Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:48 pm**

If we go behind on Saturday, the atmosphere will be toxic to say the least. I wish I could be optimistic but unfortunately with this man in charge........

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:14 pm**

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:46 pm We will survive, but forget top half.

Wish I had your conviction, however today's game brought further realities home. Can't believe the whole decision makers got it so hopelessly wrong, We/us the fans knew from the outset we needed a proven manager, why oh why did the top brass fail to wonder why we were so underwhelmed twice in same season

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:20 pm**

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:14 pm
Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:46 pm We will survive, but forget top half.
Wish I had your conviction, however today's game brought further realities home. Can't believe the whole decision makers got it so hopelessly wrong, We/us the fans knew from the outset we needed a proven manager, why oh why did the top brass fail to wonder why we were so underwhelmed twice in same season

Such a shame. The good will that has been built up with the fans by the current Board is in danger of evaporating.

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:51 pm**

We have the infrastructure and backroom staff to help Fletcher get through this but so far he looks as though he wants everybody to know he is boss. Last week he didn't start our best player against the bottom team and then set us up to defend. Today he dropped our No 1 keeper and Ekpiteta, all of this suggests he's looking to assert himself. It would be stupid to let him go (and they won't) because then we end up back in the bad old days. Our next game is at home to a team that have picked up two points away all season. Let's not show them respect and go out and score goals, you never know this approach might actually work!

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:00 pm**

Well that’s it then. A team that’s not got anything all year rocking up to Brisbane road. If I had a £1 every time we’ve done that down the years I could have watched the club for free for the rest of my life.

Now you’ve said this we are a dead cert to lose. Arhhhhhh

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:11 pm**

jamespevans wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:51 pm We have the infrastructure and backroom staff to help Fletcher get through this but so far he looks as though he wants everybody to know he is boss. Last week he didn't start our best player against the bottom team and then set us up to defend. Today he dropped our No 1 keeper and Ekpiteta, all of this suggests he's looking to assert himself. It would be stupid to let him go (and they won't) because then we end up back in the bad old days. Our next game is at home to a team that have picked up two points away all season. Let's not show them respect and go out and score goals, you never know this approach might actually work!

Not a question of Fletcher trying to “ assert himself” so much as Fletcher not knowing what his best team is. Let’s face it not many players have so far have given him much to enthuse about!

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:17 pm**

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:14 pm
Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:46 pm We will survive, but forget top half.
Wish I had your conviction, however today's game brought further realities home. Can't believe the whole decision makers got it so hopelessly wrong, We/us the fans knew from the outset we needed a proven manager, why oh why did the top brass fail to wonder why we were so underwhelmed twice in same season

At the time ,the appointment of Ross as temporary First Team Coach was completely understandable and correct . On the other hand the appointment of Fletcher was simply bluffing .

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:21 pm**

redintheface wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:20 pm
point nine one eight wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:14 pm
Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:46 pm We will survive, but forget top half.
Wish I had your conviction, however today's game brought further realities home. Can't believe the whole decision makers got it so hopelessly wrong, We/us the fans knew from the outset we needed a proven manager, why oh why did the top brass fail to wonder why we were so underwhelmed twice in same season
Such a shame. The good will that has been built up with the fans by the current Board is in danger of evaporating.

Dig beneath the surface and there's still tonnes of good will towards the board. Mistakes can always be corrected.

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:27 pm**

redintheface wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:11 pm
jamespevans wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:51 pm We have the infrastructure and backroom staff to help Fletcher get through this but so far he looks as though he wants everybody to know he is boss. Last week he didn't start our best player against the bottom team and then set us up to defend. Today he dropped our No 1 keeper and Ekpiteta, all of this suggests he's looking to assert himself. It would be stupid to let him go (and they won't) because then we end up back in the bad old days. Our next game is at home to a team that have picked up two points away all season. Let's not show them respect and go out and score goals, you never know this approach might actually work!
Not a question of Fletcher trying to “ assert himself” so much as Fletcher not knowing what his best team is. Let’s face it not many players have so far have given him much to enthuse about!

Indeed the players need to take their share of the responsibility but whatever happened to the so called " new manager bounce ". Our new bloke has fallen flat on his face .

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:40 pm**

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:21 pm
redintheface wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:20 pm
point nine one eight wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:14 pm
Wish I had your conviction, however today's game brought further realities home. Can't believe the whole decision makers got it so hopelessly wrong, We/us the fans knew from the outset we needed a proven manager, why oh why did the top brass fail to wonder why we were so underwhelmed twice in same season
Such a shame. The good will that has been built up with the fans by the current Board is in danger of evaporating.
Dig beneath the surface and there's still tonnes of good will towards the board. Mistakes can always be corrected.

Let us see what happens in the coming weeks. The Board have been faced with very difficult circumstances since JE’s passing but personally I have not felt they have made good decisions in either of the head coach appointments they have made. I am sure they feel their choices were logical but hopefully they will be pragmatic enough to act decisively if things do not improve.

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:07 pm**

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:46 pm We will survive, but forget top half.

Agreed, definitely need some additions in January. Not necessarily quality wise either. Just 1 or 2 with a bit of desire & aggression to shake things up.
Today's result & performance should really hurt. I'm still hurting & I've had 5 pints & a bottle of red to numb the pain.
Think we still have to give Fletcher a proper chance though. 5 games however poor they have been is too early to axe. Even though Ross was a buffer, he is always going to be judged against JE which is a little unfair.
Well done to M & T though.

Posted: **Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:12 pm**

redintheface wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:20 pm
point nine one eight wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:14 pm
Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:46 pm We will survive, but forget top half.
Wish I had your conviction, however today's game brought further realities home. Can't believe the whole decision makers got it so hopelessly wrong, We/us the fans knew from the outset we needed a proven manager, why oh why did the top brass fail to wonder why we were so underwhelmed twice in same season
Such a shame. The good will that has been built up with the fans by the current Board is in danger of evaporating.

And quickly.

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:33 am**

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:17 pm
point nine one eight wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:14 pm
Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:46 pm We will survive, but forget top half.
Wish I had your conviction, however today's game brought further realities home. Can't believe the whole decision makers got it so hopelessly wrong, We/us the fans knew from the outset we needed a proven manager, why oh why did the top brass fail to wonder why we were so underwhelmed twice in same season
At the time ,the appointment of Ross as temporary First Team Coach was completely understandable and correct . On the other hand the appointment of Fletcher was simply bluffing .

I was saying Ross wasn't man for the job from 3rd game, some agreed others didn't however I was proved right eventually, Norman Stanley, 5 games, half of one game ok the rest was crap. We all saw his post match interviews and from second game we all knew he weren't up to it.

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:39 am**

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:33 am
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:17 pm
point nine one eight wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:14 pm
Wish I had your conviction, however today's game brought further realities home. Can't believe the whole decision makers got it so hopelessly wrong, We/us the fans knew from the outset we needed a proven manager, why oh why did the top brass fail to wonder why we were so underwhelmed twice in same season
At the time ,the appointment of Ross as temporary First Team Coach was completely understandable and correct . On the other hand the appointment of Fletcher was simply bluffing .
I was saying Ross wasn't man for the job from 3rd game, some agreed others didn't however I was proved right eventually, Norman Stanley, 5 games, half of one game ok the rest was crap. We all saw his post match interviews and from second game we all knew he weren't up to it.

He's clearly not up to it but he'll be given far more time to prove what we already know right now .

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:46 am**

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:39 am
point nine one eight wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:33 am
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:17 pm

At the time ,the appointment of Ross as temporary First Team Coach was completely understandable and correct . On the other hand the appointment of Fletcher was simply bluffing .
I was saying Ross wasn't man for the job from 3rd game, some agreed others didn't however I was proved right eventually, Norman Stanley, 5 games, half of one game ok the rest was crap. We all saw his post match interviews and from second game we all knew he weren't up to it.
He's clearly not up to it but he'll be given far more time to prove what we know right now .

This time I think the club will react a lot sooner, he has lost the dressing room, our gates will fall and with it the chop for Norman, a lot of hard work went into the club by Nigel and Kent they will not want to see that fritter away during the season, then redouble the work to get back to square one

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:21 am**

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:46 am
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:39 am
point nine one eight wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:33 am
I was saying Ross wasn't man for the job from 3rd game, some agreed others didn't however I was proved right eventually, Norman Stanley, 5 games, half of one game ok the rest was crap. We all saw his post match interviews and from second game we all knew he weren't up to it.
He's clearly not up to it but he'll be given far more time to prove what we know right now .

This time I think the club will react a lot sooner, he has lost the dressing room, our gates will fall and with it the chop for Norman, a lot of hard work went into the club by Nigel and Kent they will not want to see that fritter away during the season, then redouble the work to get back to square one

I hope you're right .

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:18 am**

redintheface wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:11 pm
jamespevans wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:51 pm We have the infrastructure and backroom staff to help Fletcher get through this but so far he looks as though he wants everybody to know he is boss. Last week he didn't start our best player against the bottom team and then set us up to defend. Today he dropped our No 1 keeper and Ekpiteta, all of this suggests he's looking to assert himself. It would be stupid to let him go (and they won't) because then we end up back in the bad old days. Our next game is at home to a team that have picked up two points away all season. Let's not show them respect and go out and score goals, you never know this approach might actually work!
Not a question of Fletcher trying to “ assert himself” so much as Fletcher not knowing what his best team is. Let’s face it not many players have so far have given him much to enthuse about!

He might not know his best team, but what advice or direction is he seeking from his coaching team? I’d suggest they know the players really well and whilst they are not the head coach it seems he’s not listening to them.

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:22 am**

In what way?

We’re putting out pretty much the same teams and formation as we were in the latter stages of Embletons reign.

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:44 am**

I like Dayton he’s a good player, but after the length of time he’s been out you bring him back slowly, instead he’s rammed straight back in. Dennis and Brophy as centre forwards, never seen that at Brisbane Rd before. Ling straight back in when Judd should have been given an extended (yes 2 games is extended for him is unfortunately) run in the side. During games the interaction between him and the coaching team seems to have been held back, last season they would all be communicating with Justin, now they seem to just sit there most of the time, to be fair that might be how fletch wants it?

Then you have the tactics issue, the lack of motivated players and on and on it goes. I think he’s actually thinking the coaching team are not what he wants despite them being a success under a proper leader. Right now it’s a mess and one I hope he can sort out before it’s too late.

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:19 am**

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:18 am
redintheface wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:11 pm
jamespevans wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:51 pm We have the infrastructure and backroom staff to help Fletcher get through this but so far he looks as though he wants everybody to know he is boss. Last week he didn't start our best player against the bottom team and then set us up to defend. Today he dropped our No 1 keeper and Ekpiteta, all of this suggests he's looking to assert himself. It would be stupid to let him go (and they won't) because then we end up back in the bad old days. Our next game is at home to a team that have picked up two points away all season. Let's not show them respect and go out and score goals, you never know this approach might actually work!
Not a question of Fletcher trying to “ assert himself” so much as Fletcher not knowing what his best team is. Let’s face it not many players have so far have given him much to enthuse about!
He might not know his best team, but what advice or direction is he seeking from his coaching team? I’d suggest they know the players really well and whilst they are not the head coach it seems he’s not listening to them.

Or is he getting duff advice from them?

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:02 am**

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:44 am I like Dayton he’s a good player, but after the length of time he’s been out you bring him back slowly, instead he’s rammed straight back in. Dennis and Brophy as centre forwards, never seen that at Brisbane Rd before. Ling straight back in when Judd should have been given an extended (yes 2 games is extended for him is unfortunately) run in the side. During games the interaction between him and the coaching team seems to have been held back, last season they would all be communicating with Justin, now they seem to just sit there most of the time, to be fair that might be how fletch wants it?

Then you have the tactics issue, the lack of motivated players and on and on it goes. I think he’s actually thinking the coaching team are not what he wants despite them being a success under a proper leader. Right now it’s a mess and one I hope he can sort out before it’s too late.

Ross had played both Brophy and Dennis off of a front man on lots of occasions.

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:07 am**

Yes, but in that game he took the front man off who was MH and plonked those two as centre forwards. You and I would have had as a good chance of doing well against those centre halves.

Personally I think with the players we have are suited to 4-3-2-1 now if we add in a holding meodfielder then a 4-2-3-1 would work really well.

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:08 am**

I’m saying in lots of games. They’ve both played in this deeper forward role.

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:14 am**

But not without a main target man they have not. I have no problem in them playing there both off say Harold, but not instead of, both too light weight and not good in the air so when we lump it the inevitable will happen we lose possession.

Posted: **Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:24 am**

Ah, I understand now. You’re rightly criticising him for the few minutes he played just them up top, not for when they’re playing off a front man.

Yeah, of course that was odd. But 1) Harold struggles for 90 mins up top on his own and 2) Alabi. So maybe didn’t have much choice. Not as if he’s done it again.

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