Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:36 pm I think Ruel has been out on loan Seven times in the last two years, for me he gives us pace and a directness we haven't got in any other forward players. The error I think was made last season only giving him a years contract. Surely the coaching staff could have seen enough in him to give him 2 or 3 years. Resigning Alabi and not giving Ruel a longer contract looked a bad idea at the time and I suspect getting farmed out again to Dover and having a manager in Hessanthaler who believed in him opened his eyes a bit.

Be very surprised if he stays. Marvin as said elsewhere is replaceable possibly a bit part player in a League One squad at best.

Alabi was already on a two year deal. Hadn't realised Sotiriou was only signed for one season last year; so we preferred to unnecessarily extend Brill, Coulson, Ling and Widdowson's deals over Sotiriou.

Majorly disappointed in the club if we've allowed a top young talent like Ruel to swan off elsewhere. I mean, its not like any of our other forwards could hit a cows arse with a banjo is it?

They favoured experience over potential. If you have a talent at the club you find the money and the contract. Two years later who knows, happy days for Ruel and big money for the club.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:44 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:36 pm I think Ruel has been out on loan Seven times in the last two years, for me he gives us pace and a directness we haven't got in any other forward players. The error I think was made last season only giving him a years contract. Surely the coaching staff could have seen enough in him to give him 2 or 3 years. Resigning Alabi and not giving Ruel a longer contract looked a bad idea at the time and I suspect getting farmed out again to Dover and having a manager in Hessanthaler who believed in him opened his eyes a bit.

Be very surprised if he stays. Marvin as said elsewhere is replaceable possibly a bit part player in a League One squad at best.

Alabi was already on a two year deal. Hadn't realised Sotiriou was only signed for one season last year; so we preferred to unnecessarily extend Brill, Coulson, Ling and Widdowson's deals over Sotiriou.

Yep I meant retaining once he had been transfer listed rather than re-signing. Simply have to be more ruthless to succeed. would rather have got rid of at least one out of contract senior player, got shot of Alabi and saved some cash and made sure retained Ruel for longer.

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:44 pm HH those facts really do highlight bad management calls and i prefer to go with a promising youngster who is home bred as against seasoned players who have shown average form for years. These days i think you need people in management who are either brave or have great man management skills. Plodding along will get us nowhere.

Looking at it from the club's point of view, they will say that we are judging this based on hindsight. That his one year deal was a "prove it" contract after which he'd be rewarded if he did well. Suspect they were caught with their pants down and didn't expect him to perform as well as he did and attract attention from other clubs who would take a punt on that potential. Oh, and also yadda yadda Covid-19 so can't offer him a better deal yadda yadda yadda.

Looking forward to asking a question about Sotiriou next time one of the senior club staff are on one of the podcasts.

I suspect he just wasn't rated by our people. I would guess, by his lack of inclusion and being sent out on loan, that ML and/or RE were expecting that his contract would roll down and we'd release him this season. Obviously, what happened took them by surprise as i would have thought we would have signed him up at the start of last season to a longer term deal (and no doubt saved ourselves money compared to what we are offering now).

Maybe Marv reads the message board & isnt keen on some of our fans views as he retweeted this

I am going to go against the trend above re; Sotiriou.

He may have shown some potential but I feel we need a Harrold-type player who can hold the ball up and bring others into play. Patently Wilkinson, Angol and Dennis would do much better feeding off someone like Harrold as they are not the centre forward we need.

Johnson is the 'fox in the box' so he too would benefit from a new Harrold. There will be many older, more consistent forward players available now and Ruel would not be missed IMHO.

As for Ekpiteta - he can be replaced and if Jobi is pricing himself too high so he can play, then sorry but thanks and best wishes for everything. You will not be forgotten in a hurry.

Jobi ?

Where has that come from ?

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:52 pm Jobi ?

Where has that come from ?

Also not agreed a new contract as yet

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:36 pm I think Ruel has been out on loan Seven times in the last two years, for me he gives us pace and a directness we haven't got in any other forward players. The error I think was made last season only giving him a years contract. Surely the coaching staff could have seen enough in him to give him 2 or 3 years. Resigning Alabi and not giving Ruel a longer contract looked a bad idea at the time and I suspect getting farmed out again to Dover and having a manager in Hessanthaler who believed in him opened his eyes a bit.

Be very surprised if he stays. Marvin as said elsewhere is replaceable possibly a bit part player in a League One squad at best.

Is this right, 7 loans?

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:54 pm I suspect he just wasn't rated by our people. I would guess, by his lack of inclusion and being sent out on loan, that ML and/or RE were expecting that his contract would roll down and we'd release him this season. Obviously, what happened took them by surprise as i would have thought we would have signed him up at the start of last season to a longer term deal (and no doubt saved ourselves money compared to what we are offering now).

That's ridiculous if so.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:08 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:36 pm I think Ruel has been out on loan Seven times in the last two years, for me he gives us pace and a directness we haven't got in any other forward players. The error I think was made last season only giving him a years contract. Surely the coaching staff could have seen enough in him to give him 2 or 3 years. Resigning Alabi and not giving Ruel a longer contract looked a bad idea at the time and I suspect getting farmed out again to Dover and having a manager in Hessanthaler who believed in him opened his eyes a bit.

Be very surprised if he stays. Marvin as said elsewhere is replaceable possibly a bit part player in a League One squad at best.

Is this right, 7 loans?

My bad it's "Only" Six. Heybridge Swifts, Leatherhead, Bishops Stortford, Chelmsford City, Hampton & Richmons and Dover Athletic. Total of 22 appearances and11 goals. 1 every 2 games, excellent strike rate which he has continued for us 6 in 12 games.

Ruel won't be missed and it's not because of talent. He has barely played for the first team. They showed no faith in him at the start of the season and it wasn;t until he scored on TV for Dover and then came back that they started playing him. He did very well when he got games for Orient but then started getting playeed out wide a lot. That isn't his position. He needed to be playing up front, where he can get touches in the box. He's not going to develop at Orient, infact, all the young players breaking through won't develop at the club whilst the set up is like it is.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:44 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:08 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:36 pm I think Ruel has been out on loan Seven times in the last two years, for me he gives us pace and a directness we haven't got in any other forward players. The error I think was made last season only giving him a years contract. Surely the coaching staff could have seen enough in him to give him 2 or 3 years. Resigning Alabi and not giving Ruel a longer contract looked a bad idea at the time and I suspect getting farmed out again to Dover and having a manager in Hessanthaler who believed in him opened his eyes a bit.

Be very surprised if he stays. Marvin as said elsewhere is replaceable possibly a bit part player in a League One squad at best.

Is this right, 7 loans?

My bad it's "Only" Six. Heybridge Swifts, Leatherhead, Bishops Stortford, Chelmsford City, Hampton & Richmons and Dover Athletic. Total of 22 appearances and11 goals. 1 every 2 games, excellent strike rate which he has continued for us 6 in 12 games.

A total of 34 games and 17 goals in career.

Of which 3 were for dover on loan & 6 for the O's in League 2 when
he came back to us . .

Nothing scored above the National legaue until dover & then us in L2 for us

Everything else was national league south or isthmian prem & North .

So really Ruel has only genuinely shown what he is since the loan to Dover.

Why so many would assume he was a natural when his
numbers werent knocking spots off others is a suprise.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruel_Sotiriou

You just need to go to career statistics to see that info

DuvB wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:03 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:52 pm Jobi ?

Where has that come from ?

Also not agreed a new contract as yet

Is that a coaching or playing contract or both ?

Shame if we lose these two. I feel we do not have many or even any standout players if these two do not sign on....

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:06 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:44 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:08 pm

Is this right, 7 loans?

My bad it's "Only" Six. Heybridge Swifts, Leatherhead, Bishops Stortford, Chelmsford City, Hampton & Richmons and Dover Athletic. Total of 22 appearances and11 goals. 1 every 2 games, excellent strike rate which he has continued for us 6 in 12 games.

A total of 34 games and 17 goals in career.

Of which 3 were for dover on loan & 6 for the O's in League 2 when
he came back to us . .

Nothing scored above the National legaue until dover & then us in L2 for us

Everything else was national league south or isthmian prem & North .

So really Ruel has only genuinely shown what he is since the loan to Dover.

Why so many would assume he was a natural when his
numbers werent knocking spots off others is a suprise.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruel_Sotiriou

You just need to go to career statistics to see that info

They are decent figures for a kid moving into men's football, he can only play at the level his loan dictates, six goals in twelve league two games last season is pretty good no?

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:16 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:06 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:44 pm

My bad it's "Only" Six. Heybridge Swifts, Leatherhead, Bishops Stortford, Chelmsford City, Hampton & Richmons and Dover Athletic. Total of 22 appearances and11 goals. 1 every 2 games, excellent strike rate which he has continued for us 6 in 12 games.

A total of 34 games and 17 goals in career.

Of which 3 were for dover on loan & 6 for the O's in League 2 when
he came back to us . .

Nothing scored above the National legaue until dover & then us in L2 for us

Everything else was national league south or isthmian prem & North .

So really Ruel has only genuinely shown what he is since the loan to Dover.

Why so many would assume he was a natural when his
numbers werent knocking spots off others is a suprise.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruel_Sotiriou

You just need to go to career statistics to see that info

They are decent figures for a kid moving into men's football, he can only play at the level his loan dictates, six goals in twelve league two games last season is pretty good no?

9 goals in 12 games are incredible figures . ( dover & back to us)

8 goals in 22 games (pre dover)
at a very low level isnt much to be pulling up trees.
Its not bad but its not stardom here i come .

Again lots of people saying you could just tell

No i dont think you can .

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:00 am Think you could be right. both at this moment, are not contracted to the club, and have had several weeks to do so.
Both will be a major loss to the club, but especially Ruel. Ive made no secret, that i think this lad, could really be something special , and to have him up front for a season ( or two), would have made our promotion prospects much improved.
Im peeved, because Ross ( or Ling), didnt play him until fairly recently, and Alabi was ahead of him in the pecking order, for the last two years, which is IMO ridiculous.

''Im peeved, because Ross ( or Ling), didnt play him until fairly recently, and Alabi was ahead of him in the pecking order, for the last two years, which is IMO ridiculous.''
Agree, it was VERY ridiculous !
I am guessing that Alabi persuaded Martin and Ross to give him another chance and by doing so, it would seem that it kept Ruell off the subs bench and deprived the young man of getting a chance to show what he also had to offer. Too late Ruell was at last given his chance and he took his chance and did really well, but it all came a bit too late.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:36 pm I think Ruel has been out on loan Seven times in the last two years, for me he gives us pace and a directness we haven't got in any other forward players. The error I think was made last season only giving him a years contract. Surely the coaching staff could have seen enough in him to give him 2 or 3 years. Resigning Alabi and not giving Ruel a longer contract looked a bad idea at the time and I suspect getting farmed out again to Dover and having a manager in Hessanthaler who believed in him opened his eyes a bit.

Be very surprised if he stays. Marvin as said elsewhere is replaceable possibly a bit part player in a League One squad at best.

@Top of the JES
Yes agree, especially with what you wrote here ''I suspect getting farmed out again to Dover and having a manager in Hessanthaler who believed in him opened his eyes a bit.'' Yes Hess gave Ruell confidence and made him feel wanted, such an important thing to do at that time when this young player was a fringe member of the Os first team.
I have noticed that you place some very good comments, well done for your input.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:07 pm

DuvB wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:03 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:52 pm Jobi ?

Where has that come from ?

Also not agreed a new contract as yet

Is that a coaching or playing contract or both ?

Who knows? I would hazard a guess, both though.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:43 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:36 pm I think Ruel has been out on loan Seven times in the last two years, for me he gives us pace and a directness we haven't got in any other forward players. The error I think was made last season only giving him a years contract. Surely the coaching staff could have seen enough in him to give him 2 or 3 years. Resigning Alabi and not giving Ruel a longer contract looked a bad idea at the time and I suspect getting farmed out again to Dover and having a manager in Hessanthaler who believed in him opened his eyes a bit.

Be very surprised if he stays. Marvin as said elsewhere is replaceable possibly a bit part player in a League One squad at best.

@Top of the JES
I have noticed that you place some very good comments, well done for your input.

Careful Sid
Blowing smoke up someone can backfire
Dont be to close

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:50 pm They favoured experience over potential. If you have a talent at the club you find the money and the contract. Two years later who knows, happy days for Ruel and big money for the club.

That’s bullsh*t!