Independent Leyton Orient Forum

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:41 pm Course lockdown & social distancing is awful, but its better than dying
We have it it pretty relaxed here. In continental Europe, the lockdown was a proper lockdown where you had to have a pass from the government to go out, and those who were caught outside without one were dealt with severely.
This talk about the economy gets on my tits...who cares about the f*cking economy..thousands of people are dying for gods sake. The amount of money being spent by the government is far less that it was for the Iraqui war, and for the farce that was Afghanistan .
Every country is in the same boat, so no one will have an advantage.
I want the lockdown to last as long as people are dying, because I value humanity more than money

Tony Blair was a good leader who made a balls of his reputation by sleep walking into a war in Iraq that destabilised the whole region and ultimately unleashed Al Queda and Isis.

Boris reputation on the other hand, history will not be kind and it will be well deserved.

Roads round here are now70% full. A lot of people have given up.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:17 pm Roads round here are now70% full. A lot of people have given up.

well then maybe it's not the governments fault as much as the british people getting what they deserve.

Agree. People clap for the NHS for a week and now think they have done their bit. Humans utterly selfish shocker.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:17 pm Roads round here are now70% full. A lot of people have given up.

Evidence?

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:41 pm Course lockdown & social distancing is awful, but its better than dying
We have it it pretty relaxed here. In continental Europe, the lockdown was a proper lockdown where you had to have a pass from the government to go out, and those who were caught outside without one were dealt with severely.
This talk about the economy gets on my tits...who cares about the f*cking economy..thousands of people are dying for gods sake. The amount of money being spent by the government is far less that it was for the Iraqui war, and for the farce that was Afghanistan .
Every country is in the same boat, so no one will have an advantage.
I want the lockdown to last as long as people are dying, because I value humanity more than money

You talk as though people had never died before the corona virus came along. About 170k people die in the UK every year from heart disease alone, and a similar number from cancer.

You have to care about the economy, because there is far worse in store for the country if the economy goes completely belly up. I read a stat the other day (though I have not verified it) that said in the US, for every person who had died (and their average age is over 80) 700 people had lost their jobs, many with families to support. At what point does the straw break the camel's back? 7000, a million?

Nobody wants to see anybody dying - though some on here think most Tories do - especially the tragically avoidable deaths (like exposure of key works through not having the right PPE) but people are going to die from this, it's an illness, and shutting people away forever won't fix it, shutting people away will help to get it manageable so far as not overwhelming the NHS goes, and then the lockdown will end gradually. I suspect vulnerable and older people will be asked to stay indoors for months until a vaccine or drugs to treat it are widely available.

And I'd check your facts on how much was spent on the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars vs how much the corona virus is projected to cost.

If you really want lockdown to last as long as people are dying, then lockdown will be going on for months because we are going to be with this thing for a long time yet.

It's a horrible no-win situation, nobody denies that, but it is not as simple as money vs death.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:26 pm

Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:17 pm Roads round here are now70% full. A lot of people have given up.

Evidence?

No. Wild stab in the dark. Yes.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:26 pm

Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:17 pm Roads round here are now70% full. A lot of people have given up.

Evidence?

Come on. Get out there with your phone and put the video on here

Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:17 pm Roads round here are now70% full. A lot of people have given up.

Video please

He's already admitted he's just guessing.

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:50 pm Nobody wants to see anybody dying - though some on here think most Tories do -

It's not that they want to see people die, it's that they're not that fussed and prioritise the economy.

(I accept there may well be some who do get off on watching people die, but I'll leave that to 'TW' to sort).

Once people start going down like flies and people know someone who has had a bad case of Covid19. People will be only too happy to self-isolate. Personally I have known only 2 with the virus, both in South Wales. But both had a very nasty experience. When I was in my late teens, I studied Biology and know a bit about viruses. I am pretty fastidious about protecting myself. I don't find it much of a hardship keeping my distance from twats. I kinda feel sorry for people who are not working and not got much coming in. Surely though, this is an ideal time for them to make a new start. There are plenty jobs going, if you want to retrain as : a doctor, nurse, care worker , teacher, laboratory worker, social worker, screw, paramedic, cleaner. A fair measure of different skills in that lot. I hope none of the moaners are Estate Agents or Solicitors.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:15 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:50 pm Nobody wants to see anybody dying - though some on here think most Tories do -

It's not that they want to see people die, it's that they're not that fussed and prioritise the economy.

(I accept there may well be some who do get off on watching people die, but I'll leave that to 'TW' to sort).

This story from the BBC today (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52393472) says that the economic hit could be worse than anything seen for several centuries, and a £260bn deficit. That doesn't sound like much of a prioritisation of the economy to me.

The govt prioritised the NHS not falling over and have largely succeeded in that, though failed unacceptably in some other areas, like not planning properly around PPE and the consequences of that to front line staff.

They had planned to carry on regardless, take it on the chin, remover our spectacles and go all Superman as we held on for longer than other nations. Or what other quotes Boris was giving out at the time.

But they f*cked it up.

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:39 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:15 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:50 pm Nobody wants to see anybody dying - though some on here think most Tories do -

It's not that they want to see people die, it's that they're not that fussed and prioritise the economy.

(I accept there may well be some who do get off on watching people die, but I'll leave that to 'TW' to sort).

This story from the BBC today (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52393472) says that the economic hit could be worse than anything seen for several centuries, and a £260bn deficit. That doesn't sound like much of a prioritisation of the economy to me.

The govt prioritised the NHS not falling over and have largely succeeded in that, though failed unacceptably in some other areas, like not planning properly around PPE and the consequences of that to front line staff.

"failed unacceptably in some other areas" - like all of them you mean. It could easily be argued that if we hadn't had so many austerity cuts to the NHS over the years, which left us with only 4000 ICU beds when the virus hit - compared to 28000 ICU beds in Germany - then we would have had many less deaths. All the Tories other screw ups have been well documented, even by the Sunday times. How anyone can look positively at anything that this government has done during this crisis is beyond me.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:22 am I dont think its the Tories who are opening stuff up, businesses are taking it upon themselves by the looks of it due to the lack of leadership from the govt.

Seems to me that Donald may be right, the cure cannot be worse than the disease!

Can you just give us a list of all the things you think are worse than being dead?

The left had told us that austerity has killed loads of people so i imagine destroying the economy will do a bit more of that. Once again the young will pay the price for the old.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:09 pm The left had told us that austerity has killed loads of people so i imagine destroying the economy will do a bit more of that. Once again the young will pay the price for the old.

Well if "the young" had turned out for the last GE we might be looking at a different scenario. Not that you're young of course.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:09 pm The left had told us that austerity has killed loads of people so i imagine destroying the economy will do a bit more of that. Once again the young will pay the price for the old.

Well the Tory government have certainly sidled
you with debt , making sure the furloughed the laid off & buisness owners have wages.

RoryRocks wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:13 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:41 pm Course lockdown & social distancing is awful, but its better than dying
We have it it pretty relaxed here. In continental Europe, the lockdown was a proper lockdown where you had to have a pass from the government to go out, and those who were caught outside without one were dealt with severely.
This talk about the economy gets on my tits...who cares about the f*cking economy..thousands of people are dying for gods sake. The amount of money being spent by the government is far less that it was for the Iraqui war, and for the farce that was Afghanistan .
Every country is in the same boat, so no one will have an advantage.
I want the lockdown to last as long as people are dying, because I value humanity more than money

Tony Blair was a good leader who made a balls of his reputation by sleep walking into a war in Iraq that destabilised the whole region and ultimately unleashed Al Queda and Isis.

Boris reputation on the other hand, history will not be kind and it will be well deserved.

IMO, Blair did not ‘sleep walk’, he was totally wide awake when he latched onto Bush’s coat tails with a vice-like grip.

Orient_Man_And_Boy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:39 pm

RoryRocks wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:13 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:41 pm Course lockdown & social distancing is awful, but its better than dying
We have it it pretty relaxed here. In continental Europe, the lockdown was a proper lockdown where you had to have a pass from the government to go out, and those who were caught outside without one were dealt with severely.
This talk about the economy gets on my tits...who cares about the f*cking economy..thousands of people are dying for gods sake. The amount of money being spent by the government is far less that it was for the Iraqui war, and for the farce that was Afghanistan .
Every country is in the same boat, so no one will have an advantage.
I want the lockdown to last as long as people are dying, because I value humanity more than money

Tony Blair was a good leader who made a balls of his reputation by sleep walking into a war in Iraq that destabilised the whole region and ultimately unleashed Al Queda and Isis.

Boris reputation on the other hand, history will not be kind and it will be well deserved.

IMO, Blair did not ‘sleep walk’, he was totally wide awake when he latched onto Bush’s coat tails with a vice-like grip.

Wasnt it a case of what Bush said

You're either with us or
Your with the terrorists .

Dont seem to remember to many people
moaning at the time.

The Suns front cover of a corrugated tin roof
over a well with the headline .
Drone spots site of wmd's .

There was a politician who voted against it though.
I wonder if anyone can guess who ?

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:10 pm

Orient_Man_And_Boy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:39 pm

RoryRocks wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:13 pm

Tony Blair was a good leader who made a balls of his reputation by sleep walking into a war in Iraq that destabilised the whole region and ultimately unleashed Al Queda and Isis.

Boris reputation on the other hand, history will not be kind and it will be well deserved.

IMO, Blair did not ‘sleep walk’, he was totally wide awake when he latched onto Bush’s coat tails with a vice-like grip.

Dont seem to remember to many people
moaning at the time.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:55 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:10 pm

Orient_Man_And_Boy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:39 pm

IMO, Blair did not ‘sleep walk’, he was totally wide awake when he latched onto Bush’s coat tails with a vice-like grip.

Dont seem to remember to many people
moaning at the time.

At the time i said

Not on the orient message board 15 years later !!

Bit late now

I think there were a fair few people who were against it at the time, from memory.

Yup i was one
Labour centreist
But plenty were happy to

2003 vote
Only 149 voted against
84 labour 52 lib dems 5 snp 4 plaid 2 Tories & a couple of independents.
412 for
254 labour 146 tories 11 unionists & 1 independent .

So again , he only followed what was passed b6 a westminster gov't &
If you think he should be prosecuted , then so should every pm through History , present & future