Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Milano wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:50 pm Isn't the fact that LOFC doesn't own the ground something we should add into the discussion?

Sure. What impact would that have? I don’t know.
I suspect that if there is money to be made with redevelopment then the owners (I.e. Hearn) would be interested. Would be hard to add any more flats though.

It's owned by a pension fund. The rent is effectively zero but the asset is worth £????? in terms of resale - I assume. Under these circumstances, I can't see why the owner would be interested in any kind of upgrade. It's probably much more complicated than that.

Milano wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:57 pm It's owned by a pension fund. The rent is effectively zero but the asset is worth £????? in terms of resale - I assume. Under these circumstances, I can't see why the owner would be interested in any kind of upgrade. It's probably much more complicated than that.

The ground is listed as a community asset by Waltham Forest which does complicate matters. For the better.

RientO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:25 pm

Milano wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:57 pm It's owned by a pension fund. The rent is effectively zero but the asset is worth £????? in terms of resale - I assume. Under these circumstances, I can't see why the owner would be interested in any kind of upgrade. It's probably much more complicated than that.

The ground is listed as a community asset by Waltham Forest which does complicate matters. For the better.

Didn’t Hearn get around that recently? I’m sure he did with the pension fund sale?

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:51 pm

RientO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:25 pm

Milano wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:57 pm It's owned by a pension fund. The rent is effectively zero but the asset is worth £????? in terms of resale - I assume. Under these circumstances, I can't see why the owner would be interested in any kind of upgrade. It's probably much more complicated than that.

The ground is listed as a community asset by Waltham Forest which does complicate matters. For the better.

Didn’t Hearn get around that recently? I’m sure he did with the pension fund sale?

Maybe. I don’t know. I suspect Hearn can’t turn the ground into flats because of it so a redevelopment of the east stand might be the best way to maximise his returns.

RientO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:51 pm

RientO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:25 pm

The ground is listed as a community asset by Waltham Forest which does complicate matters. For the better.

Didn’t Hearn get around that recently? I’m sure he did with the pension fund sale?

Maybe. I don’t know. I suspect Hearn can’t turn the ground into flats because of it so a redevelopment of the east stand might be the best way to maximise his returns.

If Orient were no longer in the ground for whatever reason I'm 100% confident Hearn would get permission for flats without any problem. Too much requirement on councils to meet housing targets to leave a plot the size of BR undeveloped.

What with paying the best part of £200k a year in rent it doesn't seem to make much sense spending our own money on a ground we don't own. If there's any quick fixes to gain another couple hundred seats then that's worth a look but putting new stands up doesn't seem a good investment.

On a similar note what would happen if the East Stand were ever to get condemned like the old West was? Would it be on LOFC to rebuild it from scratch or Hearn?

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:26 pm

RientO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:51 pm

Didn’t Hearn get around that recently? I’m sure he did with the pension fund sale?

Maybe. I don’t know. I suspect Hearn can’t turn the ground into flats because of it so a redevelopment of the east stand might be the best way to maximise his returns.

If Orient were no longer in the ground for whatever reason I'm 100% confident Hearn would get permission for flats without any problem. Too much requirement on councils to meet housing targets to leave a plot the size of BR undeveloped.

What with paying the best part of £200k a year in rent it doesn't seem to make much sense spending our own money on a ground we don't own. If there's any quick fixes to gain another couple hundred seats then that's worth a look but putting new stands up doesn't seem a good investment.

On a similar note what would happen if the East Stand were ever to get condemned like the old West was? Would it be on LOFC to rebuild it from scratch or Hearn?

Why would Orient leave? Only good reason is an offer they can’t refuse with a new stadium.
I think Hearn believed Orient could get a ground in the Olympic park. Even if wasn’t the main stadium then perhaps the hockey pitch.

Hearn knows Orient won’t leave, so he needs to look at maximising his return. £200k/year is peanuts for that much land. The only opportunity for that would be a new east stand, but the only way of making that happen would be to pedestrianise or compulsory purchase on Brisbane road. A joint venture between Hearn, Orient and Waltham Forest could seal the deal. But until Orient are on the verge of the championship, it doesn’t make much sense.

Don’t know about whose responsible for any rebuild, but I do agree he’d get permission to build once we leave. LBWF is just one big massive building project right now, everywhere you go flats are going up in huge numbers.

I hate what’s he’s done to our ground and I hate the fact that he’s turned us over in relation to growth due to the housing estate on the outside of our ground.

RientO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:36 pm [
Why would Orient leave? Only good reason is an offer they can’t refuse with a new stadium.
I think Hearn believed Orient could get a ground in the Olympic park. Even if wasn’t the main stadium then perhaps the hockey pitch.

Yup on both counts. If we did need capacity and cost of a whole new stadium elsewhere is anywhere near the development cost then the club would have a decision to make for the long-term.

For any of this to become an issue we'd need to continue our success up the leagues. We rarely sold out in 13-14 but granted we've added a fair number since then thanks to the #ourclub effect and uptick in commercial activity.

Some mis conceptions on this thread.

There are not and haven't been any plans to redevelop the East stand, the club would not want to do this while the ground is owned by someone else, however good the relationship between Travis and Hearn. Porter had said that the height of any future development might be to reconfigure the aisles to squeeze in a few more seats.

The West stand does not have footings to support a second tier, the only stand that could have had a second tier with minimal modification was the South this now is out of the question because of the flats at the rear of the stand which were not a part of the original flats on the corners scheme.

Even if the club wanted to build a new ground and it certainly is not a priority at the moment but if it was to change in the future there does not appear to be a suitable site for a new ground within Waltham Forest, the club and LBWF have already done a feasibility study and could not identify a site.

Long term the only viable option is for the club to buy back the ground the east stand could be redeveloped but likelihood is it would have to be on the footprint of the current stand because of light issues with the flats.

Capacity not really an issue at the moment but eliminating ghost season ticket holders in the North stand needs to be addressed.

RientO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:36 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:26 pm

RientO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Maybe. I don’t know. I suspect Hearn can’t turn the ground into flats because of it so a redevelopment of the east stand might be the best way to maximise his returns.

If Orient were no longer in the ground for whatever reason I'm 100% confident Hearn would get permission for flats without any problem. Too much requirement on councils to meet housing targets to leave a plot the size of BR undeveloped.

What with paying the best part of £200k a year in rent it doesn't seem to make much sense spending our own money on a ground we don't own. If there's any quick fixes to gain another couple hundred seats then that's worth a look but putting new stands up doesn't seem a good investment.

On a similar note what would happen if the East Stand were ever to get condemned like the old West was? Would it be on LOFC to rebuild it from scratch or Hearn?

Why would Orient leave? Only good reason is an offer they can’t refuse with a new stadium.
I think Hearn believed Orient could get a ground in the Olympic park. Even if wasn’t the main stadium then perhaps the hockey pitch.

Hearn knows Orient won’t leave, so he needs to look at maximising his return. £200k/year is peanuts for that much land. The only opportunity for that would be a new east stand, but the only way of making that happen would be to pedestrianise or compulsory purchase on Brisbane road. A joint venture between Hearn, Orient and Waltham Forest could seal the deal. But until Orient are on the verge of the championship, it doesn’t make much sense.

Unless I’m really badly sighted what is their to compulsory purchase on Brisbane Rd bar the East stand? Oh and the Laurie Cunningham plaque

Surely the answer to extra capacity lies with a rebuilt East stand.
This could be two tier stand, with cantilever roof, slightly reduced rake of seats and partial overhang at the rear of the stand could offer 6,000 plus seats.Then at the back of the lower tier we could incorporate executive boxes .

The executive area directors gallery in West stand could be modified to add perhaps another 200 odd seats.

Filling in the moat of South stand a further 300+ and we could have a compact stadium of approx 12,000.

Top of the west has it nailed. There's nothing going to happen.

Winchesterfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:44 pm Surely the answer to extra capacity lies with a rebuilt East stand.
This could be two tier stand, with cantilever roof, slightly reduced rake of seats and partial overhang at the rear of the stand could offer 6,000 plus seats.Then at the back of the lower tier we could incorporate executive boxes .

The executive area directors gallery in West stand could be modified to add perhaps another 200 odd seats.

Filling in the moat of South stand a further 300+ and we could have a compact stadium of approx 12,000.

seriously

NOM wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:49 pm

Winchesterfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:44 pm Surely the answer to extra capacity lies with a rebuilt East stand.
This could be two tier stand, with cantilever roof, slightly reduced rake of seats and partial overhang at the rear of the stand could offer 6,000 plus seats.Then at the back of the lower tier we could incorporate executive boxes .

The executive area directors gallery in West stand could be modified to add perhaps another 200 odd seats.

Filling in the moat of South stand a further 300+ and we could have a compact stadium of approx 12,000.

seriously

Yes

Winchesterfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:44 pm Surely the answer to extra capacity lies with a rebuilt East stand.
This could be two tier stand, with cantilever roof, slightly reduced rake of seats and partial overhang at the rear of the stand could offer 6,000 plus seats.Then at the back of the lower tier we could incorporate executive boxes .

The executive area directors gallery in West stand could be modified to add perhaps another 200 odd seats.

Filling in the moat of South stand a further 300+ and we could have a compact stadium of approx 12,000.

This sounds great.
How do plan financing a 12m project?

Milano wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:57 pm It's owned by a pension fund. The rent is effectively zero but the asset is worth £????? in terms of resale - I assume. Under these circumstances, I can't see why the owner would be interested in any kind of upgrade. It's probably much more complicated than that.

It’s not zero, it’s £200k p.a. The ground is worth £6m. So that’s a return of 3.3% p.a.

Low but not ridiculously so.

The owner should be grateful that they’ve managed to extract an asset worth that much fromLOFC.

I understand the rent has been waived, year on year, ever since T and T took over. I don't have the accounts

Winchesterfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:44 pm Surely the answer to extra capacity lies with a rebuilt East stand.
This could be two tier stand, with cantilever roof, slightly reduced rake of seats and partial overhang at the rear of the stand could offer 6,000 plus seats.Then at the back of the lower tier we could incorporate executive boxes .

The executive area directors gallery in West stand could be modified to add perhaps another 200 odd seats.

Filling in the moat of South stand a further 300+ and we could have a compact stadium of approx 12,000.

At the moment even if we had the finance, it would be building on land owned by the Matchroom pension fund which would be fraught with legal issues. It's not a good business plan either because we wouldn't fill it for league games and unless we got a massive cup home game never at all.

Even buying back the ground from MPF would leave us with a ground which had Three stands that could not be extended.

Top of the West. wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:10 am

Winchesterfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:44 pm Surely the answer to extra capacity lies with a rebuilt East stand.
This could be two tier stand, with cantilever roof, slightly reduced rake of seats and partial overhang at the rear of the stand could offer 6,000 plus seats.Then at the back of the lower tier we could incorporate executive boxes .

The executive area directors gallery in West stand could be modified to add perhaps another 200 odd seats.

Filling in the moat of South stand a further 300+ and we could have a compact stadium of approx 12,000.

At the moment even if we had the finance, it would be building on land owned by the Matchroom pension fund which would be fraught with legal issues. It's not a good business plan either because we wouldn't fill it for league games and unless we got a massive cup home game never at all.

Even buying back the ground from MPF would leave us with a ground which had Three stands that could not be extended.

Unfortunately I don’t think the residents in Brisbane Road would welcome a rebuilt East Stand which would be higher and probably block sunlight etc
I think that it’s great that this great club of ours is finally moving in the right direction and people are even talking about needing a bigger stadium.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:49 am

Top of the West. wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:10 am

Winchesterfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:44 pm Surely the answer to extra capacity lies with a rebuilt East stand.
This could be two tier stand, with cantilever roof, slightly reduced rake of seats and partial overhang at the rear of the stand could offer 6,000 plus seats.Then at the back of the lower tier we could incorporate executive boxes .

The executive area directors gallery in West stand could be modified to add perhaps another 200 odd seats.

Filling in the moat of South stand a further 300+ and we could have a compact stadium of approx 12,000.

At the moment even if we had the finance, it would be building on land owned by the Matchroom pension fund which would be fraught with legal issues. It's not a good business plan either because we wouldn't fill it for league games and unless we got a massive cup home game never at all.

Even buying back the ground from MPF would leave us with a ground which had Three stands that could not be extended.

Unfortunately I don’t think the residents in Brisbane Road would welcome a rebuilt East Stand which would be higher and probably block sunlight etc
I think that it’s great that this great club of ours is finally moving in the right direction and people are even talking about needing a bigger stadium.

Jeez how many more times
There is no residents in Brisbane Rd

Milano wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:38 am I understand the rent has been waived, year on year, ever since T and T took over. I don't have the accounts

Where the hell have you got that from?

The answer to the capacity issue obviously lies with standing terraces....

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:06 am The answer to the capacity issue obviously lies with standing terraces....

In all likelihood it wont be an issue in League 2 and even League 1. Only if Os make Championship would it become one and then the pressure would be to retain seats. Not 100% sure, but I think Brentford are the only Championship side with standing and that will only be for next season prior to their move to their new stadium.

I can't see an option to redevelop the West now with parts of the stand being sold to other concerns?

The East however could be, with help from the council we may be able to take over a bit more of Brisbane Road to build a deeper stand.