Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:11 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:23 pm Could these people who are 'feeling fitter' be doing so because they are consuming fewer calories and more veg?

You always ruin it don't you?

Sure it's part of it although I do feel less bloated, heavy and tired than before. Might be the columbian talc that's making things better though.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:57 pm Why do people who eat meat feel the need to comment about how amazing it is too eat meat. You know, just had a great big bacon sarnie blah blah. It’s like the god thing, atheists always have to talk about fairies in the sky or whatever rather than just wishing someone who has faith good luck. I eat a small amount of meat and would love to stop completely but would never be able to. Good luck to those that can. The world will be a better place without animal suffering.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:06 pm

Kent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:02 pm Animals are killed = cruel
+
Animals are treated cruelly in food production = fact

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:36 pm Eating meat doesnt mean I approve of animal cruelty.

Animals are killed = life
+
Animals are treated cruelly in food production = fact and that is why I try to buy higher quality and welfare meat

Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:57 pm Why do people who eat meat feel the need to comment about how amazing it is too eat meat. You know, just had a great big bacon sarnie blah blah. It’s like the god thing, atheists always have to talk about fairies in the sky or whatever rather than just wishing someone who has faith good luck. I eat a small amount of meat and would love to stop completely but would never be able to. Good luck to those that can. The world will be a better place without animal suffering.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:22 pm

Kent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:02 pm Animals are killed = cruel
+
Animals are treated cruelly in food production = fact

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:36 pm Eating meat doesnt mean I approve of animal cruelty.

These Animals are bred specifically for the food industry.
These are not animals that just happened to appear .
They have been bred to be slaughtered.


The only thing i see in the link you showed was
severely untrained unskilled workers.

Kent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:23 pm A living thing reared for the food industry by whom? By humans! That’s doesn’t excuse it. And in reality animals existed already not invented by humans; however irrespective of their etymology It does not give us the right to slaughter or mistreat another living thing.

There is sympathy for a dog being killed for food In other countries. Is that morally wrong or correct based on the simple fact of the heritage of its rearing?

So what you saw is an exception? Probably not. Even if it’s a rarity how you be sure the food you eat is not from those places?

I could easily post up utterly (almost) unwatchable practices in slaughterhouses where live animals are regularly disposed of in barbaric ways. Or animals kept for food or milk against their nature in absolutely unbearable cages for the appetites of humans. Feel free to search for yourself...

Each of us make our minds up differently

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:22 pm

Kent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:02 pm Animals are killed = cruel
+
Animals are treated cruelly in food production = fact

These Animals are bred specifically for the food industry.
These are not animals that just happened to appear .
They have been bred to be slaughtered.


The only thing i see in the link you showed was
severely untrained unskilled workers.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:30 pm Only from the age of 18 until i was maybe 30
Did i eat meat everyday.

Only eat meat maybe 2-3 times a week now
Much as i did when i was a kid.

I wouldnt class myself as a meat eater a vegan or a vegetarian or a pescatarian.

Far to many labels these days.

It does make me laugh at the laziness of vegetarian vegan projects calling things
Veggie sausage rolls or quorn bacon slices etc.

Just call it something new ffs .
Id rather try something new & tasty than compare it to something its trying not to be.

Had a Vegetarian pastie at the O's last season for the 1st time.Best thing id ever eaten at the O's .

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:30 pm I killed my 1st living creature when i was about 7
On a boat in the atlantic of the coast of Ireland .

We went to its naturall habitat to kill it for food

Kent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:23 pm A living thing reared for the food industry by whom? By humans! That’s doesn’t excuse it. And in reality animals existed already not invented by humans; however irrespective of their etymology It does not give us the right to slaughter or mistreat another living thing.

There is sympathy for a dog being killed for food In other countries. Is that morally wrong or correct based on the simple fact of the heritage of its rearing?

So what you saw is an exception? Probably not. Even if it’s a rarity how you be sure the food you eat is not from those places?

I could easily post up utterly (almost) unwatchable practices in slaughterhouses where live animals are regularly disposed of in barbaric ways. Or animals kept for food or milk against their nature in absolutely unbearable cages for the appetites of humans. Feel free to search for yourself...

Each of us make our minds up differently

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:22 pm

These Animals are bred specifically for the food industry.
These are not animals that just happened to appear .
They have been bred to be slaughtered.


The only thing i see in the link you showed was
severely untrained unskilled workers.

The farming industry does not go into the animals natural habitat to take animals & then breed them .

It might have done so a thousand years ago but not now
Now it is a Science .
They pick the best males to cover the best females to
Produce whatever product there is.

The animals on a farm are in general treated well.

Only on the Factory styled farms do they become
potential for bad welfare.

Personally i have no gripe about people protecting animals . I just dont see animals in general being treated as badly as you do.

Kent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:51 pm The question centres on Veganism and the issue around cruelty and killing. Just a thought but if one accepts that killing animals is fine then all other posts are irrelevant. If one accepts its morally repugnant to kill animals (as I clearly do) then all other considerations are also redundant I’d say...who knows!

As for farms not using cruel practices. I would suggest watching some more images of the type I displayed (nighttime watching!)...

Not killing animals does not exclude birds and fish. Birds are killed in the air and fish in the sea of course! (natural habitats.) this is not exclusive to frame and farming. Factory farming exists all over the world. Quite a chuck of the produce we eat is not killed or produced in the UK if you want to exclude our country from this debate.

Yes killing can indeed be referred to a science! I agree with you that it is; just disgusting to me that the collective conscious normalises this...

Maybe this thread and my response should have been about killing certain animals or respecting some animals cruelty. As that seems generally to be the opinion. Killing a Lion “it’s disgraceful, these people should be locked up”. Kill a farmed animal.. ok. And yet both breathe and feel and suffer

Anyway I’m done. Have fun...

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:30 pm I killed my 1st living creature when i was about 7
On a boat in the atlantic of the coast of Ireland .

We went to its naturall habitat to kill it for food

Kent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:23 pm A living thing reared for the food industry by whom? By humans! That’s doesn’t excuse it. And in reality animals existed already not invented by humans; however irrespective of their etymology It does not give us the right to slaughter or mistreat another living thing.

There is sympathy for a dog being killed for food In other countries. Is that morally wrong or correct based on the simple fact of the heritage of its rearing?

So what you saw is an exception? Probably not. Even if it’s a rarity how you be sure the food you eat is not from those places?

I could easily post up utterly (almost) unwatchable practices in slaughterhouses where live animals are regularly disposed of in barbaric ways. Or animals kept for food or milk against their nature in absolutely unbearable cages for the appetites of humans. Feel free to search for yourself...

Each of us make our minds up differently

The farming industry does not go into the animals natural habitat to take animals & then breed them .

It might have done so a thousand years ago but not now
Now it is a Science .
They pick the best males to cover the best females to
Produce whatever product there is.

The animals on a farm are in general treated well.

Only on the Factory styled farms do they become
potential for bad welfare.

Personally i have no gripe about people protecting animals . I just dont see animals in general being treated as badly as you do.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:02 pm I can imagine a future where eating a real steak will be the sort of thing only the wealthiest 1% can do.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:57 pm Why do people who eat meat feel the need to comment about how amazing it is too eat meat. You know, just had a great big bacon sarnie blah blah. It’s like the god thing, atheists always have to talk about fairies in the sky or whatever rather than just wishing someone who has faith good luck. I eat a small amount of meat and would love to stop completely but would never be able to. Good luck to those that can. The world will be a better place without animal suffering.

George wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:39 pm I stopped eating red meat some time ago. I don’t see the need for it. You can eat chicken , duck , pheasant, pigeon. Waitrose sell them all now. I know it’s still cruel but health wise it’s better for you.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:36 pm Eating meat doesnt mean I approve of animal cruelty.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:22 pm

Kent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:02 pm Animals are killed = cruel
+
Animals are treated cruelly in food production = fact

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:36 pm Eating meat doesnt mean I approve of animal cruelty.

These Animals are bred specifically for the food industry.
These are not animals that just happened to appear .
They have been bred to be slaughtered.


The only thing i see in the link you showed was
severely untrained unskilled workers.

VeganO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:14 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:22 pm

Kent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:02 pm Animals are killed = cruel
+
Animals are treated cruelly in food production = fact

These Animals are bred specifically for the food industry.
These are not animals that just happened to appear .
They have been bred to be slaughtered.


The only thing i see in the link you showed was
severely untrained unskilled workers.

Ah I get it now - the animals bred to be slaughtered are not sentient creatures like other animals so it doesn't matter. Bizarre.

VeganO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:27 pm You won't be surprised that I am vegan & have been since 1983.
It's good to see that many are either giving up meat or cutting down.
At the end of the day it is the killing of sentient animals for our taste buds.
It is nonsense to suggest that abbatoirs are humane, a Google search & looking at info produced by groups such as Animal Aid & VIVA will dispel that myth.
Before anyone accuses me of imposing my will on others, anyone who consumes animals is imposing their will on animals slaughtered for food.
Choices have consequences.
Stuffers- thats a ridiculous argument about not existing if it weren't for the meat industry. You wouldn't want to be killed for food so why is it ok that animals are?

VeganO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:27 pm You won't be surprised that I am vegan & have been since 1983.
It's good to see that many are either giving up meat or cutting down.
At the end of the day it is the killing of sentient animals for our taste buds.
It is nonsense to suggest that abbatoirs are humane, a Google search & looking at info produced by groups such as Animal Aid & VIVA will dispel that myth.
Before anyone accuses me of imposing my will on others, anyone who consumes animals is imposing their will on animals slaughtered for food.
Choices have consequences.
Stuffers- thats a ridiculous argument about not existing if it weren't for the meat industry. You wouldn't want to be killed for food so why is it ok that animals are?

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:32 pm

VeganO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:27 pm You won't be surprised that I am vegan & have been since 1983.
It's good to see that many are either giving up meat or cutting down.
At the end of the day it is the killing of sentient animals for our taste buds.
It is nonsense to suggest that abbatoirs are humane, a Google search & looking at info produced by groups such as Animal Aid & VIVA will dispel that myth.
Before anyone accuses me of imposing my will on others, anyone who consumes animals is imposing their will on animals slaughtered for food.
Choices have consequences.
Stuffers- thats a ridiculous argument about not existing if it weren't for the meat industry. You wouldn't want to be killed for food so why is it ok that animals are?

If the Dinosaurs were still around today id be dinner for 1 of them.
I have no problem with that knowledge

This belief that we are not entitled to kill animals is a joke.

Why are you not in africa protesting against the lions who slaughter wilderbeast or zebra
or any other animal that happens to cross there path .

Can you not educate them ?

Human beings experience free will

To eat what we choose .

It is not cruelty to kill an animal for sustinance .
It is the way of Nature.

If you dont like it talk to whoever it was who may have created it.

VeganO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:39 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:32 pm

VeganO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:27 pm You won't be surprised that I am vegan & have been since 1983.
It's good to see that many are either giving up meat or cutting down.
At the end of the day it is the killing of sentient animals for our taste buds.
It is nonsense to suggest that abbatoirs are humane, a Google search & looking at info produced by groups such as Animal Aid & VIVA will dispel that myth.
Before anyone accuses me of imposing my will on others, anyone who consumes animals is imposing their will on animals slaughtered for food.
Choices have consequences.
Stuffers- thats a ridiculous argument about not existing if it weren't for the meat industry. You wouldn't want to be killed for food so why is it ok that animals are?

If the Dinosaurs were still around today id be dinner for 1 of them.
I have no problem with that knowledge

This belief that we are not entitled to kill animals is a joke.

Why are you not in africa protesting against the lions who slaughter wilderbeast or zebra
or any other animal that happens to cross there path .

Can you not educate them ?

Human beings experience free will

To eat what we choose .

It is not cruelty to kill an animal for sustinance .
It is the way of Nature.

If you dont like it talk to whoever it was who may have created it.

Your arguments get ever more ridiculous. We are entitled in your view to kill sentient animals for food but presumably not other sentient beings - humans.
Utterly illogical. All sentient beings are entitled to not be killed for food in my view. I make no distinction.