Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Sid if you feel comfortable wearing one and it gives you a secure sense in what your doing then please carry on. I would not tell anyone not to wear one, it's just not for me.

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:34 pm Sid if you feel comfortable wearing one and it gives you a secure sense in what your doing then please carry on. I would not tell anyone not to wear one, it's just not for me.

It is if you go on public transport ( I realise that's unlikely for a man of your means).

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:06 pm Whilst I will not be travelling on trains or tubes, I would refuse to wear one.

A face mask was invented to protect the patient from infection from the surgeon. It was not for the surgeon to protect himself, it was to stop drool or spital or any kind of fluid from the doctor entering the open wound.

The wearing of a face mask will by the very nature of what it does, restrict the amount of oxygen your body would be able to take in. As your body realises that the oxygen level has reduced it will then release adrenaline and serotonin. In turn the heart will quicken to keep up with what's going on. Now your putting your body under stress without even realising it, and one of the main things this virus loves is stress.

So for me I won't be wearing one.

Then you'll be getting a fine from the BTP

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:34 pm Sid if you feel comfortable wearing one and it gives you a secure sense in what your doing then please carry on. I would not tell anyone not to wear one, it's just not for me.

It is no coincidence that in far eastern countries like Hong Kong, South Korea, Philippines etc, stricter lock-down rules and mandatory wearing of face masks when outside your own home has resulted in far fewer deaths to this awful virus. We have been far too so soft and sloppy also too late in recognising the dangers of this virus and refusing to bring in far stricter lock-down rules . Also people in the public spotlight, e.g Boris Johnson, Trump, Prince Charles etc have NOT been good role models where when the dangers were well known, still insisting on going round and shaking the hands of so many people. Of course many people have also contributed to the spread of the virus by refusing to wear any PPE or take social distancing seriously.

For myself, I think the way forward, late as it is, is to make the wearing of face masks mandatory in supermarkets, public transport, shopping malls etc and divide zones of the UK up into different lock-down rules depending on the levels of infections in each zone. Something done in other countries where they have been more successful in limiting the spread of the virus and I understand something already under consideration by the government and local government officials, that is if they have the guts to enforce such a move !

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:23 pm For myself, I think the way forward, late as it is, is to make the wearing of face masks mandatory in supermarkets, public transport, shopping malls etc and divide zones of the UK up into different lock-down rules depending on the levels of infections in each zone. Something done in other countries where they have been more successful in limiting the spread of the virus and I understand something already under consideration by the government and local government officials, that is if they have the guts to enforce such a move !

Totally agree but what about people's human right not to wear one?

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:37 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:23 pm For myself, I think the way forward, late as it is, is to make the wearing of face masks mandatory in supermarkets, public transport, shopping malls etc and divide zones of the UK up into different lock-down rules depending on the levels of infections in each zone. Something done in other countries where they have been more successful in limiting the spread of the virus and I understand something already under consideration by the government and local government officials, that is if they have the guts to enforce such a move !

Totally agree but what about people's human right not to wear one?

''Human rights'' always crops up doesnt it !
What about the human rights of those wishing to try to stop other people from infecting them with this killer virus by merely taking some sensible and easily done precautions, no human rights for dead people.

Real Al wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:05 pm Are you suggesting he's someone who needs his face covering?

Covid or not.

Well I've got a face only a mother would love anyway, or should I say it's a face fit for radio. It could only improve me

Personally, I think wearing a facecovering is a simple courtesy to other people around me. Yes it means that if I had the virus unknowingly that I'm less likely to spread it around to the other people in the store etc, but it's also a visible flag to them to say that I'm aware of my responsibility towards others.

Some might describe that as virtue signalling, I suppose. I just regard it as being courteous towards strangers. It's as difficult as tying a large handkerchief or bandana around my face for the 30 minutes I'm in the supermarket, so it's hardly spoiling my day.

Plus - I get to pretend to be an outlaw cowboy.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:23 pm For myself, I think the way forward, late as it is, is to make the wearing of face masks mandatory in supermarkets, public transport, shopping malls etc and divide zones of the UK up into different lock-down rules depending on the levels of infections in each zone. Something done in other countries where they have been more successful in limiting the spread of the virus and I understand something already under consideration by the government and local government officials, that is if they have the guts to enforce such a move !

Agree 100% Sid. Wouldn't bother me wearing the Mask, which I do everytime I go out at least once a day, along with the surgical gloves This virus ain't gonna go away, I believe the mask wearing should be compulsory for all ages

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:18 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:16 pm So you deprived the NHS of PPE?

No, all purchased from my local building supply store, there were plenty available at the time for general use.

Why not buy the Orient ones

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:06 pm Whilst I will not be travelling on trains or tubes, I would refuse to wear one.

A face mask was invented to protect the patient from infection from the surgeon. It was not for the surgeon to protect himself, it was to stop drool or spital or any kind of fluid from the doctor entering the open wound.

The wearing of a face mask will by the very nature of what it does, restrict the amount of oxygen your body would be able to take in. As your body realises that the oxygen level has reduced it will then release adrenaline and serotonin. In turn the heart will quicken to keep up with what's going on. Now your putting your body under stress without even realising it, and one of the main things this virus loves is stress.

So for me I won't be wearing one.

What an absolute load of BS.

"A face mask was invented to protect the patient from infection from the surgeon. It was not for the surgeon to protect himself, it was to stop drool or spital or any kind of fluid from the doctor entering the open wound."

That is exactly what the purpose of the mask is for - to protect others
So I guess you don't do social distancing either and go around doing your Grim Reaper bit.

The whole point of this ,and other recent measures, is so that when the inevitable second spike occurs this craven incompetent shower of charlatans that calls itself a government can deflect any blame onto the public.

EH16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:26 pm The whole point of this ,and other recent measures, is so that when the inevitable second spike occurs this craven incompetent shower of charlatans that calls itself a government can deflect any blame onto the public.

Without wanting to sound anything like Thory, I don't think the govt need to do any blame deflecting. The amount of people ignoring advice seems to far outweigh those that aren't ignoring it.

Interesting, cant really remember that far back about these flu pandemics although I can recall the names of e.g Asian Flu and Hong Kong flu !

See part of this article below........... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 0/fulltext

''Revisiting the 1957 and 1968 influenza pandemics.few hysterical tabloid newspaper headlines and no calls for social distancing. Instead, the news cycle was dominated by the Soviet Union's launch of Sputnik and the aftermath of the fire at the Windscale nuclear reactor in the UK.
By the time this influenza pandemic—known colloquially at the time as “Asian flu”—had concluded the following April, an estimated 20 000 people in the UK and 80 000 citizens in the USA were dead. Worldwide, the pandemic, sparked by a new H2N2 influenza subtype, would result in more than 1 million deaths.
The subsequent 1968 influenza pandemic—or “Hong Kong flu” or “Mao flu” as some western tabloids dubbed it—would have an even more dramatic impact, killing more than 30 000 individuals in the UK and 100 000 people in the USA, with half the deaths among individuals younger than 65 years—the reverse of COVID-19 deaths in the current pandemic. Yet, while at the height of the outbreak in December, 1968, The New York Times described the pandemic as “one of the worst in the nation's history”, there were few school closures and businesses, for the most, continued to operate as normal.''

WickfordO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:42 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:26 pm The whole point of this ,and other recent measures, is so that when the inevitable second spike occurs this craven incompetent shower of charlatans that calls itself a government can deflect any blame onto the public.

Without wanting to sound anything like Thory, I don't think the govt need to do any blame deflecting. The amount of people ignoring advice seems to far outweigh those that aren't ignoring it.

Don't think so.

I'm actually glad that there are loads of people ignoring the advice whilst I am shielding and my family are being careful.

Nice of them to volunteer for herd immunity and establish if we will have a second spike.

WickfordO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:42 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:26 pm The whole point of this ,and other recent measures, is so that when the inevitable second spike occurs this craven incompetent shower of charlatans that calls itself a government can deflect any blame onto the public.

Without wanting to sound anything like Thory, I don't think the govt need to do any blame deflecting. The amount of people ignoring advice seems to far outweigh those that aren't ignoring it.

Agree ! IF you are fair minded and not looking out for political point scoring, fair to say that especially in America, UK, most of the EU Countries, in hindsight ( a wonderful thing that ! ) things could have been handled better, but on the other hand, many of the population have ignored the advice given by scientists and the top medical advisors and that includes from the most entitled to the lowest, including some in the media spotlight who tweet the ''Save the NHS'' stay at home to keep safe....then go partying ! A combination of many people of all levels of status have paid lip service to the advice or even completely ignored it all together ! Seen it so many times myself with my own eyes, so many people out and about acting as if everything is as in normal times ! This virus is transmitted not by governments, it is transmitted by people who are infected to others who up to the time of catching it, were not infected.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:03 pm

WickfordO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:42 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:26 pm The whole point of this ,and other recent measures, is so that when the inevitable second spike occurs this craven incompetent shower of charlatans that calls itself a government can deflect any blame onto the public.

Without wanting to sound anything like Thory, I don't think the govt need to do any blame deflecting. The amount of people ignoring advice seems to far outweigh those that aren't ignoring it.

Agree ! IF you are fair minded and not looking out for political point scoring, fair to say that especially in America, UK, most of the EU Countries, in hindsight ( a wonderful thing that ! ) things could have been handled better, but on the other hand, many of the population have ignored the advice given by scientists and the top medical advisors and that includes from the most entitled to the lowest, including some in the media spotlight who tweet the ''Save the NHS'' stay at home to keep safe....then go partying ! A combination of many people of all levels of status have paid lip service to the advice or even completely ignored it all together ! Seen it so many times myself with my own eyes, so many people out and about acting as if everything is as in normal times ! This virus is transmitted not by governments, it is transmitted by people who are infected to others who up to the time of catching it, were not infected.

It's not political point scoring to say the UK government has been disastrous. Its a simple statement of fact backed up by many comparisons around the world.

WickfordO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:42 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:26 pm The whole point of this ,and other recent measures, is so that when the inevitable second spike occurs this craven incompetent shower of charlatans that calls itself a government can deflect any blame onto the public.

Without wanting to sound anything like Thory, I don't think the govt need to do any blame deflecting. The amount of people ignoring advice seems to far outweigh those that aren't ignoring it.

I would have vehemently disagreed with you up until 2 weeks ago.

But for some reason, it does appear guidance is now being widely ignored. I wonder what could have changed peoples mindsets?

In France and Belgium you're banned from wearing a face covering, so when do you take it off on the Eurostar?

There must be some kind of border between the train and the platform, a sort of midair disrobing moment.

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:41 pm

WickfordO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:42 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:26 pm The whole point of this ,and other recent measures, is so that when the inevitable second spike occurs this craven incompetent shower of charlatans that calls itself a government can deflect any blame onto the public.

Without wanting to sound anything like Thory, I don't think the govt need to do any blame deflecting. The amount of people ignoring advice seems to far outweigh those that aren't ignoring it.

I would have vehemently disagreed with you up until 2 weeks ago.

But for some reason, it does appear guidance is now being widely ignored. I wonder what could have changed peoples mindsets?

There is that!

EH16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:26 pm The whole point of this ,and other recent measures, is so that when the inevitable second spike occurs this craven incompetent shower of charlatans that calls itself a government can deflect any blame onto the public.

I'm already getting ready to blame da stupid yuff for the next wave to hit us, those stupid ones that feel this virus ain't nufing to do wiv us it's an old person complaint.

EH16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:56 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:03 pm

WickfordO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:42 pm

Without wanting to sound anything like Thory, I don't think the govt need to do any blame deflecting. The amount of people ignoring advice seems to far outweigh those that aren't ignoring it.

Agree ! IF you are fair minded and not looking out for political point scoring, fair to say that especially in America, UK, most of the EU Countries, in hindsight ( a wonderful thing that ! ) things could have been handled better, but on the other hand, many of the population have ignored the advice given by scientists and the top medical advisors and that includes from the most entitled to the lowest, including some in the media spotlight who tweet the ''Save the NHS'' stay at home to keep safe....then go partying ! A combination of many people of all levels of status have paid lip service to the advice or even completely ignored it all together ! Seen it so many times myself with my own eyes, so many people out and about acting as if everything is as in normal times ! This virus is transmitted not by governments, it is transmitted by people who are infected to others who up to the time of catching it, were not infected.

It's not political point scoring to say the UK government has been disastrous. Its a simple statement of fact backed up by many comparisons around the world.

It doesn't matter if the government were wrongly advised or not, because there are those in the public that simply will not/could not follow any advise of any kind to help us nail this virus once and for all

Scientific advice is just that, advice. Governments have to choose based on a series of presented options and then said governments are able to choose, often led by ideology/political expectations. Ours chose badly throughout, that is pretty unanimously agreed worldwide.

Agree that some will simply not follow advice though, but until a few weeks ago I would say the absolute majority were very much following what was asked of them. It also shows why that Twitter professor and others need to understand the way they package being positive is important. Obviously it is good to keep spirits up but you can overfill that cup to the point people become too comfortable and safe and ignore advice, as has been happening recently. Claiming we have total control and everything is heading hunky dory when it isn't and wasn't is worse.