.

Why do seemingly really clever and sensible people like Nigel, Kent, Marshall and Matt Porter struggle with this Manager / Coach structure?

To me it seems blindingly obvious. Whilst we've been stable as a club we've had success under two proper managers (Slade and Edinburgh). We've had failings under Head Coaches (Davis, Embleton and Fletcher).

Why are we trying to fix something that isn't really broken? We have all the pieces, let's just put them in the right order.

Manager - Challinor / Tisdale / Adkins / Clough / Hill / Lee Johnson / Chris Powell
Assistant Manager or Head Coach - Ross Embleton
Coaches - Jobi, Brill, Lawless, Harrold, and then however many more we need or the budget dictates

A manager manages, leads and inspires both the players and the fans. A coach coaches the players to maximise their potential. It's not difficult is it.

What has surprised me is the amount of decent managers out there at the moment. I'd take any of them on my list up there and if the truth be told I'd rather lob £3k a week at one of those guys than at trying to keep Sotiriou.
I think the reason is because they try to apply big business logic to the way a football team is run when it's just not the right way to do it.
And the one time they didn't with Justin it worked.

Yep. Imagine how things would have turned out had they turned to Embleton then instead,

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:43 am**

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:34 am You obviously know that is just completely over the top rubbish. He has had 3 seasons. Season one he built a team in a few weeks, season two much of that team finished as champions in a notoriously competitive league, season three we've been mostly poor. If he can keep up one promotion every three years i'll take that disaster.

If it wasn’t for Edinburgh that first season in the national league could’ve ending up a lot lot worse.

We were favourites for relegation again in December 2017.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:45 am**

If it wasn't for the first season and this season then Ling has a 100% record of promotions each season as DOF.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:52 am**

kokomO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:39 am
Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 am Assuming we are after an Assistant Head Coach and the whole story isn't a load of Bow Locks.

Why do seemingly really clever and sensible people like Nigel, Kent, Marshall and Matt Porter struggle with this Manager / Coach structure?

To me it seems blindingly obvious. Whilst we've been stable as a club we've had success under two proper managers (Slade and Edinburgh). We've had failings under Head Coaches (Davis, Embleton and Fletcher).

Why are we trying to fix something that isn't really broken? We have all the pieces, let's just put them in the right order.

Manager - Challinor / Tisdale / Adkins / Clough / Hill / Lee Johnson / Chris Powell
Assistant Manager or Head Coach - Ross Embleton
Coaches - Jobi, Brill, Lawless, Harrold, and then however many more we need or the budget dictates

A manager manages, leads and inspires both the players and the fans. A coach coaches the players to maximise their potential. It's not difficult is it.

What has surprised me is the amount of decent managers out there at the moment. I'd take any of them on my list up there and if the truth be told I'd rather lob £3k a week at one of those guys than at trying to keep Sotiriou.
Because they’re all mates and too close, difficult decisions cannot be made in that environment.

It’s an old boys network...

Whilst that's what it might look like, I don't think it is. Justin came in after all and sorted the mess out and fitted perfectly.

Maybe it's just a case of not seeing the woods for the trees scenario. It's just glaringly obvious.

This is such rhetoric now that it's annoying me to type it about Ross.

If Ross doesn't do well there's so much ammunition for supporters to use against him.

If Ross does well it'll be because we've got decent coaches around him like Jobi.

If we appoint an experienced Assistant and Ross does badly we'll want the Assistant to take over after 3 or 4 games.

If we appoint an experienced Assistant and Ross does well it'll be because of the new assistant.

All the above because we've been dithering around about what to do and all these stories.

Try as they might the likes of Nigel, Kent, Lingy will never convince the majority of fans that Ross earned the job because he was the best candidate. The entire team of players could issue a statement about it and still the fans won't believe it.

Again this is all because we faffed around and didn't know what we wanted after we got promoted.

If the club really are backing Ross and this story about an Assistant has now popped up they need to post up some news pretty sharpish about why we need an assistant or why we don't need an assistant. The guy either needs help or doesn't.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:06 pm**

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:00 pm On the Orient hour they were talking about an assistant manager coming in, names mentioned were.

Slade
Jobi
McClean

So who do you want as assistant manager? What has anyone heard? With a DOF, head coach, first team coach is there room in the set up for an assistant as well? Wouldn’t it have been more prudent to find an experienced head coach rather than have to jet in someone else to make up for our HC lack of experience? What do others think?

It would have to be Russell all day long for me .

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:11 pm**

Surprised Luke Williams hasn't been mentioned. Would make sense.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:17 pm**

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:34 am You obviously know that is just completely over the top rubbish. He has had 3 seasons. Season one he built a team in a few weeks, season two much of that team finished as champions in a notoriously competitive league, season three we've been mostly poor. If he can keep up one promotion every three years i'll take that disaster.

But he won't and you know that.

The only successful season of the 3 was when Justin was here for it's entirety.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:27 pm**

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:52 am
kokomO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:39 am
Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 am Assuming we are after an Assistant Head Coach and the whole story isn't a load of Bow Locks.

Why do seemingly really clever and sensible people like Nigel, Kent, Marshall and Matt Porter struggle with this Manager / Coach structure?

To me it seems blindingly obvious. Whilst we've been stable as a club we've had success under two proper managers (Slade and Edinburgh). We've had failings under Head Coaches (Davis, Embleton and Fletcher).

Why are we trying to fix something that isn't really broken? We have all the pieces, let's just put them in the right order.

Manager - Challinor / Tisdale / Adkins / Clough / Hill / Lee Johnson / Chris Powell
Assistant Manager or Head Coach - Ross Embleton
Coaches - Jobi, Brill, Lawless, Harrold, and then however many more we need or the budget dictates

A manager manages, leads and inspires both the players and the fans. A coach coaches the players to maximise their potential. It's not difficult is it.

What has surprised me is the amount of decent managers out there at the moment. I'd take any of them on my list up there and if the truth be told I'd rather lob £3k a week at one of those guys than at trying to keep Sotiriou.
Because they’re all mates and too close, difficult decisions cannot be made in that environment.

It’s an old boys network...
Whilst that's what it might look like, I don't think it is. Justin came in after all and sorted the mess out and fitted perfectly.

Maybe it's just a case of not seeing the woods for the trees scenario. It's just glaringly obvious.

This is such rhetoric now that it's annoying me to type it about Ross.

If Ross doesn't do well there's so much ammunition for supporters to use against him.

If Ross does well it'll be because we've got decent coaches around him like Jobi.

If we appoint an experienced Assistant and Ross does badly we'll want the Assistant to take over after 3 or 4 games.

If we appoint an experienced Assistant and Ross does well it'll be because of the new assistant.

All the above because we've been dithering around about what to do and all these stories.

Try as they might the likes of Nigel, Kent, Lingy will never convince the majority of fans that Ross earned the job because he was the best candidate. The entire team of players could issue a statement about it and still the fans won't believe it.

Again this is all because we faffed around and didn't know what we wanted after we got promoted.

If the club really are backing Ross and this story about an Assistant has now popped up they need to post up some news pretty sharpish about why we need an assistant or why we don't need an assistant. The guy either needs help or doesn't.

Embleton himself not wanting it either for quite some time and having to be ‘persuaded’ to take the job didn’t help matters either though.

Shouldn’t have been an option. He should’ve wanted it or not, not be persuaded into the position ( in my opinion that is)

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:29 pm**

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:17 pm
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:34 am You obviously know that is just completely over the top rubbish. He has had 3 seasons. Season one he built a team in a few weeks, season two much of that team finished as champions in a notoriously competitive league, season three we've been mostly poor. If he can keep up one promotion every three years i'll take that disaster.
But he won't and you know that.

The only successful season of the 3 was when Justin was here for it's entirety.

Yeah but to be fair the first season was with Steve Davis, so it's not fair to blame Ling for that?

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:36 pm**

What about castle as asstant

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:45 pm**

Interesting jump from 'you're not a mind reader you don't know what happened with Webb!' to steadfastly being certain the club didn't try to rectify the situation with Fletcher.

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:48 pm**

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:24 am
KC & sunshine band wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:17 am similar to the civil service years ago , recruit as many people as possible and then the blame can be deflected from the hierarchy and decision makers.
Ling is an absolute disaster of a DoF

Interesting. What professional football qualifications do you have to make that statement?

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