Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:57 pm If he wins through judging that enough people are thick enough to fall for this approach, will that not prove his point? Would the ends not justify the means to Tory MPs, party members, and their financial contributors? I'm not suggesting for one moment that we should give a stuff about their opinions, but equally they do not give a stuff about ours.

We may not like it, it is morally reprehensible, but this is a Tory leader engaged in a battle for power for the next five years. Why would people expect anything else?

Father Ted Crilly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:14 pm

greyhound wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:03 pm he is not so stupid to go on debates
and make a right p...k of himself like Corbyn the .

Boris is far from stupid - you should realise that he knows exactly what he's doing which is taking advantage of people like you. I seem to spend most of my time now just asking people to examine the evidence of their own eyes and ears. If you're content to vote for a man who holds the working class, the middle class, ethnic minorities and the LGBT community in complete contempt, then there's nothing I can do to help you.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:09 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:57 pm If he wins through judging that enough people are thick enough to fall for this approach, will that not prove his point? Would the ends not justify the means to Tory MPs, party members, and their financial contributors? I'm not suggesting for one moment that we should give a stuff about their opinions, but equally they do not give a stuff about ours.

We may not like it, it is morally reprehensible, but this is a Tory leader engaged in a battle for power for the next five years. Why would people expect anything else?

Describing it like that merely confirms he is not fit to lead.

In a democratic election the voters are entitled to understand what kind of leader they will be getting. By hiding sway from scrutiny the voters are being deliberately starved of information in order to hide the inevitability of Boris Liar Johnson.

This approach holds the electorate in utter contempt and is in essence undemocratic and unacceptable.

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:16 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:09 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:57 pm If he wins through judging that enough people are thick enough to fall for this approach, will that not prove his point? Would the ends not justify the means to Tory MPs, party members, and their financial contributors? I'm not suggesting for one moment that we should give a stuff about their opinions, but equally they do not give a stuff about ours.

We may not like it, it is morally reprehensible, but this is a Tory leader engaged in a battle for power for the next five years. Why would people expect anything else?

Describing it like that merely confirms he is not fit to lead.

In a democratic election the voters are entitled to understand what kind of leader they will be getting. By hiding sway from scrutiny the voters are being deliberately starved of information in order to hide the inevitability of Boris Liar Johnson.

This approach holds the electorate in utter contempt and is in essence undemocratic and unacceptable.

If the electorate don't like his campaigning they will show that at the ballot box on December 12th.


The reality is he has no need to go on TV because he and the Tories are able to get their message and information across in different ways.

Nothing contemptuous in choosing the best methods for you to get your message across. If the public don't like it, they won't vote for him

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:22 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:16 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:09 pm

Describing it like that merely confirms he is not fit to lead.

In a democratic election the voters are entitled to understand what kind of leader they will be getting. By hiding sway from scrutiny the voters are being deliberately starved of information in order to hide the inevitability of Boris Liar Johnson.

This approach holds the electorate in utter contempt and is in essence undemocratic and unacceptable.

If the electorate don't like his campaigning they will show that at the ballot box on December 12th.


The reality is he has no need to go on TV because he and the Tories are able to get their message and information across in different ways.

Nothing contemptuous in choosing the best methods for you to get your message across. If the public don't like it, they won't vote for him

Its a general election where the parties are seeking endorsement for their policies and people by the entire nation. Its not a marketing campaign to sell chocolate bars or soap powder.

Father Ted Crilly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:14 pm

greyhound wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:03 pm he is not so stupid to go on debates
and make a right p...k of himself like Corbyn the .

Boris is far from stupid - you should realise that he knows exactly what he's doing which is taking advantage of people like you. I seem to spend most of my time now just asking people to examine the evidence of their own eyes and ears. If you're content to vote for a man who holds the working class, the middle class, ethnic minorities and the LGBT community in complete contempt, then there's nothing I can do to help you.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:24 pm The onward march of consumerism, and the mentality needed for it to flourish, has infected our politics.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:09 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:57 pm If he wins through judging that enough people are thick enough to fall for this approach, will that not prove his point? Would the ends not justify the means to Tory MPs, party members, and their financial contributors? I'm not suggesting for one moment that we should give a stuff about their opinions, but equally they do not give a stuff about ours.

We may not like it, it is morally reprehensible, but this is a Tory leader engaged in a battle for power for the next five years. Why would people expect anything else?

Describing it like that merely confirms he is not fit to lead.

In a democratic election the voters are entitled to understand what kind of leader they will be getting. By hiding sway from scrutiny the voters are being deliberately starved of information in order to hide the inevitability of Boris Liar Johnson.

This approach holds the electorate in utter contempt and is in essence undemocratic and unacceptable.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:27 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:24 pm The onward march of consumerism, and the mentality needed for it to flourish, has infected our politics.

That is right but we deserve better and need to be more vocal in demanding it. Not cynical and defeatist.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:31 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:27 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:24 pm The onward march of consumerism, and the mentality needed for it to flourish, has infected our politics.

That is right but we deserve better and need to be more vocal in demanding it. Not cynical and defeatist.

But being cynical and defeatist is what armchair critics like myself do best!

Father Ted Crilly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:35 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:18 pm

Father Ted Crilly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:56 am

There was a time when I used to look at your posts and think that you were maybe trying to provoke some thought or debate.

However, like Maffy, I've now reached the conclusion that you're an idiot. If you can associate the words "sound judgement" with Boris Johnson then I can only treat you as a complete half-wit who is going to end up with the government you deserve.

Sadly it appears you want to sink to personal insults.



JC & BJ are involved in a competition where the aim is to win the election. They have adopted different strategies to getting their maessages out.

If not appearing in TV debates to avoid car crash moments and using other methods to get your message across is successful, then I would call that sound judgement.

I would not call it sound judgement to choose to go onto TV and have a car crash interview that harms your chances of being elected.



You appear to be collating what you want to happen with what is sound judgement.

Its quite clear you want BJ to appear on TV in debates / interviews. That is fine and you are entitled to hold that view.

However, the competition is not to do what you want but to win the election. Choosing a strategy that wins the election is adopting sound judgement. Choosing a strategy that loses you an election is not sound judgement.


Unless, I am wrong and the aim is not to win the election

PW's beaten me to it a bit here - I clearly understand what Johnson is doing which is avoiding scrutiny and making himself as small a target as possible.

Fine - he's free to do that. I sincerely hope that the electorate sees through this but sadly I suspect they won't because in the main they choose not to. Which is exactly what you're doing by equating his avoidance of any scrutiny with sound judgement.

And that makes you an idiot.

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:26 pm

Father Ted Crilly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:14 pm

greyhound wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:03 pm he is not so stupid to go on debates
and make a right p...k of himself like Corbyn the .

Boris is far from stupid - you should realise that he knows exactly what he's doing which is taking advantage of people like you. I seem to spend most of my time now just asking people to examine the evidence of their own eyes and ears. If you're content to vote for a man who holds the working class, the middle class, ethnic minorities and the LGBT community in complete contempt, then there's nothing I can do to help you.

Sounds just like the kind of PM we need, shut you abusive Corbin lovers up

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:34 pm

Father Ted Crilly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:35 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:18 pm



Sadly it appears you want to sink to personal insults.



JC & BJ are involved in a competition where the aim is to win the election. They have adopted different strategies to getting their maessages out.

If not appearing in TV debates to avoid car crash moments and using other methods to get your message across is successful, then I would call that sound judgement.

I would not call it sound judgement to choose to go onto TV and have a car crash interview that harms your chances of being elected.



You appear to be collating what you want to happen with what is sound judgement.

Its quite clear you want BJ to appear on TV in debates / interviews. That is fine and you are entitled to hold that view.

However, the competition is not to do what you want but to win the election. Choosing a strategy that wins the election is adopting sound judgement. Choosing a strategy that loses you an election is not sound judgement.


Unless, I am wrong and the aim is not to win the election

PW's beaten me to it a bit here - I clearly understand what Johnson is doing which is avoiding scrutiny and making himself as small a target as possible.

Fine - he's free to do that. I sincerely hope that the electorate sees through this but sadly I suspect they won't because in the main they choose not to. Which is exactly what you're doing by equating his avoidance of any scrutiny with sound judgement.

And that makes you an idiot.

He's clearly not stupid.

I doubt he even believes the stuff he writes on here. I suspect it's just the age old game of lefty-baiting.

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:39 pm What are you talking about? I can promise with 100% certainty that I, Redo, have never baited a lefty on this MB. I may have got things wrong or been misinformed but I have never deliberately tried to bait the lefties.

Father Ted Crilly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:34 pm

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:26 pm

Father Ted Crilly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:14 pm

Boris is far from stupid - you should realise that he knows exactly what he's doing which is taking advantage of people like you. I seem to spend most of my time now just asking people to examine the evidence of their own eyes and ears. If you're content to vote for a man who holds the working class, the middle class, ethnic minorities and the LGBT community in complete contempt, then there's nothing I can do to help you.

Sounds just like the kind of PM we need, shut you abusive Corbin lovers up

Just so we're not confused, you're in favour of a politician who holds the vast majority of the electorate which I've listed above in complete contempt?

BTW, being a labour voter and supporter doesn't automatically make you a Corbyn acolyte.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:42 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:39 pm What are you talking about? I can promise with 100% certainty that I, Redo, have never baited a lefty on this MB. I may have got things wrong or been misinformed but I have never deliberately tried to bait the lefties.

It's almost as if Jesus Spice never existed. But then I suppose he hasn't been on this MB.

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:43 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:42 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:39 pm What are you talking about? I can promise with 100% certainty that I, Redo, have never baited a lefty on this MB. I may have got things wrong or been misinformed but I have never deliberately tried to bait the lefties.

It's almost as if Jesus Spice never existed. But then I suppose he hasn't been on this MB.

I do not know what your are talking about. Just to clarify, I can promise with 100% certainty that I, Redo, have never baited a lefty on this MB. I may have got things wrong or been misinformed but I have never deliberately tried to bait the lefties.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:52 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:43 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:42 pm

It's almost as if Jesus Spice never existed. But then I suppose he hasn't been on this MB.

I do not know what your are talking about. Just to clarify, I can promise with 100% certainty that I, Redo, have never baited a lefty on this MB. I may have got things wrong or been misinformed but I have never deliberately tried to bait the lefties.

RedO has as many convictions for baiting lefties on this MB than you or I.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:42 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:39 pm What are you talking about? I can promise with 100% certainty that I, Redo, have never baited a lefty on this MB. I may have got things wrong or been misinformed but I have never deliberately tried to bait the lefties.

It's almost as if Jesus Spice never existed. But then I suppose he hasn't been on this MB.