Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Apparently they haven't filled his old job yet.
They have gotten money from us presumably for him, and now can get him back for free.
People like Eddie Howe and others at Bournemouth were glowing in their praise for him according to Ling (although they would hardly say that he is rubbish).
It'd be a pretty sad statement if they didn't take him back.

Can’t see how or why they wouldn’t take him back.......

sopranO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:57 pm Unless there's someone on here who is an actual member of the coaching staff,none of us will have any idea what Nigel Travis means when he refers to our 'unique culture'.
My concern is that if the people who are responsible for Carl Fletcher's appointment didn't see that he wasn't the right fit for this culture,how can we be confident that they won't make the same mistake again?

Assuming there is no real barrier on experience, and simply that he has good references (every manager will have people who will rave about him, and also some people that don't, we just call the ones that tell us what we want to hear), the bottleneck seems simple.

Keep all the boxes the same, but add another one 'Are they friends with Ross and Danny'. Had Fletcher been chums, he'd still be here, even if results were the same.

Travis has been smooth and taken the heat out of the situation, not a surprise for a man that has risen to the top of his profession. I think underneath the owners will be a bit annoyed that Fletcher has ended up costing us six figures for a couple weeks work.

Doubt they want him back as he was surely demoted from u23 manager to loans bloke.

This is hilarious. It's Leyton Orient. What is all this nonsense about it being a unique close community club ffs. He's talking orient up like they're Man United or Barca.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:04 pm This is hilarious. It's Leyton Orient. What is all this nonsense about it being a unique close community club ffs. He's talking orient up like they're Man United or Barca.

You mean talking us down obviously to match those 2 !!

Travis is a businessman, his success has been built on communication, collaboration and transparency, and that is the culture he's instilled in the club. That is why we appoint a head coach and not a manager. He realised by not including existing coaching staff and players he won't get the right fit.

Good post adz.

Nobody can pinpoint what our 'culture' is.

Every club has it's own culture and regardless of what you think of our culture, you're part of it.

It's why you choose to post on this message board and comment on Orient rather than go on a Millwall message board and comment on them.

You are what makes us unique.

If you identified with another club you wouldn't be here. That's what our culture is.

Adz wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:19 pm Travis is a businessman, his success has been built on communication, collaboration and transparency, and that is the culture he's instilled in the club. That is why we appoint a head coach and not a manager. He realised by not including existing coaching staff and players he won't get the right fit.

This is true. He's instilled an honesty about our club and created an organisation that is transparent and built on questioning rather than dictorial.

For whatever reason Fletcher didn't fit. It was blindingly obvious and we've corrected it.

The interview process might need a tweak though.

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Adz wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:19 pm Travis is a businessman, his success has been built on communication, collaboration and transparency, and that is the culture he's instilled in the club. That is why we appoint a head coach and not a manager. He realised by not including existing coaching staff and players he won't get the right fit.

This is true. He's instilled an honesty about our club and created an organisation that is transparent and built on questioning rather than dictorial.

For whatever reason Fletcher didn't fit. It was blindingly obvious and we've corrected it.

The interview process might need a tweak though.

The trouble is tent people on here were calling him out straight away after his first interview and we all said nah calm down relax etc. They were right, how is it that those same people on here got it so right after one interview and the club couldn’t see it after possibly several and against the different layers of the organisational structure we have?

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:16 pm From what has been said by various club people, it sounds like Fletcher couldn't or didn't want to get in the thick of the group. Justin was genius at this, and Ross wouldn't have found this a problem as he was internal. It was always going to be difficult for the first outsider, but by the sounds of it he just didn't fit in.

That might not be his failing, maybe the players, and the club more generally need to look at how newcomers are integrated, and maybe even look at changing the culture so that this is possible.

This is why I'd like Russell Slade back . I honestly think he has the personality that would connect with everybody . Forget about he's never won promotion but think about what he could bring to the table right now ...stability . We''re crying out for somebody like him . Of course there's no guarantees in football but he ticks all those boxes .

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:13 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:16 pm From what has been said by various club people, it sounds like Fletcher couldn't or didn't want to get in the thick of the group. Justin was genius at this, and Ross wouldn't have found this a problem as he was internal. It was always going to be difficult for the first outsider, but by the sounds of it he just didn't fit in.

That might not be his failing, maybe the players, and the club more generally need to look at how newcomers are integrated, and maybe even look at changing the culture so that this is possible.

This is why I'd like Russell Slade back . I honestly think he has the personality that would connect with everybody . Forget about he's never won promotion but think about what he could bring to the table right now ...stability . We''re crying out for somebody like him . Of course there's no guarantees in football but he ticks all those boxes .

For all of Slade's faults. He is a personality, has charisma, is an educated man and knows about motivation and psychology. He would get the extra 10% out of the players given the chance to build a squad.

Tactically is he a bit of a dinosaur? Possibly. But that's where we have our coaches come in. And we do have good coaches.

He is a steady pair of hands and we could really do a lot worse then bringing him in.

Who knows? Given the budget and bringing Stephen Dawson with him from Hereford (joke) he might surprise us all.

Though I think Tisdale would be equally as good.

I also think that he f*cking loves this club.

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:53 pm Nobody can pinpoint what our 'culture' is.

Every club has it's own culture and regardless of what you think of our culture, you're part of it.

It's why you choose to post on this message board and comment on Orient rather than go on a Millwall message board and comment on them.

You are what makes us unique.

If you identified with another club you wouldn't be here. That's what our culture is.

Talking of cultures and what fits. I just read on Facebook that people fancy Neil Harris. That doesn't fit.

Steve Evan's, Westley, Martin Allen. They don't fit. We ain't that type of club.

I think Tent has just inadvertently nailed it. We ain’t the type of club for a manager like Martin Allen or Joey Barton, even Lee Boyer or Roy Keane (if we had pots of money). Dare I say it, we wouldn’t be the type of club for a manager like Alex Ferguson. Depends which way you look at it. Me, I would happily throw every principle I have out the window if it meant winning games and getting back to be a championship club as we were in the 70’s. I am getting older and at this rate, it ain’t ever going to happen in my lifetime. Others- perhaps too many, love the family club thing, a place to meet friends, and generally spend a few hours smiling (mostly at how bad we are). Thing is. Whatever way we think, it is the job of the management to be in camp one and not camp two. Football is a results business. Over the years our management have covered up not being winners by constantly referring to the ethos of the club (surely every club has principles and inclusivity). Worryingly, that is just getting worse and not better. It’s constant now. Even Hearn seemed happy to use it for our failings. Our postcode and the explosion of London as a global city in 25 years and we have gone sideways/backwards. That isn’t right. I sometimes think it would have been interesting to see if Eddie had taken over from Barry. He would have given the place a shake.

You certainly can define and pinpoint culture in an organisation once established. Culture is very much evident, once set usually top down, it can effect the lives of many employees. And the quality of the work life home life balance.

Having a positive, almost family/community based culture is absolutely no barrier to success. In fact it can breed success as Justin proved. Having a ruthless hard nosed culture can breed failure as Bechetti proved.

Having a positive culture doesn’t prevent the making of tough decisions, like sacking Fletcher, but it does affect how those decisions are enacted, an example is NT words about Carl after he went. Assuming the blame himself whilst trying to restore a bit of Carl’s reputation.

Travis and Teague can take a lot of credit not only for financially saving Orient but creating the culture that exists. Something very much worth protecting. Something Justin added to and Ross builds on now.

Sure. That’s right. But a positive culture exists in more businesses than not. I have no doubt that every single league club would say they have a positive culture, they are inclusive, family focused etc. We get that. The first thing Ling did in the interview was talk about the ethos of the club. The first thing I want him to say is results were not good enough and then look into the camera and say this club WILL become a success. I know you can’t make it happen just by wishing it but for me, stop waffling on about cultures and ethos’s. It’s a smokescreen for hiding the fact that in my time supporting the club we have done nothing bar go backwards.

Now that Travis has got rid of the driftwood he’s hoping that the fans will sing and start walking in the sun instead of moaning why does it always rain on me. We hope that he does not become a re-offender and by planting some flowers in the window which I can see with my eyes we in turn will show that the love will come through. Let’s face it at the end of the game today all I want to do is rock.

You can get Rock in Coronation Gardens tenner a bag I believe watch you don’t get merked though

Interesting to see how some others ( presumably AFC Bournemouth fans) view the culture at the O’s in the Comments attached to this article on NT’s interview.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport ... -fletcher/

Beradogs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:08 am I think Tent has just inadvertently nailed it. We ain’t the type of club for a manager like Martin Allen or Joey Barton, even Lee Boyer or Roy Keane (if we had pots of money). Dare I say it, we wouldn’t be the type of club for a manager like Alex Ferguson. Depends which way you look at it. Me, I would happily throw every principle I have out the window if it meant winning games and getting back to be a championship club as we were in the 70’s. I am getting older and at this rate, it ain’t ever going to happen in my lifetime. Others- perhaps too many, love the family club thing, a place to meet friends, and generally spend a few hours smiling (mostly at how bad we are). Thing is. Whatever way we think, it is the job of the management to be in camp one and not camp two. Football is a results business. Over the years our management have covered up not being winners by constantly referring to the ethos of the club (surely every club has principles and inclusivity). Worryingly, that is just getting worse and not better. It’s constant now. Even Hearn seemed happy to use it for our failings. Our postcode and the explosion of London as a global city in 25 years and we have gone sideways/backwards. That isn’t right. I sometimes think it would have been interesting to see if Eddie had taken over from Barry. He would have given the place a shake.

In footballing terms who created this? You could look back as far as Frank Clark and the manner in which he tried to play but Russell Slade invented fan engagement. Martin Ling had a level of fan respect, mainly for his achievements, but Russ played a large part in giving us our modern identity. If you try and tie thin strands together then Kent Teague also embodies that off of the pitch and others like Nigel and Matt buy into it in less outwardly enthusiastic ways - but its there. I have as much clue as the next person on here about the next coach, but getting it right is very important because if we have two failed attempts at keeping this culture going then the person coming in afterwards is probably going to have to rip it up and start again.

The culture stuff is largely bollox I feel, we had a culture before, we had one after.

Fletcher could have afforded to fall out with a few players, many managers do that, they get rid of them to Boco Island and they are gone.
The fans stuff is not relevant, nobody would have cared about his interviews had we won some games.

But he could not afford to fall out with the coaching team, who are immovable fixtures, that is why is he gone. He had a position of authority here, with no real authority. Assuming he was not a willy and brash (why employ him if he was), it may be fair comment to say he was stabbed in the back a bit and the staff closed ranks. Is that great culture? We'll never know as he has been paid to shut up, like Mooney and Boco were.

I believe that Travis is incredibly smart and many of his words are for public show.

The 'culture' here worked under Justin, who possessed the correct combination of attributes, the exact combo might not be available in other managers, so why try and persevere with it? Things change over time and it will not be possible to recreate last season because the head man is gone. But that is not to say another man could come along and create something a little different. Fact is if we want a promotion side, the playing side needs wholesale change, many are simply not good enough.

That in itself necessitates a change in the way we do think. Last year we were the giants and teams were out to get us, getting back into League One means outperforming sides as big as us and some with bigger budgets.

To use a metaphor, if you have a plant and it fails to blossom, would it not be better to change the conditions the plant is raised in rather then just get another plant and start again doing the same things.

If I run a PLC selling Lawnmowers and sit in front of my shareholders I am not going to start talking about the ethos of the company or I might. But only for a minute or two. If I waffle on about Maude the tea lady getting a pay rise because her jammy dodgers are so good and she had been with the company 30 years and that’s what makes us special etc the shareholders will say cool story. How many mowers you sold and what’s our dividend. Kent is a businessman, he knows this. So why was Fletcher sacked after 5 games. If it was results. Say results although 5 games is ridiculous to judge. If it was (as suggested by Ling) that he didn’t fit in with the ethos of the club. What on earth does that even mean? What did he do, make joke fart noises when the players sat down for breakfast? What? Not saying fletcher was good. He came across terribly but he was interviewed so it wouldn’t be his personality they didn’t like. 5 games is not enough so what is it? Perhaps he was already asking for more autonomy and Ling felt threatened.

Spot on eagwgw. We posted at the same time. You said it better than me. A lot better. Please delete Maude.