Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:30 am

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:44 pm If I was a gambling man, which I’m not, I don’t reckon it was the players that refused to give him a chance.

I can see the exact same thing happening again if we don’t get someone who’s experienced enough to take on and win over the coaching team.

I agree with you.

It’s interesting that on the Orient hour they said that he distanced himself from the coaching team and players, did not say anything to the team at half time on Sun and probably nothing after the game as the players were up in the legends lounge within 15 mins. If he has been conducting himself in an aloof manner then there is your answer, no rapport with the players or coaches and if that happens it’s hard to buy in to what he wanted to do. It was said that he did not let the coaches coach either. Pretty damming there too, especially if the players rate the coaches and all of a sudden they’ve been sidelined, loyalty is earned as is respect and I suspect he got neither due to his demeanour if what is said was true of course.

All good points from you and RedO. The Sunday comment if true, and the Panel felt strongly it was, that is poor and won’t go unnoticed.

Acknowledges that the recruitment process is being reviewed (as all processes should be periodically) and that they will learn from this. We expected nothing less. Hope we don't go totally the other way with the next permanent head coach

Not really sure it was the process..... Ling has had his entire life in the game, he must surely know what a good manager is and what type of person the squad needs.

The trouble is, preferences from elsewhere tainted the search. The need to work with a DoF and the need to work with the current backroom pretty much killed off the good candidates. Both of these factors are under his control.

These things alone are not correlated with any skill in the same way that past track record is, but I bet they were two boxes on the checklist.

I feel a bit for Fletcher, he was probably doomed from very early on and could not do anything about it. It was the structure of the club that failed him just as much as him failing us.

Ultimate goal is promotion, and many managers could deliver that. Under the current set-up I feel this range of managers is much narrower because of the additional boxes, and therefore we are making it harder for ourselves without reaping many benefits on the other side. Does Ling give us a massive advantage in negotiating contracts? Seems unlikely.

Personally the best way forward for me is to go to end of season with what we have, promote Macklin to 'proper' CEO who did the job Matt Porter did, get in a business exec to whip up sales to replace Macklin, and get a proper manager in who will be given the budget and left to get on with it with his own team. Ross and Webb could be reassigned to the academy, otherwise they have to go.

We should do our best to find Ling another role within the club, but to me he has fulfilled his initial mission of getting the club back from being a mess to a stable one and a demotion might not be acceptable for him, in which case it is time for him to move on.

You don't know who the other candidates were and the structure did not hinder JE. Give the anti ling stuff a rest.

Porter has now come out and accepted his part in the debacle. Here is what he’s said.

Martin explains an unfortunate situation very well here and as a board member I take my share of responsibility.

We'll re-group and move forward together with the same mentality that has worked so well for us.

Thanks for your support and patience - on to Saturday and up the O's

Porter communicates further and answers people’s questions.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:10 am You don't know who the other candidates were and the structure did not hinder JE. Give the anti ling stuff a rest.

People conveniently forget the process and structure won us a championship, certainly quicker than I thought likely. Just need to get the right man for the job.

No nut the process changed, what part of that don’t you get?

TBH the massive financial advantage we had over most other teams and getting in a manager who had a track record in that division were more meaningful factors in getting us promotion more than whether we had a DoF or not.

Ain't gonna be replicating the first condition in League Two, we could get the second but we have made it harder for ourselves. Nobody knows who else applied, but everyone does know that other people were interested and then cut out because of not fitting here.

Sol Campbell was one of them...

It's hard to believe that if you are a Head Coach of a team that is 1-0 down in the FA Cup at home to a side that is four divisions below you, you don't say anything to the team at half time. If true, that's an absolute disgrace.

To me, Fletcher just seemed like a square peg in a round hole from the start. The guy must have come across well in the interview process but for it to go so wrong so quickly does show that there was a problem with the process. He knew that he was going to have to work with the existing coaching staff but just seemed unable, for whatever reason, to get them onside with whatever it was he was trying to do.

So now we have gone back to Ross who we know doesn't really want the job. But having said that, he seemed an entirely different person once he quit the role before. Perhaps he was just trying too hard at the start. Once he had resigned he was able to relax and actually enjoy it. So, if he is able to re-create that feeling he could yet do a pretty good job for us for the rest of the season or however long he's got.

"We covered every base with Carl Fletcher", how the hell is that possible when the bloke had not managed a club of any kind for six years.

Don't think the process itself changed, It was a criteria change basically eliminating managers with decent experience, when what we really needed was a manager who had a decent amount of experience.

Top of the West. wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:38 am Don't think the process itself changed, It was a criteria change basically eliminating managers with decent experience, when what we really needed was a manager who had a decent amount of experience.

Understood and agree with you, so, if you and I see that as common sense, why can't the idiots in charge?

It's a bit worrying if the players and coaching staff really didn't want to play for him. These are supposed to be professional footballers who are paid to play, whoever the manager might be. Many of us probably don't particularly like our bosses but we don't down tools and insist that he's removed. Are they going to like anyone else coming in from outside? We can't stick with Ross Embleton just to keep the players onside.

What a tedious interview that was

I said from day one that I found the appointment baffling, in as much that not only was he out of touch with lower league football but he had been shafted from under 23 coach to loan manager. I mean Bournemouth are a premiership team so don’t take players on loan and only loan out. I doubt they loan out more than a handful of young players so how on earth can this justify a full time job. To appoint someone from that dubious role to managing our club was ludicrous.

It isn't a desk based form filling job.

Rather than having overall responsibility for the entire group of U21s/U23s or whatever age he was looking after, he was tasked with developing their most promising young players and getting them ready for the first team squad. It's not just a case of phoning up a L1 or L2 club and sending them out there, it's analysing their needs and meeting them.

Is that more responsibility than the U23 coach? Very possibly.

Is it of any relevance for heading up a L2 club of our size? Most certainly not.

I find it hard to believe that Fletcher interviewed better than Sol Campbell. I can believe that the latter was not appointed because the Board did not wish to alienate those Os fans who are quasi-Spurs fans.

insincere, uncomfortable and his body language shows he's not quite telling the truth, something we'll never know.
Full of boring clichés and the 'pair of shoes'? WTF.....
UNACCEPTABLE

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:34 am No nut the process changed, what part of that don’t you get?

Correct . Under the new criteria JE, arguably the best manager in the clubs history wouldn't have got the job. He had managed a few clubs before he joined us .

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:57 am I said from day one that I found the appointment baffling, in as much that not only was he out of touch with lower league football but he had been shafted from under 23 coach to loan manager. I mean Bournemouth are a premiership team so don’t take players on loan and only loan out. I doubt they loan out more than a handful of young players so how on earth can this justify a full time job. To appoint someone from that dubious role to managing our club was ludicrous.

I think we all found the appointment baffling from day one .

The criteria wasn't to eliminate those with experience, but go for a certain type of manager. This was prioritised over experience, hence we got Fletcher. There might have in theory been somebody who fulfilled this criteria *and* had experience, but clearly in this case there was not, or they believed that this type overrode experience.

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:30 am

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:44 pm If I was a gambling man, which I’m not, I don’t reckon it was the players that refused to give him a chance.

I can see the exact same thing happening again if we don’t get someone who’s experienced enough to take on and win over the coaching team.

I agree with you.

It’s interesting that on the Orient hour they said that he distanced himself from the coaching team and players, did not say anything to the team at half time on Sun and probably nothing after the game as the players were up in the legends lounge within 15 mins. If he has been conducting himself in an aloof manner then there is your answer, no rapport with the players or coaches and if that happens it’s hard to buy in to what he wanted to do. It was said that he did not let the coaches coach either. Pretty damming there too, especially if the players rate the coaches and all of a sudden they’ve been sidelined, loyalty is earned as is respect and I suspect he got neither due to his demeanour if what is said was true of course.

Sounds a lot like stories of Tony Adams at Portsmouth. Making the team wait an hour after a match before walking into the dressing room saying "silly mistakes mean silly goals" and walking out of the room.

The guy doesn't look all that well.