Proper experienced Manager urgently needed.

[Cheshunto]

Bar 1-2 games as part of a 3 man CM Gorman hasn't done the job either. To think we went up a league having not invested heavily in our weakest area is ridiculous.

Clay, Wright, Gorman, Marsh... all basically the same player trying to play in the same way.

Surely Gorman and/or Kyprianou should get a chance at Newport, I do see how our midfield would be weaker.

[gshaw]

Bar 1-2 games as part of a 3 man CM Gorman hasn't done the job either. To think we went up a league having not invested heavily in our weakest area is ridiculous.

Clay, Wright, Gorman, Marsh... all basically the same player trying to play in the same way.

Surely Gorman and/or Kyprianou should get a chance at Newport, I do see how our midfield would be weaker.

Indeed, although I suspect with Judd back in contention (o presume today was a 1-match ban?) Embleton will go back to 4-3-3 with Marsh / Clay / Wright in CM. Who knows, Wilkinson may have recovered from his mystery injury too in place of, probably Brophy

[redintheface]

Not a great deal of time for Wilkinson to get back I would have thought given the short turn around time. I would imagine the best we could hope for is that he gets a place on the bench on Sunday.

[redintheface]

Bar 1-2 games as part of a 3 man CM Gorman hasn't done the job either. To think we went up a league having not invested heavily in our weakest area is ridiculous.

Clay, Wright, Gorman, Marsh... all basically the same player trying to play in the same way.

Surely Gorman and/or Kyprianou should get a chance at Newport, I do see how our midfield would be weaker.

The default position of almost all HC/ manager’s when a team is not playing well is that they opt for experience. I doubt Embleton will exclude Clay or Wright unless an injury / illness to one or the other forces him to do so.

[point nine one eight]

Today I don't think many managers could've done much better but overall Embleton isn't strong enough or experienced enough to address the issues in the squad. He's also under Ling's thumb, which is the root cause ultimately imo.

Will Embleton kick backsides to sort out the fitness issues, doubt it. Will he ruthlessly cull his friends from the squad, again doubt it.

Spot on gshaw

[Sid Bishop]

I like Ross E for his enthusiasm and effort and love for Lofc. He may be a "brilliant" coach - but I don't like ML position to date of up selling him for a position he did not want - with Ross then explaining in great detail why. Fast forward we then end up Ross named as betting fav for the vacancy a week or so ago.

I would prefer a proven manager at the lower league level being appointed with total honesty to permit that person to carry out his duties

''He may be a "brilliant" coach''
Evidence of that statement ?
Just because certain people say that does not make it true.
We are drifting along and seems like to me that as long as we can scrape by without being relegated, it is looking more and more like a decision on a new manager will be put off till this season has ended.

[point nine one eight]

I like Ross E for his enthusiasm and effort and love for Lofc. He may be a "brilliant" coach - but I don't like ML position to date of up selling him for a position he did not want - with Ross then explaining in great detail why. Fast forward we then end up Ross named as betting fav for the vacancy a week or so ago.

I would prefer a proven manager at the lower league level being appointed with total honesty to permit that person to carry out his duties

''He may be a "brilliant" coach''
Evidence of that statement ?
Just because certain people say that does not make it true.
We are drifting along and seems like to me that as long as we can scrape by without being relegated, it is looking more and more like a decision on a new manager will be put off till this season has ended.

Sadly I have to agree with you Sid, good post

[Thor]

I like Ross E for his enthusiasm and effort and love for Lofc. He may be a "brilliant" coach - but I don't like ML position to date of up selling him for a position he did not want - with Ross then explaining in great detail why. Fast forward we then end up Ross named as betting fav for the vacancy a week or so ago.

I would prefer a proven manager at the lower league level being appointed with total honesty to permit that person to carry out his duties

''He may be a "brilliant" coach''
Evidence of that statement ?
Just because certain people say that does not make it true.
We are drifting along and seems like to me that as long as we can scrape by without being relegated, it is looking more and more like a decision on a new manager will be put off till this season has ended.

Whilst you may have a point, I seriously believe that the board were / are waiting for a couple of positive wins before announcing RE, it has not happened and in my opinion won't happen.

Nice guy he may be, a good coach he may be, but he is no manager.

[Sid Bishop]

I like Ross E for his enthusiasm and effort and love for Lofc. He may be a "brilliant" coach - but I don't like ML position to date of up selling him for a position he did not want - with Ross then explaining in great detail why. Fast forward we then end up Ross named as betting fav for the vacancy a week or so ago.

I would prefer a proven manager at the lower league level being appointed with total honesty to permit that person to carry out his duties

''He may be a "brilliant" coach''
Evidence of that statement ?
Just because certain people say that does not make it true.
We are drifting along and seems like to me that as long as we can scrape by without being relegated, it is looking more and more like a decision on a new manager will be put off till this season has ended.

Whilst you may have a point, I seriously believe that the board were / are waiting for a couple of positive wins before announcing RE, it has not happened and in my opinion won't happen.

Nice guy he may be, a good coach he may be, but he is no manager.

''he ( Ross ) is no manager.''
I agree, but can the people in charge of this Club see it ?
Seems not !

[cockhat]

Too much reliance on Ling!
He’s been absolutely rubbish as DOF.
Get rid of him and being brutally honest Embleton et al. That’s the only way to move forward!

[Thor]

Agree with Sid and cockhat

[RedDwarf 1881]

Sooner or later it will become blindingly obvious even to the board that we'll need to hire an experienced manager . Some tough decisions need to be taken or this club will never move forwards .

[Disoriented]

Sooner or later it will become blindingly obvious even to the board that we'll need to hire an experienced manager . Some tough decisions need to be taken or this club will never move forwards .

We need someone to make those decisions first.

[cockhat]

Americans are usually ruthless, but Kent appears to be reluctant to act.

[Sid Bishop]

Americans are usually ruthless, but Kent appears to be reluctant to act.

Perhaps held back by Nigel who always strikes me as a great guy but also kind and perhaps rather sentimental, especially when it comes to the job that Martin Ling is doing.

[redintheface]

Americans are usually ruthless, but Kent appears to be reluctant to act.

Perhaps held back by Nigel who always strikes me as a great guy but also kind and perhaps rather sentimental, especially when it comes to the job that Martin Ling is doing.

Sid, the sentiment seems to extend further than Ling’s job. Not many other club’s would have shelled out on an extended contract for a 38 year old midfielder with a chronic groin injury nor have installed a Head Coach on an “ interim” basis and not made any attempt to look for a permanent candidate until AFTER the “ interim” boss told them he no longer wanted the job. Seems to be very much a case of heart ruling head imho.

[Thor]

If anyone had earned a contract it was Jobi, he put his body on the line so as to ensure we finished as champions. It’s a shame that it’s taken more than its fair share on his body and I’m sure all concerned never forsaw he’d still be injured now. Also remember Justin gave his blessing to his contract so if it was good enough for him, it’s good enough for me.

I didn’t agree with the interim role when it was announced and I said so on here however, after reflection it made perfect sense after what transpired. I also said that later on. Where we went wrong was with the appointment and the totally mad process that we went through. Not looking at managers with multiple clubs, not approaching possible targets to sound out if they were interested. Not doing enough ground work and appointing possibly the worst manager in our history. That I agree with you on.

The trouble we have is ling is still the king pin (3/4 poor manager appointments so far) and nothing to suggest he will get the next one right either. It would seem from his comments and the lack of activity we are not looking for a proper manager which to me once again says we are gonna mess this one up too.

[Max B Gold]

Americans are usually ruthless, but Kent appears to be reluctant to act.

Perhaps held back by Nigel who always strikes me as a great guy but also kind and perhaps rather sentimental, especially when it comes to the job that Martin Ling is doing.

Love of anything can confuse behaviour and comments

Nigel been a success in business in a role and industry that is far different from football that works on the franchise model. Having owned two franchises in USA in food not Nigel companies ones -I know for the franchise it sucks big time at times.

They work on the premise that you are the boss of your franchise shops but actually you are not - you carry all the risk all the investment and no positive accountability as the franchise model dictates everything but for negative accountability you are totally liable. There are legal cases in USA where the shop owners have suffered badly and are bringing class action to the companies. Any indication that the public are not happy the franchise is immediately distanced by the company and the public statement by the company is that the franchisee failed to follow the operation manual.

The point of the above is being a chairman of a football club is far different and in Nigel case his love of orient and his very likeable personality and loyalty does not mean his football decision making may be first class as a football chairman

He has a background in human resources and he from his statements is very receptive to a persons point of view - given all that I was very suprised about the Carl fletchers debacle occurring and the reliance on one person ML for reporting and his interview techniques - when we are top heavy with other directors and managerial staff - (which is out of proportion to a lower league club - all consuming resource of turnover)

The poor results do not enhance Lofc as a brand . The decision making of many events appears poor - team selection / tactics as reported / QA as an exercise an absolute disaster / conflicting comments of porter and lings / the signing of a relative to the DOF irrespective of the footballers ability was a mistake and creates a conflict of perceived interest even if there is not one / the issuing of contracts when there is no permanent manager in place can't be correct either / allowing Martin Ling to swear with laughter in a QA when we are promoting s family culture is not good.- but I guess Nigel did not know he would swear in a public debate

The above does not mean all parties are not trying their best and want success badly it's just as a group it does not work based on results and fan satifaction

They really need to review all directors roles and performance and realign their strategic planning - slim line it and consider all staff positions of decision making

The Board has been lacking a business advisor since Donut left a few weeks back. Well done you for filling the gap.

[BIGRON]

I posted months ago that i thought Ling senior was running the show and not making a good job of it , i got slagged off and abused then and am ready for the same treatment now .........Ling senior should go !!

[o-no]

Appointment of RE absolves ML of making another potentially disastrous appointment which could have bad consequences for the club and him personally, and absolves the owners of addressing the top-heavy structure of the club and recognising that ML isn't the fount of all knowledge they believe him to be IMO. It's a win-win.

I think if we can string together two victories, they'll announce it unfortunately.

[gshaw]

Appointment of RE absolves ML of making another potentially disastrous appointment which could have bad consequences for the club and him personally, and absolves the owners of addressing the top-heavy structure of the club and recognising that ML isn't the fount of all knowledge they believe him to be IMO. It's a win-win.

I think if we can string together two victories, they'll announce it unfortunately.

Never mind two, any win will be enough to trigger a 2.5 year contract I reckon.

[Fanny]

Problem is, bringing in a new manager now would be awful timing in relation to the January transfer window.

Even if we hired someone today, it would take a couple of weeks for them to figure out what/who we need and by then the window is halfway done.

The most sensible thing to do would be to give Ross the gig until the end of the season. But then the club has put itself in a difficult situation because if Ross keeps us up it seems really harsh to then bin him in the summer to get somebody else in.

All this dithering about and failure to actually appoint a football manager will have a long lasting negative impact on the club.

[EastDerehamO]

I’ve pulled a few quotes from a TalkSport interview with Ross at the end of September.

“I stepped into it because I felt it was my duty”
“I’ve never really perceived or looked upon myself as a manager”
“I love doing what I do. but the longer term view of being a manager isn’t something that burns inside me. Whereas coaching and helping somebody who does have that burning desire is something I’m really passionate about”
“It’s a club that I have been part of since I was a kid. There’s not many people in management that get to manage the football club they followed as a kid, so I’m incredibly proud to have done that. I never viewed myself as being Leyton Orient manager one day. But I’ve done that and I know deep down inside me that I’ve done everything to the best of my ability”
“It never quite worked out in terms of some of the results we got, but I found my achievements in other things, rather than just getting three points on a Saturday.”

I like Ross based on all I’ve read and the interviews I’ve seen, and I think he’s genuinely done what he thought he should this season. But having reached the conclusion three months ago that management wasn’t for him, it would on the face of it be astonishing if his mind has now changed, or if ML and the owners would feel it an acceptable risk to appoint him if that is how it maps out, especially post the CF debacle. ML more than anyone would know that one has to be totally committed to a manager’s role and believe that one can handle it.

[redintheface]

I’ve pulled a few quotes from a TalkSport interview with Ross at the end of September.

“I stepped into it because I felt it was my duty”
“I’ve never really perceived or looked upon myself as a manager”
“I love doing what I do. but the longer term view of being a manager isn’t something that burns inside me. Whereas coaching and helping somebody who does have that burning desire is something I’m really passionate about”
“It’s a club that I have been part of since I was a kid. There’s not many people in management that get to manage the football club they followed as a kid, so I’m incredibly proud to have done that. I never viewed myself as being Leyton Orient manager one day. But I’ve done that and I know deep down inside me that I’ve done everything to the best of my ability”
“It never quite worked out in terms of some of the results we got, but I found my achievements in other things, rather than just getting three points on a Saturday.”

I like Ross based on all I’ve read and the interviews I’ve seen, and I think he’s genuinely done what he thought he should this season. But having reached the conclusion three months ago that management wasn’t for him, it would on the face of it be astonishing if his mind has now changed, or if ML and the owners would feel it an acceptable risk to appoint him if that is how it maps out, especially post the CF debacle. ML more than anyone would know that one has to be totally committed to a manager’s role and believe that one can handle it.

It would be difficult to find many Orient fans who don’t like Ross or appreciate what he has done in difficult circumstances. None of that however makes him the right choice to be the club’s next permanent HC and drive the team forward in the longer term. If ML and the owners think differently then that’s their prerogative of course but my confidence in their wisdom has been very much dented by what has happened over the last couple of months.

[eagwgw]

Personally I think the intensity isn't there and that is symptomatic about the whole club at the moment, aside from Macklin and his revenue-making streams.

Drip-feed an old article on a player describing where he was when he heard the news when Justin passed and it is an easy smokescreen. Harrold last week, Brill this week, who next? We have to move on.

At another time if a club like ours were getting results and performances like we have this season, managers would be showing signs of being angry, upset, pressured in their interviews. Other managers (like Fletcher did) would be saying they would be needing several signings in the window to turn things around.

I don't think Ross is hurting enough or really feels the urgency to change too many things. And why? His job is safe, on paper he could lose every game and then still be in a job as the assistant, even if the new man thinks he is incompetent or an imposter.

The interim stuff and protecting Ross in his position has really hindered us this season, removing a source of motivation for Ross, providing the excuse for us to remain in managerial limbo, putting off prospective managers and heavily increasing the chances of culture clash when a new guy comes in (as everyone is on their best behaviour in interviews).

It seems crackers to keep this structure going, as perhaps only a very small percentage of the available managers out there would be able to make a success of it.

That said, real changes are not quick or easy to do. Considering the events of the last 6 months it would be rather heartless to be giving the bullet to people now, especially as we look like achieving our minimum objective of survival (although thanks to other clubs).

It clearly is not great at the moment but I fully back Nigel to sort it out. This season is gone, have to look at next season.