Independent Leyton Orient Forum

There is some madness being spoken of in this thread. Tuffers is talking sense, although in his last comment the way the club is set up is exactly the reason why a head coach should be able to mould a team from what is left behind by the previous incumbent. The dof is the barrier that ensures that wholesale changes don’t need to be made to either the coaching team and or players, it’s a sensible way to run a football club in the modern game. However, it is to my knowledge the first time such a setup has had the major player sadly pass away who has been successful whilst in the role.

Saying that above however, does not lead to people to have an easy run of things with the sad passing as an excuse to carry on making wrong decisions. I have been critical of ling, but I’ve also said overall he has done a decent job in his role. The one sticking point we have is the head coach role and we keep on getting that wrong. That should be questioned by the owners and challenged by the fans as we can see quite clearly that Ross is way out of his depth. I would not have put him in that position to start with, I’d have left him as a coach as he had proven himself to have been competent in the role and Justin had even said so himself. Now he has been thrown to the wolves and will in all probability have to leave the club at some point. I don’t see it happening this season and we will live or fall by that decision.

What needs to happen at some point is the critical analysis of what has happened this season and seek answers to the decision makings process that we currently have in place. Justin’s sad passing has had a massive impact over where we stand today however, decisions should not have been compromised due to what happened. We should have sought out a man in a similar stamp to Justin, a man manager, a motivator and a man with a plan and pathway to go from a to b and then execute that plan and see where we go. Instead we have bounced from a to b to c without any of that in place and that’s the problem here.

Travis and Teague have done wonderful things since they have been owners and are taking the club to a level of professionalism that may in time exceed any other I’ve seen since I’ve supported the club. Danny has been an excellent appointment and is doing a brilliant job, of that there is no doubt. I personally am fully behind them however, as absent owners at some point they need to be “more hands on” especially in such crucial and critical times like we have been through this past six months.

After the 1st half performance it us pretty obvious what happened .

The Players are not upto scratch.
Players need to be given specific roles

It seems obvious to me that while the players may respect Ross for his coaching ability
They dont seem to carry the respect for him as there manager.

If that is the case then change needs to happen.

Either the players start to Believe in Ross & his message
Or he goes.
Personally whatever happens , we will survive this season .
Then the club can look again from next june

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:18 pm I apologise in advance for the cliche but it is a results based business.

We aren't getting the results. Its no more complicated than that.

No need to apologise. If even ‘fans’ like Tiff are turning against the junta, it is time for them to make immediate decisions. Videos from the States aren’t going to cut it.

Story of O wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:04 pm "Because JE passed away & decent managers didnt apply we were left with the fool who was Mr YES/No Fletcher."

I thought we had quite a few apply.

Were they all Top drawer managers ?
Did any of them have win ratios above 40 % ?
We dont know who applied

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:25 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:18 pm I apologise in advance for the cliche but it is a results based business.

We aren't getting the results. Its no more complicated than that.

No need to apologise. If even ‘fans’ like Tiff are turning against the junta, it is time for them to make immediate decisions. Videos from the States aren’t going to cut it.

Junta ?


Playground protesters more like
Dross interest

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:34 pm At the risk of getting a load of abuse here, I'm fed up to the back teeth hearing about JE's passing in relation to how this club is run. It was a terrible thing to happen but let's now leave the grieving to his family and friends. I know he has friends still in the club but they are employees of the club first, and friends second I'm afraid.

We need to get the club back on to a professional footing where it is run positively - looking to the future only. There is zero point in looking back and second guessing what Justin might have done. If the current crop of management can't do this then they should go, en masse, and make way for new blood to come in and start afresh.

Glad someone actually came out and said that.

Well done fella.

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:34 pm At the risk of getting a load of abuse here, I'm fed up to the back teeth hearing about JE's passing in relation to how this club is run. It was a terrible thing to happen but let's now leave the grieving to his family and friends. I know he has friends still in the club but they are employees of the club first, and friends second I'm afraid.

We need to get the club back on to a professional footing where it is run positively - looking to the future only. There is zero point in looking back and second guessing what Justin might have done. If the current crop of management can't do this then they should go, en masse, and make way for new blood to come in and start afresh.

His friends as in the many people still at the club who worked with him every day? JE's passing has sadly shown we have some proper f*cking toxic entitled fans.

I still can’t beleive that Justin has gone, a man in his prime and at the top of his game (his profession) with everything to live for. That’s when you stop and think how cruel life can be sometimes.

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:03 am I still can’t beleive that Justin has gone, a man in his prime and at the top of his game (his profession) with everything to live for. That’s when you stop and think how cruel life can be sometimes.

True, but BoneO has a good point.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:14 am

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:03 am I still can’t beleive that Justin has gone, a man in his prime and at the top of his game (his profession) with everything to live for. That’s when you stop and think how cruel life can be sometimes.

True, but BoneO has a good point.

He makes a good point
But it is not the ONLY POINT.

Ill keep banging my drum.
If JE was still alive he'd be in charge
Or he'd have been sacked.
It will take to the close season to deal with it fully.

Players in & out
Staff in & out
Owners in or out.

It is not as your hate filled self, continues to believe
All the Fault of Martin Ling or Ross Embleton.

Exactly this. It was always going to be a difficult year with the players and staff trying to come to terms with the loss of JE. I think it’s blindingly obvious that we can’t continue like this, but I’m not sure how BoneheadO thinks we should have approached the situation any differently given all these people were under contract at the time at least until the end of this season. Unless he thinks we could have torn them all up right away and started completely afresh of course.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:22 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:14 am

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:03 am I still can’t beleive that Justin has gone, a man in his prime and at the top of his game (his profession) with everything to live for. That’s when you stop and think how cruel life can be sometimes.

True, but BoneO has a good point.

He makes a good point
But it is not the ONLY POINT.

Ill keep banging my drum.
If JE was still alive he'd be in charge
Or he'd have been sacked.
It will take to the close season to deal with it fully.

Players in & out
Staff in & out
Owners in or out.

It is not as your hate filled self, continues to believe
All the Fault of Martin Ling or Ross Embleton.

True, not all but an overwhelming percentage is the DOF. Teague and Travers have to take responsibility for allowing the situation to drag on.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:40 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:22 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:14 am

True, but BoneO has a good point.

He makes a good point
But it is not the ONLY POINT.

Ill keep banging my drum.
If JE was still alive he'd be in charge
Or he'd have been sacked.
It will take to the close season to deal with it fully.

Players in & out
Staff in & out
Owners in or out.

It is not as your hate filled self, continues to believe
All the Fault of Martin Ling or Ross Embleton.

True, not all but an overwhelming percentage is the DOF. Teague and Travers have to take responsibility for allowing the situation to drag on.

Travers? Who’s he

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:43 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:40 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:22 am

He makes a good point
But it is not the ONLY POINT.

Ill keep banging my drum.
If JE was still alive he'd be in charge
Or he'd have been sacked.
It will take to the close season to deal with it fully.

Players in & out
Staff in & out
Owners in or out.

It is not as your hate filled self, continues to believe
All the Fault of Martin Ling or Ross Embleton.

True, not all but an overwhelming percentage is the DOF. Teague and Travers have to take responsibility for allowing the situation to drag on.

Travers? Who’s he

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:40 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:22 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:14 am

True, but BoneO has a good point.

He makes a good point
But it is not the ONLY POINT.

Ill keep banging my drum.
If JE was still alive he'd be in charge
Or he'd have been sacked.
It will take to the close season to deal with it fully.

Players in & out
Staff in & out
Owners in or out.

It is not as your hate filled self, continues to believe
All the Fault of Martin Ling or Ross Embleton.

True, not all but an overwhelming percentage is the DOF. Teague and Travers have to take responsibility for allowing the situation to drag on.

That is your opinion
It is not a Fact

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:45 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:40 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:22 am

He makes a good point
But it is not the ONLY POINT.

Ill keep banging my drum.
If JE was still alive he'd be in charge
Or he'd have been sacked.
It will take to the close season to deal with it fully.

Players in & out
Staff in & out
Owners in or out.

It is not as your hate filled self, continues to believe
All the Fault of Martin Ling or Ross Embleton.

True, not all but an overwhelming percentage is the DOF. Teague and Travers have to take responsibility for allowing the situation to drag on.

That is your opinion
It is not a Fact

Of course, one which many supporters are now agreeing with.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:46 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:45 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:40 am

True, not all but an overwhelming percentage is the DOF. Teague and Travers have to take responsibility for allowing the situation to drag on.

That is your opinion
It is not a Fact

Of course, one which many supporters are now agreeing with.

And many more who would disagree

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:48 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:46 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:45 am

That is your opinion
It is not a Fact

Of course, one which many supporters are now agreeing with.

And many more who would disagree

That is the beauty of opinions.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:52 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:48 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:46 am

Of course, one which many supporters are now agreeing with.

And many more who would disagree

That is the beauty of opinions.

Opinions are not objects of beauty .
Opinions are ramblings from people with
Little factual knowledge & big Egos

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:29 am Exactly this. It was always going to be a difficult year with the players and staff trying to come to terms with the loss of JE. I think it’s blindingly obvious that we can’t continue like this, but I’m not sure how BoneheadO thinks we should have approached the situation any differently given all these people were under contract at the time at least until the end of this season. Unless he thinks we could have torn them all up right away and started completely afresh of course.

BoneheadO eh, I've been called a lot worse. I totally agree it's been a difficult year. My point is that by now the club should have moved on. It's a business and Justin's loss can't be allowed to derail it. You ask how we could have approached the situation differently, fair enough. As I've already said, we need to stop looking back, take emotion and sentimentality out of decisions being made, and position ourselves for success, regardless of who delivers it. No more of the "he's Orient through and through" so he's the man for the job. We need a management team who can get the best out of the players we have and then buy/sell wisely to improve our performance. I don't care if that's the current guys or a completely new team but I do think it needs to be one or the other.

I dont want them to go, I want them to be better leaders, make hard decisions, give this club some direction because at the moment we are floating aimlessly and directionless (aside from down).

If they manage to get us relegated, meaning they've sat and done nothing from now until the end of the season, then I think I'd be questioning their long term future owning our club.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:14 am I dont want them to go, I want them to be better leaders, make hard decisions, give this club some direction because at the moment we are floating aimlessly and directionless (aside from down).

If they manage to get us relegated, meaning they've sat and done nothing from now until the end of the season, then I think I'd be questioning their long term future owning our club.

If you read Kent’s programme notes from last night he he and the other directors have taken a more hands on approach now.

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:45 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:03 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:52 am

That is the beauty of opinions.

Opinions are not objects of beauty .
Opinions are ramblings from people with
Little factual knowledge & big Egos

Who quoted that - it utter garbage

Facts are facts
Opinions are opinions & not facts

To believe an opiniin outwieghs a fact is stupidity.

Yeah, that's right. Being 'too clever by half' springs to mind.

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:41 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:18 pm

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:45 pm

Who quoted that - it utter garbage

Facts are facts
Opinions are opinions & not facts

To believe an opiniin outwieghs a fact is stupidity.

I think your comment sums up the irrelevance of this board and reinforces posting any comment on here is a total waste of time

Hallelujah, For I have seen the light.