Independent Leyton Orient Forum

redintheface wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:40 pm I guess we can keep hoping that there is at least one team worse than ourselves in this Division or recognise that the existing state of affairs isn’t working effectively and needs to be addressed.

Remember , when we recently played against the bottom side they outplayed us a won the game . I'm not sure there is going to be a worse team than us .

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:27 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:28 pm The coaches were poor under Davis
The coaches were good under Justin
The coaches were poor on their own
The coaches were poor under Fletch
The coaches are poor on their own

Ling has to go and the coaches have only proven good under a proper manager. You either have to find a proper man manager with good leadership skills and then direct the coaches to coach or you start again.

The players are good enough.

Ling we lost today cos you let Adam's go. You made a poor decision in employing Davis, you redeemed yourself by employing Justin and you've made another poor decision in employing Fletch. Your performance in the q and a was embarrassing.

Yet I still support you.

You now need to get your finger in gear and hire a manager or the club need to remove you from your position. You can take your son with you if that happens. Giving him a new contract was nepotism of the highest order especially when he didn't deserve it.

Neither Martin or Sam needs to leave . What we do need however is a proven experienced manager to come in . The club also has to accept some tough decisions need to be made or it's back to the National League for us . We can't keep losing all the bloody time and expect to survive in this league .

Yes they do, one of them at least

Player recruitment - DoF
Embleton placement - DoF
Manager recruitment - DoF

Too many failures leading to his door and the structure / "culture" clearly isn't working. Something has to give and if club isn't careful that will be its league status.

cockhat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:27 pm

Stowaway wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:05 pm

cockhat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:21 pm

Sorry, it’s the manager, coaching staff and DOF!
They need to be cleared out.
The players do have the ability

Well the last manager told the board that the players weren’t up to it and they didn’t want to hear it, so they sacked him by mutual consent, as if were.

You don’t SACK someone by mutual consent.
Get a proper experienced manager to organise them and they’ll come good!

I was being ironic.....

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:27 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:28 pm The coaches were poor under Davis
The coaches were good under Justin
The coaches were poor on their own
The coaches were poor under Fletch
The coaches are poor on their own

Ling has to go and the coaches have only proven good under a proper manager. You either have to find a proper man manager with good leadership skills and then direct the coaches to coach or you start again.

The players are good enough.

Ling we lost today cos you let Adam's go. You made a poor decision in employing Davis, you redeemed yourself by employing Justin and you've made another poor decision in employing Fletch. Your performance in the q and a was embarrassing.

Yet I still support you.

You now need to get your finger in gear and hire a manager or the club need to remove you from your position. You can take your son with you if that happens. Giving him a new contract was nepotism of the highest order especially when he didn't deserve it.

Neither Martin or Sam needs to leave . What we do need however is a proven experienced manager to come in . The club also has to accept some tough decisions need to be made or it's back to the National League for us . We can't keep losing all the bloody time and expect to survive in this league .

Ling does need to go, no self respecting experienced manager will come in to work under him!
By all accounts he was brought in to do a job ie steadying the ship. He did that and now the club need to move on without him.

cockhat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:13 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:27 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:28 pm The coaches were poor under Davis
The coaches were good under Justin
The coaches were poor on their own
The coaches were poor under Fletch
The coaches are poor on their own

Ling has to go and the coaches have only proven good under a proper manager. You either have to find a proper man manager with good leadership skills and then direct the coaches to coach or you start again.

The players are good enough.

Ling we lost today cos you let Adam's go. You made a poor decision in employing Davis, you redeemed yourself by employing Justin and you've made another poor decision in employing Fletch. Your performance in the q and a was embarrassing.

Yet I still support you.

You now need to get your finger in gear and hire a manager or the club need to remove you from your position. You can take your son with you if that happens. Giving him a new contract was nepotism of the highest order especially when he didn't deserve it.

Neither Martin or Sam needs to leave . What we do need however is a proven experienced manager to come in . The club also has to accept some tough decisions need to be made or it's back to the National League for us . We can't keep losing all the bloody time and expect to survive in this league .

Ling does need to go, no self respecting experienced manager will come in to work under him!
By all accounts he was brought in to do a job ie steadying the ship. He did that and now the club need to move on without him.

Unlikely to happen though as long as the owners appear fixated with keeping the structure within the club as it was when JE was in charge. Not sure if it’s sentiment or a case of “paralysis by analysis” but change of some sort is needed.

Maybe the answer is to give Martin Ling a different role within the club . If that was to happen then maybe we could go back to having a proper manager again.

redintheface wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:24 pm

cockhat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:13 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:27 pm

Neither Martin or Sam needs to leave . What we do need however is a proven experienced manager to come in . The club also has to accept some tough decisions need to be made or it's back to the National League for us . We can't keep losing all the bloody time and expect to survive in this league .

Ling does need to go, no self respecting experienced manager will come in to work under him!
By all accounts he was brought in to do a job ie steadying the ship. He did that and now the club need to move on without him.

Unlikely to happen though as long as the owners appear fixated with keeping the structure within the club as it was when JE was in charge. Not sure if it’s sentiment or a case of “paralysis by analysis” but change of some sort is needed.

The thing is Justin was his own man, he probably listened to Ling and disregarded him.
He was a good man manager and motivator, it was his ideas and he had total respect from the players.
It now appears to have gone back to Ling pulling the strings, and I’m sure Ross is influenced and directed by him.
I don’t believe for one minute that Ross is picking the team or formation himself. I would think he’s just a yes man.

cockhat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:47 pm

redintheface wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:24 pm

cockhat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:13 pm
Ling does need to go, no self respecting experienced manager will come in to work under him!
By all accounts he was brought in to do a job ie steadying the ship. He did that and now the club need to move on without him.

Unlikely to happen though as long as the owners appear fixated with keeping the structure within the club as it was when JE was in charge. Not sure if it’s sentiment or a case of “paralysis by analysis” but change of some sort is needed.

The thing is Justin was his own man, he probably listened to Ling and disregarded him.
He was a good man manager and motivator, it was his ideas and he had total respect from the players.
It now appears to have gone back to Ling pulling the strings, and I’m sure Ross is influenced and directed by him.
I don’t believe for one minute that Ross is picking the team or formation himself. I would think he’s just a yes man.

I think we have a winning post right here.

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:10 pm Travis, Teague and Ling admit making mistakes, they clearly have not learnt anything.
Embleton is way out of his depth, advertise immediately if you haven't done already for a proven experienced Manager at this level.
This is not the way to keep fans onside and certainly won't attract new fans, the attendances will tumble and so will the goodwill .
No more cheap, useless solutions it is an insult to Justin's memory and all the loyal fan base.

Who do you have in mind who is available, likely to be interested, and able to immediately galavanise the club as you have demanded?

Two or three names to get the ball rolling.

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:25 am

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:10 pm Travis, Teague and Ling admit making mistakes, they clearly have not learnt anything.
Embleton is way out of his depth, advertise immediately if you haven't done already for a proven experienced Manager at this level.
This is not the way to keep fans onside and certainly won't attract new fans, the attendances will tumble and so will the goodwill .
No more cheap, useless solutions it is an insult to Justin's memory and all the loyal fan base.

Who do you have in mind who is available, likely to be interested, and able to immediately galavanise the club as you have demanded?

Two or three names to get the ball rolling.

I am not an expert, this is where we need someone with real expertise to advise the owners and that does not include Ling Snr.

I have not seen any comments on this thread to show an understanding of Lings role. Most of his work is outside first team affairs.

Currently, we are in a more difficult position than when Ling came in. Stability is necessary to be able grow. This is what the board are trying to do. Not to make wholesale changes, which may or may not work.

The players are as a group capable of doing well in this division, but there is a learning curve. This obviously was not helped by JE passing. The club felt that looking inwards initially was the best way forward and feel that the structure is sound (last season proved the point).

I think that many of us are aware of the weaknesses in the team, but to rip the structure and ethos out of the club is just plain bonkers.

Many of you will have worked in large teams. If you have had all the management team removed, it leads to uncertainty, major changes to structure and the probable same mistakes made. Use the structure, keep the individuals , unless they are not up to the job(which currently does not apply) and bring in another well motivated and personable manager, if RE steps back.

You learn from your mistakes and time is needed for the players to get back to good mentality.

Our next league match will judge better than the last 2, for direction of travel, under Ross.

I remain eternally grateful to the owners for what they have done for the club, but of course it doesn’t mean that I have to agree with them on everything.

I never really understood the need for a DoF role here, but from the state the club was in to promotion in two seasons clearly the set-up has got something right.

I didn’t think that Davis was a bad call as manager at the time – some success with youngsters at Crewe - but it didn’t work out. JE ticked the experience and success boxes and delivered, and is forever an O’s legend. But I didn’t understand the Fletcher appointment at all, as he ticked neither box, and he’s gone within a month.

It’s not rocket science, as many of us fans have been saying since before Ross quit the first time, get in an experienced manager with a proven track record of some success at the level we’re at. Simples!

EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:56 pm I remain eternally grateful to the owners for what they have done for the club, but of course it doesn’t mean that I have to agree with them on everything.

I never really understood the need for a DoF role here, but from the state the club was in to promotion in two seasons clearly the set-up has got something right.

I didn’t think that Davis was a bad call as manager at the time – some success with youngsters at Crewe - but it didn’t work out. JE ticked the experience and success boxes and delivered, and is forever an O’s legend. But I didn’t understand the Fletcher appointment at all, as he ticked neither box, and he’s gone within a month.

It’s not rocket science, as many of us fans have been saying since before Ross quit the first time, get in an experienced manager with a proven track record of some success at the level we’re at. Simples!

Clearly too simple for some !!

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:25 am

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:10 pm Travis, Teague and Ling admit making mistakes, they clearly have not learnt anything.
Embleton is way out of his depth, advertise immediately if you haven't done already for a proven experienced Manager at this level.
This is not the way to keep fans onside and certainly won't attract new fans, the attendances will tumble and so will the goodwill .
No more cheap, useless solutions it is an insult to Justin's memory and all the loyal fan base.

Who do you have in mind who is available, likely to be interested, and able to immediately galavanise the club as you have demanded?

Two or three names to get the ball rolling.

Russell Slade is getable . Although even with somebody like Russell the club has to accept change is badly needed in January . Things can't be allowed to carry on the way that they are at the moment .

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:07 pm

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:25 am

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:10 pm Travis, Teague and Ling admit making mistakes, they clearly have not learnt anything.
Embleton is way out of his depth, advertise immediately if you haven't done already for a proven experienced Manager at this level.
This is not the way to keep fans onside and certainly won't attract new fans, the attendances will tumble and so will the goodwill .
No more cheap, useless solutions it is an insult to Justin's memory and all the loyal fan base.

Who do you have in mind who is available, likely to be interested, and able to immediately galavanise the club as you have demanded?

Two or three names to get the ball rolling.

Russell Slade is getable . Although even with somebody like Russell the club has to accept change is badly needed in January . Things can't be allowed to carry on the way that they are at the moment .

Don't see Russell Slade coming back here under the present set up, under Hearn he virtually had a free role on everything football wise. He without doubt galvanised the club, before, could he do it again I am not sure. Not many go back and are as successful as they were before or even better, the only one that springs to mind in recent times is Eddie Howe at Bournemouth. The other thing is would he want to come down South again, I suppose you could say he has unfinished business after the Wembley defeat in 2014. In all honesty and just a personal opinion, not for me, but I do however see where you are coming from.

I understand your point about the present set up at Orient . That's why I'm thinking maybe Martin Ling could be given a different role at the club in order to bring in a proper manager .

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:38 pm Maybe the answer is to give Martin Ling a different role within the club . If that was to happen then maybe we could go back to having a proper manager again.

What would you suggest?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:35 pm I understand your point about the present set up at Orient . That's why I'm thinking maybe Martin Ling could be given a different role at the club in order to bring in a proper manager .

Totally agree with that and I think a lot of other supporters would, as well.

Osal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:50 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:35 pm I understand your point about the present set up at Orient . That's why I'm thinking maybe Martin Ling could be given a different role at the club in order to bring in a proper manager .

Totally agree with that and I think a lot of other supporters would, as well.

Yes, any role which does not directly impact on the team or football in general.

Yes I agree with that, I said in a post on another thread, I don't necessarily want him sacked, just a redefinement of his role within the club.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:48 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:38 pm Maybe the answer is to give Martin Ling a different role within the club . If that was to happen then maybe we could go back to having a proper manager again.

What would you suggest?

I don't know because I don't own the club . Only Nigel and Kent would know the full workings of the club.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:07 pm

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:25 am

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:10 pm Travis, Teague and Ling admit making mistakes, they clearly have not learnt anything.
Embleton is way out of his depth, advertise immediately if you haven't done already for a proven experienced Manager at this level.
This is not the way to keep fans onside and certainly won't attract new fans, the attendances will tumble and so will the goodwill .
No more cheap, useless solutions it is an insult to Justin's memory and all the loyal fan base.

Who do you have in mind who is available, likely to be interested, and able to immediately galavanise the club as you have demanded?

Two or three names to get the ball rolling.

Russell Slade is getable . Although even with somebody like Russell the club has to accept change is badly needed in January . Things can't be allowed to carry on the way that they are at the moment .

Not Slade for me. Back in 13/14 we had an exceptional squad and RS got the best out of them. This current squad are an awful lot poorer and I can’t see anyone getting much out of them, esp not RS who has essentially done nothing much since he left us. A good man, and one who’ll always be fondly remembered at Brissy, but let’s remember him as he was.

Stowaway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:05 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:07 pm

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:25 am

Who do you have in mind who is available, likely to be interested, and able to immediately galavanise the club as you have demanded?

Two or three names to get the ball rolling.

Russell Slade is getable . Although even with somebody like Russell the club has to accept change is badly needed in January . Things can't be allowed to carry on the way that they are at the moment .

Not Slade for me. Back in 13/14 we had an exceptional squad and RS got the best out of them. This current squad are an awful lot poorer and I can’t see anyone getting much out of them, esp not RS who has essentially done nothing much since he left us. A good man, and one who’ll always be fondly remembered at Brissy, but let’s remember him as he was.

"The nearly man"

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:40 pm

Stowaway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:05 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:07 pm

Russell Slade is getable . Although even with somebody like Russell the club has to accept change is badly needed in January . Things can't be allowed to carry on the way that they are at the moment .

Not Slade for me. Back in 13/14 we had an exceptional squad and RS got the best out of them. This current squad are an awful lot poorer and I can’t see anyone getting much out of them, esp not RS who has essentially done nothing much since he left us. A good man, and one who’ll always be fondly remembered at Brissy, but let’s remember him as he was.

"The nearly man"

" The nearly man" . The problem with that quote is we're not going for promotion but survival. Who else could we get from outside at the moment to come in a steady the ship . ?

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:40 pm

Stowaway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:05 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:07 pm

Russell Slade is getable . Although even with somebody like Russell the club has to accept change is badly needed in January . Things can't be allowed to carry on the way that they are at the moment .

Not Slade for me. Back in 13/14 we had an exceptional squad and RS got the best out of them. This current squad are an awful lot poorer and I can’t see anyone getting much out of them, esp not RS who has essentially done nothing much since he left us. A good man, and one who’ll always be fondly remembered at Brissy, but let’s remember him as he was.

"The nearly man"

Russell Slade did a great job here on a very limited budget. He did okay at Cardiff but still got moved to another role, since then he has been a failure. He is not setting the world alight at Hereford either.