Independent Leyton Orient Forum

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:24 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:16 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:56 pm

He knows better than most our recent history and so why we're like this . We simply can NOT afford to get relegated again back down to the National League . With Fletcher in charge that could well happen .We've just been outplayed by the worse team the league and knocked out the FA Cup by a team four divisions below us . Something is terribly wrong . Ross had bad patches but he had the same players digging in and getting results . All that fight , passion and desire Ross built in his last few games has now gone . Look at our fighting spirit against Port Vale , where has that disappeared too.

Why can we not afford it ?

Where do we begin...

- loss of TV money
How many times were we live ladt season ?
Dont think we lost to much

- loss of income from away fan gates at NL vs L2
Really notts county stockport wrexham & a few others to

- reduction in ST income
2 record season ticket sales in National league for us wasnt it .

- loss of funding for the beloved academy (leading to eventual closure)
Takes 2 years for that to happen
Savings of needing to produce young players with no gaurentee of making money back on 2 let alone all

- inability to balance the books with Hearn's ever-increasing rent charges.
Hearn reduced the rent for non league ( at very least froze it while we were there.


If we go down it'll be a blow I don't think the club will recover from

What happened in 2016/17 then in 2018/9 ?

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:24 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:16 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:56 pm

He knows better than most our recent history and so why we're like this . We simply can NOT afford to get relegated again back down to the National League . With Fletcher in charge that could well happen .We've just been outplayed by the worse team the league and knocked out the FA Cup by a team four divisions below us . Something is terribly wrong . Ross had bad patches but he had the same players digging in and getting results . All that fight , passion and desire Ross built in his last few games has now gone . Look at our fighting spirit against Port Vale , where has that disappeared too.

Why can we not afford it ?

Where do we begin...

- loss of TV money
How many times were we live last season ?
Dont think we lost to much

- loss of income from away fan gates at NL vs L2
Really notts county stockport wrexham & a few others to

- reduction in ST income
2 record season ticket sales in National league for us wasnt it .

- loss of funding for the beloved academy (leading to eventual closure)
Takes 2 years for that to happen
Savings of needing to produce young players with no gaurentee of making money back on 1 let alone all

- inability to balance the books with Hearn's ever-increasing rent charges.
Hearn reduced the rent for non league ( at very least froze it while we were there.


If we go down it'll be a blow I don't think the club will recover from

What happened in 2016/17 then in 2018/9 ?

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:24 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:16 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:56 pm

He knows better than most our recent history and so why we're like this . We simply can NOT afford to get relegated again back down to the National League . With Fletcher in charge that could well happen .We've just been outplayed by the worse team the league and knocked out the FA Cup by a team four divisions below us . Something is terribly wrong . Ross had bad patches but he had the same players digging in and getting results . All that fight , passion and desire Ross built in his last few games has now gone . Look at our fighting spirit against Port Vale , where has that disappeared too.

Why can we not afford it ?

Where do we begin...

- loss of TV money
- loss of income from away fan gates at NL vs L2
- reduction in ST income
- loss of funding for the beloved academy (leading to eventual closure)
- inability to balance the books with Hearn's ever-increasing rent charges

If we go down it'll be a blow I don't think the club will recover from

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:10 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:24 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:16 pm

Why can we not afford it ?

Where do we begin...

- loss of TV money
- loss of income from away fan gates at NL vs L2
- reduction in ST income
- loss of funding for the beloved academy (leading to eventual closure)
- inability to balance the books with Hearn's ever-increasing rent charges

If we go down it'll be a blow I don't think the club will recover from

Not to mention a reduction in the money Macklin brings in as sponsors lose interest in being associated with failure. Relegation will be a big deal

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:21 pm

Frogger wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:53 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:49 pm Only to be expected, Fletcher is not the proven experienced manager needed at this level required to push us forward to get promotion, more like get us relegated.

100% been saying this from the start. I just think this was the cheapest option.

Porter says as much in the podcast "fits within the income and infrastructure"

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:21 pm

Frogger wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:53 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:49 pm Only to be expected, Fletcher is not the proven experienced manager needed at this level required to push us forward to get promotion, more like get us relegated.

100% been saying this from the start. I just think this was the cheapest option.

Porter says as much in the podcast "fits within the income and infrastructure"

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:32 am

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:21 pm

Frogger wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:53 pm
100% been saying this from the start. I just think this was the cheapest option.

Porter says as much in the podcast "fits within the income and infrastructure"

Don’t place too much on that quote though. We have a budget for sure let’s say it’s £100k salary, the reality is we will not get Mourinho in so the cloth is cut to meet the budgeted salary. Hence people like Fletch get an interview.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:55 am Think we have to take Porter's comment with a pinch of salt.... designed so that it looks like Fletcher was always the outstanding candidate.

Reality is, had an experienced manager who had won the League before agreed to work within the restrictive terms we set out we may have gone for him, but nobody is going to be saying that now, it is a little undermining to everyone involved.

I think Porter has form for saying things he doesn't mean, seem to recall him being bullish about us making playoffs under Davis when we were bad, when challenged later on with the complete lack of evidence for this on Twitter he said he could not have said the truth, what did you expect him to say (I paraphrase here, but that is the general point).

I do believe in future we will get a manager with several successes and sackings on his CV, Porter will be asked about his comment and he will give a similar response. That's what I want to believe, anyway.

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:39 am Sort of. The club has put in place the dof role with a coaching team to provide continuity, i kind of like this and think it is the right way to work in this day and age.

Till now ML has done a great job and I’ve said that enough times on here however, he has messed up with this appointment. He is blind to the holding midfielder that the team requires. I would be fine if he keeps his job for sure, but he needs to get his sh*t together pretty dam quick.

As for the coaching team staying on, I like that principle however, it does need to be balanced off against “are they good enough for the level we are at” so this needs to be a continuing evolution as we move forwards as a club. Are they good enough now, I’d say yes and like I’ve said before if Justin had been alive we would be challenging for the title of that I’m sure. What they need is direction, leadership and someone to look up to and respect and it seems to me that fletch lacks all of that.

I didn’t get Porters comment of “if you’ve had multiple jobs” then we are not looking at you, strange in the extreme. Pep has managed Barca, Bayern and now City, would he be counted out on the basis of multiple jobs? Foolish is the word that springs to mind.

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:39 am Sort of. The club has put in place the dof role with a coaching team to provide continuity, i kind of like this and think it is the right way to work in this day and age.

Till now ML has done a great job and I’ve said that enough times on here however, he has messed up with this appointment. He is blind to the holding midfielder that the team requires. I would be fine if he keeps his job for sure, but he needs to get his sh*t together pretty dam quick.

As for the coaching team staying on, I like that principle however, it does need to be balanced off against “are they good enough for the level we are at” so this needs to be a continuing evolution as we move forwards as a club. Are they good enough now, I’d say yes and like I’ve said before if Justin had been alive we would be challenging for the title of that I’m sure. What they need is direction, leadership and someone to look up to and respect and it seems to me that fletch lacks all of that.

I didn’t get Porters comment of “if you’ve had multiple jobs” then we are not looking at you, strange in the extreme. Pep has managed Barca, Bayern and now City, would he be counted out on the basis of multiple jobs? Foolish is the word that springs to mind.

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:31 am I can’t speak for his honesty or integrity and I’ve nothing to suggest he lacks either. What I can speak about is his performance as chief at our club. When we played Arsenal and the play offs especially after 2 odd hours in a queue I asked him about improving the ticketing operation as what we had in place was not fit for purpose to cover such large games. His reposnce was “well what do you expect me to do?” Put in place a better system, one that meets the needs and expectations of the fans. Whilst he could not implement a new ticket system or whatever at that time he could have had open more points from which to purchase tickets, more flexibility, hire in some mobile pdq machines so as to process more tickets quicker and so on. Still he kept to the 4 windows and it took forever. I lost a lot of respect for him after that, especially as he’s a fan and he knows what fans want and what they think like. Still I hope he learnt from that episode.

It’s almost as bad a fletchs if we knew that we’d all be millionaires comment.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:06 am

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:39 am Sort of. The club has put in place the dof role with a coaching team to provide continuity, i kind of like this and think it is the right way to work in this day and age.

Till now ML has done a great job and I’ve said that enough times on here however, he has messed up with this appointment. He is blind to the holding midfielder that the team requires. I would be fine if he keeps his job for sure, but he needs to get his sh*t together pretty dam quick.

As for the coaching team staying on, I like that principle however, it does need to be balanced off against “are they good enough for the level we are at” so this needs to be a continuing evolution as we move forwards as a club. Are they good enough now, I’d say yes and like I’ve said before if Justin had been alive we would be challenging for the title of that I’m sure. What they need is direction, leadership and someone to look up to and respect and it seems to me that fletch lacks all of that.

I didn’t get Porters comment of “if you’ve had multiple jobs” then we are not looking at you, strange in the extreme. Pep has managed Barca, Bayern and now City, would he be counted out on the basis of multiple jobs? Foolish is the word that springs to mind.

On what basis is it the right way to work? A man out of his depth has given a group of people jobs for life and built a system where the manager takes sole responsibility for anything that goes wrong but it's shared if it goes right. The players know that the manager's position is never secure and the coaching staff/Ling are the ones in actual control.

Martin Ling has not done a great job. His recruitment is awful. His choice of 3 out of 4 managers has been awful. Being a nice bloke does not compensate for bad decisions. How is he blind to needing a holding midfielder? He signed George Marsh, who is a holding midfielder. Whether he is good enough is a different matter.

Justin wouldn't have had this lot challenging for a title. They're a mid-table team at best. He was a good motivator who understood his team's needs but tactically found wanting a lot.

This alongside your support for Boris Johnson has shown you up as clueless.