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Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 3:36 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
Also, what blog?
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:00 pm
by Max B Gold
Hang on a minute before this speculative speculation goes any further. Have we not already accounted for most of the £2m. i.e.
£1.2m drop in revenue from league between L2 and NL.
Paying up managers and players contracts who were terminated. Davis, Mooney, Elokobi etc.
Increased wage costs where contracts renegotiated 're Bonne etc and increase in squad size.
Director of football cost.
Smaller amounts to get out of onerous or non performing contracts.
Is interest being charged on loans from the owners?
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:02 pm
by tuffers#1
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 4:00 pm
Hang on a minute before this speculative speculation goes any further. Have we not already accounted for most of the £2m. i.e.
£1.2m drop in revenue from league between L2 and NL.
Paying up managers and players contracts who were terminated. Davis, Mooney, Elokobi etc.
Increased wage costs where contracts renegotiated 're Bonne etc and increase in squad size.
Director of football cost.
Smaller amounts to get out of onerous or non performing contracts.
Is interest being charged on loans from the owners?
Plus Bazzas rent
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:02 pm
by spen666
Buddy Manucci wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 1:50 pm
Spen has not been a season ticket holder here for 20 years, just not having it.
Like it or not, its true.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:11 pm
by Thor
You also have to factor in the costs associated with building out our infrastructure, the ticketing system didn’t work, we didn’t have a bank account, problem with our VAT registration the club was in a dire mess. The list of what was wrong would have no doubt been huge, to put all those thing right costs money, in people, in time and systems. Wages will also be an issue in so far as they are high in comparison to others and being in London will always attract a premium rate and that will never change.
Now I must admit I like what I see, what I read and what the owners are trying to achieve. They’ve improved the catering, they’ve improved the ticketing, they’ve improved the communication with the fans and access to them personally as well. They have improved the scouting, the football side of things and most of all our relationship with the club once more. The commercial side has been ramped up to help with the growth of the business all that costs upfront money which in time would be recouped from the said increase in turnover. They have in my eyes taken all the right steps to put the business on a secure footing and then gone out to find new or improved revenue streams to support the business and its long term aims. All good stuff.
So yes we made a loss this past financial year, yes we will make a loss this financial year however, I would like to think that the losses will shrink down over time to a manageable level and with the right return on investments in youth players we might even get to the magic break even point or the world of profit.
The only concern I have is the loans we owe too the owners, we discussed this previously and I trust the comment made of them being written off, just not sure when though.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:13 pm
by Esteban
spen666 wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 4:02 pm
Buddy Manucci wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 1:50 pm
Spen has not been a season ticket holder here for 20 years, just not having it.
Like it or not, its true.
A season ticket is a lot of money to spend on a club you don't even support.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:13 pm
by Thor
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 4:00 pm
Hang on a minute before this speculative speculation goes any further. Have we not already accounted for most of the £2m. i.e.
£1.2m drop in revenue from league between L2 and NL.
Paying up managers and players contracts who were terminated. Davis, Mooney, Elokobi etc.
Increased wage costs where contracts renegotiated 're Bonne etc and increase in squad size.
Director of football cost.
Smaller amounts to get out of onerous or non performing contracts.
Is interest being charged on loans from the owners?
Most of what you quote would be over two accounting years with one of them being this year. So yes some of it has been seen some of it will show in the next set of published figures. I don’t believe that interest is being added to the loans.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:21 pm
by gshaw
Should get larger gate receipts next season from visiting sides plus back to full TV money again so that's a step in the right direction.
May need to cash in on one (or maybe even two) of our assets this summer to level things up on the books. If we have to let anyone go (for a move to a higher level) now is the best time to do it with plenty of time to scout suitable replacements over summer. Transfer fee would need to make it worthwhile though.
Out of interest has Hearn's planned rent rise been documented anywhere? Has it risen to the £200k mark now?
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:34 pm
by A Pedant
The directors say that no interest is being charged on directors' loans, no reason to doubt them on this.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:02 pm
by Max B Gold
Thor wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 4:13 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 4:00 pm
Hang on a minute before this speculative speculation goes any further. Have we not already accounted for most of the £2m. i.e.
£1.2m drop in revenue from league between L2 and NL.
Paying up managers and players contracts who were terminated. Davis, Mooney, Elokobi etc.
Increased wage costs where contracts renegotiated 're Bonne etc and increase in squad size.
Director of football cost.
Smaller amounts to get out of onerous or non performing contracts.
Is interest being charged on loans from the owners?
Most of what you quote would be over two accounting years with one of them being this year. So yes some of it has been seen some of it will show in the next set of published figures. I don’t believe that interest is being added to the loans.
Don't get me started on accounting periods.
I will take the owners word at face value and accept for now that no interest is being charged on the loans.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:12 pm
by Byways1
Thor wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 4:11 pm
You also have to factor in the costs associated with building out our infrastructure, the ticketing system didn’t work, we didn’t have a bank account, problem with our VAT registration the club was in a dire mess. The list of what was wrong would have no doubt been huge, to put all those thing right costs money, in people, in time and systems. Wages will also be an issue in so far as they are high in comparison to others and being in London will always attract a premium rate and that will never change.
Now I must admit I like what I see, what I read and what the owners are trying to achieve. They’ve improved the catering, they’ve improved the ticketing, they’ve improved the communication with the fans and access to them personally as well. They have improved the scouting, the football side of things and most of all our relationship with the club once more. The commercial side has been ramped up to help with the growth of the business all that costs upfront money which in time would be recouped from the said increase in turnover. They have in my eyes taken all the right steps to put the business on a secure footing and then gone out to find new or improved revenue streams to support the business and its long term aims. All good stuff.
So yes we made a loss this past financial year, yes we will make a loss this financial year however, I would like to think that the losses will shrink down over time to a manageable level and with the right return on investments in youth players we might even get to the magic break even point or the world of profit.
The only concern I have is the loans we owe too the owners, we discussed this previously and I trust the comment made of them being written off, just not sure when though.
The owners are doing a tremendous job.
The biggest challenge they face is building the fan base.
All the previous owners have tried different initiatives like Friday night football, and kick offs at 8 pm in the 70s under Brian Winston, and all have failed.
We survived in L2 between 70/82 with a fan base of about 6000, be interesting to see if the owners can improve on that.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:40 pm
by Thor
Well we grew our fan base this season and hopefully it will improve again next season.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:46 pm
by Byways1
Thor wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 8:40 pm
Well we grew our fan base this season and hopefully it will improve again next season.
Well they seem to be making all the right moves.
Can’t recall any previous owners being so proactive.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:13 pm
by aylesburyos
The area is on the up. Kent looked at future population increases in E10 particularly professional moving in when buying the club
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:48 pm
by Thor
See it’s the little details like that, that make a difference. He’s looking at demographics etc. Can you imagine what he’s like when running a business? This is one reason why we will continue to have success, it’s about details and I’ve not seen an Orient owner look into such detial, Hearn included.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:50 pm
by Disoriented
Thor wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 9:48 pm
See it’s the little details like that, that make a difference. He’s looking at demographics etc. Can you imagine what he’s like when running a business? This is one reason why we will continue to have success, it’s about details and I’ve not seen an Orient owner look into such detial, Hearn included.
What rubbish you speak. You think Travis is the only person to run a business?
Stick to your designer gear mentality fella.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:52 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 4:00 pm
Hang on a minute before this speculative speculation goes any further. Have we not already accounted for most of the £2m. i.e.
£1.2m drop in revenue from league between L2 and NL.
Paying up managers and players contracts who were terminated. Davis, Mooney, Elokobi etc.
Increased wage costs where contracts renegotiated 're Bonne etc and increase in squad size.
Director of football cost.
Smaller amounts to get out of onerous or non performing contracts.
Is interest being charged on loans from the owners?
Not sure what you’re trying to do with those numbers?
Given the directors have written the loans off, although not officially just verbally, there’s no point in them charging interest is there? So can’t see that they would have.
I know some people are getting a bit funny about these loans being written off but not being written off but don’t worry. If the chairman of Orient comes out with such a statement, it’s as good as legally binding.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:53 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
Thor wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 9:48 pm
See it’s the little details like that, that make a difference. He’s looking at demographics etc. Can you imagine what he’s like when running a business? This is one reason why we will continue to have success, it’s about details and I’ve not seen an Orient owner look into such detial, Hearn included.
That’s really not a little detail.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:54 pm
by Disoriented
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 9:53 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 9:48 pm
See it’s the little details like that, that make a difference. He’s looking at demographics etc. Can you imagine what he’s like when running a business? This is one reason why we will continue to have success, it’s about details and I’ve not seen an Orient owner look into such detial, Hearn included.
That’s really not a little detail.
Thora does have a very simplistic view of things, much like Tommy Hilfiger.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:55 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
Thor wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 4:11 pm
You also have to factor in the costs associated with building out our infrastructure, the ticketing system didn’t work, we didn’t have a bank account, problem with our VAT registration the club was in a dire mess. The list of what was wrong would have no doubt been huge, to put all those thing right costs money, in people, in time and systems. Wages will also be an issue in so far as they are high in comparison to others and being in London will always attract a premium rate and that will never change.
Now I must admit I like what I see, what I read and what the owners are trying to achieve. They’ve improved the catering, they’ve improved the ticketing, they’ve improved the communication with the fans and access to them personally as well. They have improved the scouting, the football side of things and most of all our relationship with the club once more. The commercial side has been ramped up to help with the growth of the business all that costs upfront money which in time would be recouped from the said increase in turnover. They have in my eyes taken all the right steps to put the business on a secure footing and then gone out to find new or improved revenue streams to support the business and its long term aims. All good stuff.
So yes we made a loss this past financial year, yes we will make a loss this financial year however, I would like to think that the losses will shrink down over time to a manageable level and with the right return on investments in youth players we might even get to the magic break even point or the world of profit.
The only concern I have is the loans we owe too the owners, we discussed this previously and I trust the comment made of them being written off, just not sure when though.
Agreed with all of the above.
Other than getting into a profit making position. It won’t happen, it’s just not possible.
Kent and Nigel both know that.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 10:22 pm
by eagwgw
Just don't see the roadmap to profitabilty myself.
If we did get promoted into League One, it's not as if we could take our foot off the pedal, as we'd risk going down.
If we lose £1.1m on a 5,000 League Two campaign, the loss would probably be greater even if we averaged 6,000 in League One, as the going rate for players also increase and is skewed by the competition. A good League One player might earn double what a good League Two one does.
Getting into the Championship would be great for the club and could see a real transformation. But for a small(er) club to get there requires a load of cash, Bournemouth and Brentford both lost £5m+.
Wouldn't mind knowing Teague's endgame. Is he really going to throw £1m a year at us for tax breaks for the next decade? One might think if it really was that, you could make charitable donations which also give the same. £1m a year would make a difference to people's lives around the world; by contrast we are just a small football club. But then again, those donations are sunk costs, investing in a football club at least gives the chance of a return some day.
I don't buy that it is totally altruistic, and therefore I don't see the loans will be written off, but neither should they be. At some stage I would hope that the club runs itself in a way that it can pay back his investment and more (which I am sure why he invested in us in the first place). Short of a couple of freak promotions the only way to me seems to be becoming a trading club, choosing to buy low and sell high.
Re: How much money do we actually have?
Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 12:58 am
by Max B Gold
Academy is now secure.
Pipeline is good for future talent.
We are now talking £1m for Bonne, Koroma , Happe. Not this year but next.
Hole in the finances plugged.
