Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I doubt there will be another yin like it.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:49 pm

bobo66 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:31 pm What do boarders think would be worst:

- Make us a laughing stock by getting rid of Fletcher after 5 games (especially bearing in mind the Bechetti era
- Being relegated back to the National League after 1 season

I thought he was a bad choice when he was appointed, but can't make up my mind whether I want to revert to the short termism of the previous regime or try and stick with it, even at huge cost.

There is a cost to everything.

The new guy has inherited a squad of players most of whom aren't up to it. They only just got us over the line in the NL with a style of football that, given the limitations in key areas, was necessary but made your brain bleed.

JE has to take credit for making the best from a poor squad. I'm sure he knew the task ahead was to make substantial changes but sadly he is not around to do it.

The club made a major error in appointing an interim manager given the enormity of the task in hand.

They may have compounded that error with the appointment of Carl Fletcher when an experienced manager was required to rebuild and provide leadership and direction, time will tell.

If the rumours about the current coaching staff being obstructive are true (and it sounds like they are) then it needs to be addressed head on and ironed out. If the disagreements cant be sorted the club needs to back Fletcher.

More later I'm sure.

There were no apparent problems before Fletcher arrived, therefore Fletcher is the problem and he must go !

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:49 pm

bobo66 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:31 pm What do boarders think would be worst:

- Make us a laughing stock by getting rid of Fletcher after 5 games (especially bearing in mind the Bechetti era
- Being relegated back to the National League after 1 season

I thought he was a bad choice when he was appointed, but can't make up my mind whether I want to revert to the short termism of the previous regime or try and stick with it, even at huge cost.

There is a cost to everything.

The new guy has inherited a squad of players most of whom aren't up to it. They only just got us over the line in the NL with a style of football that, given the limitations in key areas, was necessary but made your brain bleed.

JE has to take credit for making the best from a poor squad. I'm sure he knew the task ahead was to make substantial changes but sadly he is not around to do it.

The club made a major error in appointing an interim manager given the enormity of the task in hand.

They may have compounded that error with the appointment of Carl Fletcher when an experienced manager was required to rebuild and provide leadership and direction, time will tell.

If the rumours about the current coaching staff being obstructive are true (and it sounds like they are) then it needs to be addressed head on and ironed out. If the disagreements cant be sorted the club needs to back Fletcher.

More later I'm sure.

There were no apparent problems before Fletcher arrived, therefore Fletcher is the problem and he must go !

There were quite a few boarders on here who thought Embleton was a problem before Fletcher arrived and wanted a replacement, preferably an experienced Manager. Unfortunately we got Fletcher, but there were problems before.
Of course, making everyone happy is impossible, Justin was probably the nearest we got to perfection for most.
What will be interesting is whether Kent and Nigel back Fletcher with funds in January or replace him before that allowing the new man to bring in new players.
Lose on Saturday and there will be real pressure on Kent and Nigel to do something.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:30 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:49 pm

There is a cost to everything.

The new guy has inherited a squad of players most of whom aren't up to it. They only just got us over the line in the NL with a style of football that, given the limitations in key areas, was necessary but made your brain bleed.

JE has to take credit for making the best from a poor squad. I'm sure he knew the task ahead was to make substantial changes but sadly he is not around to do it.

The club made a major error in appointing an interim manager given the enormity of the task in hand.

They may have compounded that error with the appointment of Carl Fletcher when an experienced manager was required to rebuild and provide leadership and direction, time will tell.

If the rumours about the current coaching staff being obstructive are true (and it sounds like they are) then it needs to be addressed head on and ironed out. If the disagreements cant be sorted the club needs to back Fletcher.

More later I'm sure.

There were no apparent problems before Fletcher arrived, therefore Fletcher is the problem and he must go !

There were quite a few boarders on here who thought Embleton was a problem before Fletcher arrived and wanted a replacement, preferably an experienced Manager. Unfortunately we got Fletcher, but there were problems before.
Of course, making everyone happy is impossible, Justin was probably the nearest we got to perfection for most.
What will be interesting is whether Kent and Nigel back Fletcher with funds in January or replace him before that allowing the new man to bring in new players.
Lose on Saturday and there will be real pressure on Kent and Nigel to do something.

After 6 games?

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:49 pm

bobo66 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:31 pm What do boarders think would be worst:

- Make us a laughing stock by getting rid of Fletcher after 5 games (especially bearing in mind the Bechetti era
- Being relegated back to the National League after 1 season

I thought he was a bad choice when he was appointed, but can't make up my mind whether I want to revert to the short termism of the previous regime or try and stick with it, even at huge cost.

There is a cost to everything.

The new guy has inherited a squad of players most of whom aren't up to it. They only just got us over the line in the NL with a style of football that, given the limitations in key areas, was necessary but made your brain bleed.

JE has to take credit for making the best from a poor squad. I'm sure he knew the task ahead was to make substantial changes but sadly he is not around to do it.

The club made a major error in appointing an interim manager given the enormity of the task in hand.

They may have compounded that error with the appointment of Carl Fletcher when an experienced manager was required to rebuild and provide leadership and direction, time will tell.

If the rumours about the current coaching staff being obstructive are true (and it sounds like they are) then it needs to be addressed head on and ironed out. If the disagreements cant be sorted the club needs to back Fletcher.

More later I'm sure.

There were no apparent problems before Fletcher arrived, therefore Fletcher is the problem and he must go !

Correct.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:30 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:36 pm

There were no apparent problems before Fletcher arrived, therefore Fletcher is the problem and he must go !

There were quite a few boarders on here who thought Embleton was a problem before Fletcher arrived and wanted a replacement, preferably an experienced Manager. Unfortunately we got Fletcher, but there were problems before.
Of course, making everyone happy is impossible, Justin was probably the nearest we got to perfection for most.
What will be interesting is whether Kent and Nigel back Fletcher with funds in January or replace him before that allowing the new man to bring in new players.
Lose on Saturday and there will be real pressure on Kent and Nigel to do something.

After 6 games?

Yes, it seems like more is going on than just playing sh*t under Fletcher

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:30 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:36 pm

There were no apparent problems before Fletcher arrived, therefore Fletcher is the problem and he must go !

There were quite a few boarders on here who thought Embleton was a problem before Fletcher arrived and wanted a replacement, preferably an experienced Manager. Unfortunately we got Fletcher, but there were problems before.
Of course, making everyone happy is impossible, Justin was probably the nearest we got to perfection for most.
What will be interesting is whether Kent and Nigel back Fletcher with funds in January or replace him before that allowing the new man to bring in new players.
Lose on Saturday and there will be real pressure on Kent and Nigel to do something.

After 6 games?

Well Maxy normally I would agree with you to even think of changing a new Manager after 6 games is ridiculous.
However I think the manner of the two most recent defeats leave fans thinking that something isn’t right behind the scenes between the players, the coaches and Fletch himself.
Morecambe hadn’t won at home before our visit and we start with just one up front and then we lose to a side 4 Leagues below our level, again starting with just one up front.
I saw a lot of angry fans around me at the end of Sunday’s game shouting abuse at Fletch’ which I didn’t like to see to any Orient Manager.
TBF the players should take some blame and we are without our first choice strikers, but something isn’t right behind the scenes.
Let’s see what happens in front of a ‘Full House’ on Saturday.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:35 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:30 pm

There were quite a few boarders on here who thought Embleton was a problem before Fletcher arrived and wanted a replacement, preferably an experienced Manager. Unfortunately we got Fletcher, but there were problems before.
Of course, making everyone happy is impossible, Justin was probably the nearest we got to perfection for most.
What will be interesting is whether Kent and Nigel back Fletcher with funds in January or replace him before that allowing the new man to bring in new players.
Lose on Saturday and there will be real pressure on Kent and Nigel to do something.

After 6 games?

Yes, it seems like more is going on than just playing sh*t under Fletcher

Shouldn't the club try and fix the more that is going on?

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:02 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:30 pm

There were quite a few boarders on here who thought Embleton was a problem before Fletcher arrived and wanted a replacement, preferably an experienced Manager. Unfortunately we got Fletcher, but there were problems before.
Of course, making everyone happy is impossible, Justin was probably the nearest we got to perfection for most.
What will be interesting is whether Kent and Nigel back Fletcher with funds in January or replace him before that allowing the new man to bring in new players.
Lose on Saturday and there will be real pressure on Kent and Nigel to do something.

After 6 games?

Well Maxy normally I would agree with you to even think of changing a new Manager after 6 games is ridiculous.
However I think the manner of the two most recent defeats leave fans thinking that something isn’t right behind the scenes between the players, the coaches and Fletch himself.
Morecambe hadn’t won at home before our visit and we start with just one up front and then we lose to a side 4 Leagues below our level, again starting with just one up front.
I saw a lot of angry fans around me at the end of Sunday’s game shouting abuse at Fletch’ which I didn’t like to see to any Orient Manager.
TBF the players should take some blame and we are without our first choice strikers, but something isn’t right behind the scenes.
Let’s see what happens in front of a ‘Full House’ on Saturday.

No strikers available due to an injury crisis. Therefore, the managers options are restricted and he plays one up front. We lose. Sack the manager.

I believe there are some steps that can be taken before the heave ho. All concerned, coaches, players and fans need to calm the fuk down and work through this like professionals and adults.

Don't forget If that big badly guy is in anyway involved at Morecombe we never do well against them.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:02 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:30 pm

There were quite a few boarders on here who thought Embleton was a problem before Fletcher arrived and wanted a replacement, preferably an experienced Manager. Unfortunately we got Fletcher, but there were problems before.
Of course, making everyone happy is impossible, Justin was probably the nearest we got to perfection for most.
What will be interesting is whether Kent and Nigel back Fletcher with funds in January or replace him before that allowing the new man to bring in new players.
Lose on Saturday and there will be real pressure on Kent and Nigel to do something.

After 6 games?

Well Maxy normally I would agree with you to even think of changing a new Manager after 6 games is ridiculous.
However I think the manner of the two most recent defeats leave fans thinking that something isn’t right behind the scenes between the players, the coaches and Fletch himself.
Morecambe hadn’t won at home before our visit and we start with just one up front and then we lose to a side 4 Leagues below our level, again starting with just one up front.
I saw a lot of angry fans around me at the end of Sunday’s game shouting abuse at Fletch’ which I didn’t like to see to any Orient Manager.
TBF the players should take some blame and we are without our first choice strikers, but something isn’t right behind the scenes.
Let’s see what happens in front of a ‘Full House’ on Saturday.

If we lose it could be Kaiser Chiefs song time, any guesses ?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:23 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:35 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 pm

After 6 games?

Yes, it seems like more is going on than just playing sh*t under Fletcher

Shouldn't the club try and fix the more that is going on?

Yes, they probably should and I wonder what actually is going on ??
Are players not wanting to play for Fletcher??
He doesn’t appear to have an abrasive type personality that would rub coaches or players up the wrong way, so I wonder if any of the bust-up rumours are true ??
Hopefully Kent and Nigel will be there on Saturday, maybe some kind of ‘clear the air ‘ meeting is required.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:39 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:23 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:35 pm

Yes, it seems like more is going on than just playing sh*t under Fletcher

Shouldn't the club try and fix the more that is going on?

Yes, they probably should and I wonder what actually is going on ??
Are players not wanting to play for Fletcher??
He doesn’t appear to have an abrasive type personality that would rub coaches or players up the wrong way, so I wonder if any of the bust-up rumours are true ??
Hopefully Kent and Nigel will be there on Saturday, maybe some kind of ‘clear the air ‘ meeting is required.

The only thing that will smooth the way is 3 points on Saturday. Anything less is just not good enough.

Shocks do happen in football... USA 1 England 0 ……………. Sunderland 1 Leeds 0 …………….. Hereford 2 Newcastle 1. If we beat Scunhorpe on Saturday it'll be yesterday's news.

Just so as to bring about some balance about formations. The last three games of RE’s tenure we played with one up top or as part of a three when going forwards.

Get Wilkinson back with Brophy, Angol, Dennis, JMD etc either side and it will be a different story. 433 suits the players we currently have. We don’t have the players to play 442. The midfield aren’t good enough to do both roles as a 2, the defenders need someone in front to help them.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:30 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:36 pm

There were no apparent problems before Fletcher arrived, therefore Fletcher is the problem and he must go !

There were quite a few boarders on here who thought Embleton was a problem before Fletcher arrived and wanted a replacement, preferably an experienced Manager. Unfortunately we got Fletcher, but there were problems before.
Of course, making everyone happy is impossible, Justin was probably the nearest we got to perfection for most.
What will be interesting is whether Kent and Nigel back Fletcher with funds in January or replace him before that allowing the new man to bring in new players.
Lose on Saturday and there will be real pressure on Kent and Nigel to do something.

After 6 games?

End of third game was enough for me, what on earth was their thinking, how did they all collectively come up with this stupid idea

Don't think we need so much a result as a performance. I haven't been to any of the games but from reports those have been woeful.

No jimbo, I disagree we need both a performance and a result as both have been truly woeful so far under Fletch and the way he conducts himself in interviews is coming across in our play, uninspired.

However, I would take the result over performance on Sat as we need to stop the rot, get some confidence back and look to move forwards with some positivity.

Yeah, go along with that, result over performance. I have only seen the two home games, first half against Carlisle, pretty decent, second half woeful. Sunday's game, well not even worth commenting on, we were so poor!
Personally, I have little sympathy for Fletcher, as he new that he would have to work with existing staff and the quality of players that were available, when he took the job on.
It seems to me that he is trying to apply Premier League tactics to a bog standard League 2 side.
Maybe I have it completely wrong, but on Sunday, there did appear to be a lot of players not putting in the effort, that is required to win a football match, Happe, Brophy and Widdowson, the exceptions for me and of course Sargeant.
Fletcher surely can't have lost the dressing room that quickly, it could just be that these players are not capable of taking on the tactics, that he wants to employ.
Like everybody else, I guess, I want him to be a success, but I won't be holding my breath, as the way we have gone backwards in such a short space of time, is alarming, in my opinion.

Deja vu. Feels so much like Davis all over again. Same issues basically. Not understanding and respecting the division we are in and trying to impose a style of play that the players are not good enough or willing to adapt to. Tick tock.

It does feel like Davis all over again from what I've seen so far.

I have just watched Fletchers Post cup defeat interview. I pressed the stop button after a couple of sentences. You would think he was referring to a five a side first team training loss to our reserve side. I ask again, what on earth did Ling see in this man when listening to him at interview? The mind boggles...!

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:11 pm I have just watched Fletchers Post cup defeat interview. I pressed the stop button after a couple of sentences. You would think he was referring to a five a side first team training loss to our reserve side. I ask again, what on earth did Ling see in this man when listening to him at interview? The mind boggles...!

Did Martin have a box which said motivational skills ? So far I don't think he did .

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:45 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:11 pm I have just watched Fletchers Post cup defeat interview. I pressed the stop button after a couple of sentences. You would think he was referring to a five a side first team training loss to our reserve side. I ask again, what on earth did Ling see in this man when listening to him at interview? The mind boggles...!

Did Martin have a box which said motivational skills ? So far I don't think he did .

I think the only boxes that he didn’t tick were

1.experienced and proven at this level

2. A win ratio that was above all others considered

3.Being able to communicate with fans and players.

4.Being able to win a game

5. Motivational skills

6.Knowing when to quit.

Let's be brutally honest. I suspect he got the job because he was willing to come and not choose his own assistant (and other backroom staff) and he was quite cheap.