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Out of The clubs hands, If a player doesn't want to sign and had offers from elsewhere further up the pyramid. If goes to a medium sized League One club he's going to be earning probably two or three times what we can offer.Simple Man wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:25 pm Simply totally unacceptable Ling hasn't forced Sotiriou to sign an extended contract. What the hell is the DoF doing to earn his wages.
True, but still free to sign for anyone else in the meantime he is now not contractually tied in.Thor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:38 pm He is still on the pay roll till the end of July. All contracts run to 30th of June however, when a contract expires the club is obliged to pay one further months salary if they have not yet found a club, thus I beleive he will still be on our payroll still......
Correct.Top of the JES wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:41 pmTrue, but still free to sign for anyone else in the meantime he is now not contractually tied in.Thor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:38 pm He is still on the pay roll till the end of July. All contracts run to 30th of June however, when a contract expires the club is obliged to pay one further months salary if they have not yet found a club, thus I beleive he will still be on our payroll still......
£90k for Porter?Top of the JES wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:12 pmgshaw wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:18 pmClub won't ever say, everything is "undisclosed" but the EPPP guidelines give you an idea what the compo fee isSmendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:52 pm
Why not wait and see instead of crying about it now.
EPPP guidelines only apply to academy players and in Sotirious case would have nothing to do with it. As long as we have made the offer of a further contract and because hr is already on a pro contract if two clubs cannot agree a fee it goes to the PFCC - Professional Fotball Compensation Committee made up of a member of the PFA, EFL, Premier League, and LMA under an independent chairman. This was the case for George Porter.
Burnley were ordered to pay £90k upfront £17.5 k after 15,30,45 and 60 games, £100k if Burnley were promoted within 3 seasons and Porter play half the games and (I think) 16.5% of any transfer profit. Sotiriou had obviously played fewer games but represented Cyprus at under 18 level. Would expect a reasonable return if it goes to arbitration.
Found the article:-
GEORGE PORTER
Porter had made 34 league appearances for Leyton Orient between the age of 18 and 20. He rejected a new two year contract offer, and instead signed a three year contract with the Championship club Burnley.
The PFCC decided that Burnley should pay Leyton Orient an initial compensation fee of £90,000.
Additionally, Burnley were to pay Leyton Orient a further £17,500 after the player has made 15, 30, 45 and 60 appearances (i.e. a total further potential payment of £70,000).
Burnley would also pay Leyton Orient a further sum of £100,000 if Burnley were promoted to the Premier League in the next three seasons and assuming the player remains at the club and had played at least 23 matches in the promotion season.
Leyton Orient should receive 16.5% of any profit made by Burnley in selling the player to another club at any point in the future.
Simple Man by name, simple man by nature.Simple Man wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:25 pm Simply totally unacceptable Ling hasn't forced Sotiriou to sign an extended contract. What the hell is the DoF doing to earn his wages.
You do understand "everything is undisclosed" when we agree a sale/to buy a player because that's the rules, right?gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:18 pmClub won't ever say, everything is "undisclosed" but the EPPP guidelines give you an idea what the compo fee isSmendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:52 pmWhy not wait and see instead of crying about it now.
Beg to differ.Top of the JES wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:35 pmOut of The clubs hands, If a player doesn't want to sign and had offers from elsewhere further up the pyramid. If goes to a medium sized League One club he's going to be earning probably two or three times what we can offer.Simple Man wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:25 pm Simply totally unacceptable Ling hasn't forced Sotiriou to sign an extended contract. What the hell is the DoF doing to earn his wages.
It's worked for us in the past.
Go on then.......HeyO wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:05 amBeg to differ.Top of the JES wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:35 pmOut of The clubs hands, If a player doesn't want to sign and had offers from elsewhere further up the pyramid. If goes to a medium sized League One club he's going to be earning probably two or three times what we can offer.Simple Man wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:25 pm Simply totally unacceptable Ling hasn't forced Sotiriou to sign an extended contract. What the hell is the DoF doing to earn his wages.
It's worked for us in the past.
I'll definitely be asking how this happened (particularly in light of other contract extensions) and how we've let a promising player go when a senior member of club staff is next on a podcast.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:48 am Of course, it's true that if a player gets an offer for more money, or to play at a higher level, it's out of the club's hands.
But that's a bit one dimensional.
It's the same as any job. If you're happy where you are, and are treated right then you might not want to move. That's possibly even more true of footballers who usually have to uproot themselves and their family, move across the country, find new schools for their kids, sell their house, etc... Orient have an advantage over every single other league club with our own players because they are our players. We can engage them whenever we want in the season (and not a month before their contract runs out), we can probably get a bit of a discount compared with spending on the open market and we can make a good players life better by treating them well, playing them, promising this and that going forward.
Of course, some players will leave regardless. But if i'm at a company who's giving me decent pay rises, giving me good development opportunities, talking to me around the time i might naturally be looking to move elsewhere for a promotion or a pay rise and understanding my motives and giving me reason to stay, i'm much less likely to be looking elsewhere.
Sorry to be all prez biz but it's simply not true that it's completely out of the club's hands. We have proved to be reactionary when it comes to certain players, rather than pro-active (unless, of course, you are over 30 or mates/family with the boss).
Because he hasn’t been released...BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:23 pmWhy would/should they announce who were getting released?Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:22 pm Why would/should they announce that he is a free agent?
Orient have been talking to Ruel and Marvin for months, it would be nice to think that just being happy at a club is enough but for young men with limited careers it means f all these daysApple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:48 am Of course, it's true that if a player gets an offer for more money, or to play at a higher level, it's out of the club's hands.
But that's a bit one dimensional.
It's the same as any job. If you're happy where you are, and are treated right then you might not want to move. That's possibly even more true of footballers who usually have to uproot themselves and their family, move across the country, find new schools for their kids, sell their house, etc... Orient have an advantage over every single other league club with our own players because they are our players. We can engage them whenever we want in the season (and not a month before their contract runs out), we can probably get a bit of a discount compared with spending on the open market and we can make a good players life better by treating them well, playing them, promising this and that going forward.
Of course, some players will leave regardless. But if i'm at a company who's giving me decent pay rises, giving me good development opportunities, talking to me around the time i might naturally be looking to move elsewhere for a promotion or a pay rise and understanding my motives and giving me reason to stay, i'm much less likely to be looking elsewhere.
Sorry to be all prez biz but it's simply not true that it's completely out of the club's hands. We have proved to be reactionary when it comes to certain players, rather than pro-active (unless, of course, you are over 30 or mates/family with the boss).
Sotiriou is 20 and I don’t think he has kids, family or a mortgage to worry aboutApple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:48 am Of course, it's true that if a player gets an offer for more money, or to play at a higher level, it's out of the club's hands.
But that's a bit one dimensional.
It's the same as any job. If you're happy where you are, and are treated right then you might not want to move. That's possibly even more true of footballers who usually have to uproot themselves and their family, move across the country, find new schools for their kids, sell their house, etc... Orient have an advantage over every single other league club with our own players because they are our players. We can engage them whenever we want in the season (and not a month before their contract runs out), we can probably get a bit of a discount compared with spending on the open market and we can make a good players life better by treating them well, playing them, promising this and that going forward.
Of course, some players will leave regardless. But if i'm at a company who's giving me decent pay rises, giving me good development opportunities, talking to me around the time i might naturally be looking to move elsewhere for a promotion or a pay rise and understanding my motives and giving me reason to stay, i'm much less likely to be looking elsewhere.
Sorry to be all prez biz but it's simply not true that it's completely out of the club's hands. We have proved to be reactionary when it comes to certain players, rather than pro-active (unless, of course, you are over 30 or mates/family with the boss).
Ling is in no position to force Sortiriou to sign anything. Why can’t people understand that fact. It’s not in Lings control. All he can do is make offers and promises. Beyond that he is powerless. I have no doubt the club is doing or have done all they can should they want him to stay. But ultimately there is nothing they can do to stop him leaving.Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:35 amSimple Man by name, simple man by nature.Simple Man wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:25 pm Simply totally unacceptable Ling hasn't forced Sotiriou to sign an extended contract. What the hell is the DoF doing to earn his wages.
The club can do all that and more. Who can say they have not done so. But they cannot force a player to stay. Other clubs too can offer all that stuff and more. Maybe much more than we are able too. Not in our control at all. If he goes it’s no indication that Ling has done anything wrong. That’s life, people change employers.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:48 am Of course, it's true that if a player gets an offer for more money, or to play at a higher level, it's out of the club's hands.
But that's a bit one dimensional.
It's the same as any job. If you're happy where you are, and are treated right then you might not want to move. That's possibly even more true of footballers who usually have to uproot themselves and their family, move across the country, find new schools for their kids, sell their house, etc... Orient have an advantage over every single other league club with our own players because they are our players. We can engage them whenever we want in the season (and not a month before their contract runs out), we can probably get a bit of a discount compared with spending on the open market and we can make a good players life better by treating them well, playing them, promising this and that going forward.
Of course, some players will leave regardless. But if i'm at a company who's giving me decent pay rises, giving me good development opportunities, talking to me around the time i might naturally be looking to move elsewhere for a promotion or a pay rise and understanding my motives and giving me reason to stay, i'm much less likely to be looking elsewhere.
Sorry to be all prez biz but it's simply not true that it's completely out of the club's hands. We have proved to be reactionary when it comes to certain players, rather than pro-active (unless, of course, you are over 30 or mates/family with the boss).
Not too sure what the fuss is about.Thor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:38 pm He is still on the pay roll till the end of July. All contracts run to 30th of June however, when a contract expires the club is obliged to pay one further months salary if they have not yet found a club, thus I beleive he will still be on our payroll still......
Someone said that it was completely out of the clubs hands, which is simply untrue.Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:48 pmThe club can do all that and more. Who can say they have not done so. But they cannot force a player to stay. Other clubs too can offer all that stuff and more. Maybe much more than we are able too. Not in our control at all. If he goes it’s no indication that Ling has done anything wrong. That’s life, people change employers.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:48 am Of course, it's true that if a player gets an offer for more money, or to play at a higher level, it's out of the club's hands.
But that's a bit one dimensional.
It's the same as any job. If you're happy where you are, and are treated right then you might not want to move. That's possibly even more true of footballers who usually have to uproot themselves and their family, move across the country, find new schools for their kids, sell their house, etc... Orient have an advantage over every single other league club with our own players because they are our players. We can engage them whenever we want in the season (and not a month before their contract runs out), we can probably get a bit of a discount compared with spending on the open market and we can make a good players life better by treating them well, playing them, promising this and that going forward.
Of course, some players will leave regardless. But if i'm at a company who's giving me decent pay rises, giving me good development opportunities, talking to me around the time i might naturally be looking to move elsewhere for a promotion or a pay rise and understanding my motives and giving me reason to stay, i'm much less likely to be looking elsewhere.
Sorry to be all prez biz but it's simply not true that it's completely out of the club's hands. We have proved to be reactionary when it comes to certain players, rather than pro-active (unless, of course, you are over 30 or mates/family with the boss).
You cannot force anyone out of contract to sign a new contract. His agent is probably working hard to get a contract with a higher league club . You cannot blame Ling for that.Simple Man wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:25 pm Simply totally unacceptable Ling hasn't forced Sotiriou to sign an extended contract. What the hell is the DoF doing to earn his wages.
It is true though. The club can make offers, promises etc. But the decision is 100% with the player.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:49 pmSomeone said that it was completely out of the clubs hands, which is simply untrue.Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:48 pmThe club can do all that and more. Who can say they have not done so. But they cannot force a player to stay. Other clubs too can offer all that stuff and more. Maybe much more than we are able too. Not in our control at all. If he goes it’s no indication that Ling has done anything wrong. That’s life, people change employers.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:48 am Of course, it's true that if a player gets an offer for more money, or to play at a higher level, it's out of the club's hands.
But that's a bit one dimensional.
It's the same as any job. If you're happy where you are, and are treated right then you might not want to move. That's possibly even more true of footballers who usually have to uproot themselves and their family, move across the country, find new schools for their kids, sell their house, etc... Orient have an advantage over every single other league club with our own players because they are our players. We can engage them whenever we want in the season (and not a month before their contract runs out), we can probably get a bit of a discount compared with spending on the open market and we can make a good players life better by treating them well, playing them, promising this and that going forward.
Of course, some players will leave regardless. But if i'm at a company who's giving me decent pay rises, giving me good development opportunities, talking to me around the time i might naturally be looking to move elsewhere for a promotion or a pay rise and understanding my motives and giving me reason to stay, i'm much less likely to be looking elsewhere.
Sorry to be all prez biz but it's simply not true that it's completely out of the club's hands. We have proved to be reactionary when it comes to certain players, rather than pro-active (unless, of course, you are over 30 or mates/family with the boss).
The process is two way. the club have a part to play. Yes, the player gets the final decision but if you're saying there's nothing the club can do to potentially influence or affect that decision, you're wrong.Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:54 pmIt is true though. The club can make offers, promises etc. But the decision is 100% with the player.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:49 pmSomeone said that it was completely out of the clubs hands, which is simply untrue.Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:48 pm
The club can do all that and more. Who can say they have not done so. But they cannot force a player to stay. Other clubs too can offer all that stuff and more. Maybe much more than we are able too. Not in our control at all. If he goes it’s no indication that Ling has done anything wrong. That’s life, people change employers.
I’ve never ever said the club cannot try hard to keep him. Of course they can. Money, game time, coaching, new car, new house, luncheon vouchers. We all know that. But if offers are made the decision is 100% his. That will be based on the opportunities offered elsewhere Too, who may well be offering all this and much more. And if he chooses to go there is nothing the club can do about it.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:24 pmThe process is two way. the club have a part to play. Yes, the player gets the final decision but if you're saying there's nothing the club can do to potentially influence or affect that decision, you're wrong.Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:54 pmIt is true though. The club can make offers, promises etc. But the decision is 100% with the player.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:49 pm
Someone said that it was completely out of the clubs hands, which is simply untrue.