Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:03 am**

EN didn’t you ask him who he was looking at? If so who was it? Can only think it’s DH

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:10 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:01 pm
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:51 am
Redcard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:47 am Sweeney when he matures physically will be a very good player and he reminds me in the way he plays of Bobby Fisher a terrific full back of yesteryear. He rarely gives the ball away , his distribution is good and he is quick. It would be another managerial error to let him go cheaply as we did Alzate. Ogie and Sweeney are the future.
Did we let Alzate go cheaply?
As low as £100k if this was accurate

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/leytono ... 22386.html

Not that any of these guesses give the real answer, but just found this past news article.
''Leyton Orient to bank £300,000 from Tristan Abrahams and Steven Alzate sales''
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 00976.html

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:29 pm**

This is the type of thing that makes my blood boil. If Fulham decide they want him, they will offer £100,000 to £250,000, and we will accept, with a follow on selling clause, but nevertheless for a small fee in this day and age.
If we refuse, and the lad gets some first team games, then in a years time, he will be worth £400,000+, and we will have had a year of him playing for us.
Possibly other teams do the same, but i dont care about them. all i know is Orient have been doing this for years......letting players go on the cheap

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:41 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:29 pm This is the type of thing that makes my blood boil. If Fulham decide they want him, they will offer £100,000 to £250,000, and we will accept, with a follow on selling clause, but nevertheless for a small fee in this day and age.
If we refuse, and the lad gets some first team games, then in a years time, he will be worth £400,000+, and we will have had a year of him playing for us.
Possibly other teams do the same, but i dont care about them. all i know is Orient have been doing this for years......letting players go on the cheap

I'd be absolutely thrilled if we got quarter of a million for Jayden Sweeney.

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:50 pm**

Also we're clearly not going to play Sweeney ahead of Widdowson, regularly or otherwise.

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:52 pm**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:50 pm Also we're clearly not going to play Sweeney ahead of Widdowson, regularly or otherwise.

I think Ogie is ahead if him in the pecking order.

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:56 pm**

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:52 pm
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:50 pm Also we're clearly not going to play Sweeney ahead of Widdowson, regularly or otherwise.
I think Ogie is ahead if him in the pecking order.

Yep, that too. £250k plus add ons would be good business for Sweeney given there's no obvious place for him to develop here. We don't want his career to stagnate like Judd's has under similar circumstances and be ultimately worth very little.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:51 am**

This has Nicky Shorey mk2 written all over it.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:04 am**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:56 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:52 pm
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:50 pm Also we're clearly not going to play Sweeney ahead of Widdowson, regularly or otherwise.
I think Ogie is ahead if him in the pecking order.
Yep, that too. £250k plus add ons would be good business for Sweeney given there's no obvious place for him to develop here. We don't want his career to stagnate like Judd's has under similar circumstances and be ultimately worth very little.

£250k

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:08 am**

O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:19 pm I would think £100k for an 18 year old national league player is a good deal. I presume there are add ons also

He was 19, not 18. He has never played in the National League. You're trying to play this down with fake news.

£100k for a player of his obvious potential who is now starting games in the top division just 2 years later is abysmal business.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:19 am**

It was a diabolical piece of business. He would go for a fee in the millions now not the pittance we got. Worse still we do not learn from these mistakes and no doubt will continue to let our most promising youngsters leave at bargain prices.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:22 am**

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:08 am
O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:19 pm I would think £100k for an 18 year old national league player is a good deal. I presume there are add ons also
He was 19, not 18. He has never played in the National League. You're trying to play this down with fake news.

£100k for a player of his obvious potential who is now starting games in the top division just 2 years later is abysmal business.

100k for Sweeney would be more than acceptable.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:36 am**

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:19 am It was a diabolical piece of business. He would go for a fee in the millions now not the pittance we got. Worse still we do not learn from these mistakes and no doubt will continue to let our most promising youngsters leave at bargain prices.

It was regarded as too cheap a fee at the time but as far as I can recall a bit like the Bonne and Koroma transfers, refusal to let the player go would result in an unhappy player who goes for nothing at the end of his contract.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:45 am**

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:19 am It was a diabolical piece of business. He would go for a fee in the millions now not the pittance we got. Worse still we do not learn from these mistakes and no doubt will continue to let our most promising youngsters leave at bargain prices.

This is an old orient issue as well, always selling our players cheap, I trust that the owners have learnt from their previous experience of selling players and get a better return in future on their assets.

Being in the league will also help to both keep the youngsters and also bring in a higher value than you would attain in the NL.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:02 pm**

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:45 am
Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:19 am It was a diabolical piece of business. He would go for a fee in the millions now not the pittance we got. Worse still we do not learn from these mistakes and no doubt will continue to let our most promising youngsters leave at bargain prices.
This is an old orient issue as well, always selling our players cheap, I trust that the owners have learnt from their previous experience of selling players and get a better return in future on their assets.

Being in the league will also help to both keep the youngsters and also bring in a higher value than you would attain in the NL.

The problem is we only have the first team and the under 18s. Unless a player is good enough to be playing regularly in the 1st team, like Happe or Moses, he gets to the end of his scholarship or his first professional deal without experience and is likely to be released. Letting the player go earlier for a small sum + possible additional payments gets him somewhere where he can develop. Good for the player, good for the club.

You also have to look at it from the other end. If you're a promising player, do you sign for the O's if it has the reputation of holding on to young players as long as it can? Or do you sign for a club that you know is prepared to let players move on if they have outgrown the set up?

it is frustrating, but that's the way it is.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:05 pm**

Happe will be next to go as his performances omitting the last one have been really good since he came back into the team as part of a back 4, people will be watching him for sure.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:09 pm**

Rambling Man wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:02 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:45 am
Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:19 am It was a diabolical piece of business. He would go for a fee in the millions now not the pittance we got. Worse still we do not learn from these mistakes and no doubt will continue to let our most promising youngsters leave at bargain prices.
This is an old orient issue as well, always selling our players cheap, I trust that the owners have learnt from their previous experience of selling players and get a better return in future on their assets.

Being in the league will also help to both keep the youngsters and also bring in a higher value than you would attain in the NL.
The problem is we only have the first team and the under 18s. Unless a player is good enough to be playing regularly in the 1st team, like Happe or Moses, he gets to the end of his scholarship or his first professional deal without experience and is likely to be released. Letting the player go earlier for a small sum + possible additional payments gets him somewhere where he can develop. Good for the player, good for the club.

You also have to look at it from the other end. If you're a promising player, do you sign for the O's if it has the reputation of holding on to young players as long as it can? Or do you sign for a club that you know is prepared to let players move on if they have outgrown the set up?

it is frustrating, but that's the way it is.

Of course, all valid points.

Fair to say that if Alzate had stayed, he wouldn't have got much game time under either Davis or Edinburgh. Look at Happe, he's only just become a starter these last few games, 6 months ago he was still fourth choice. I'm just saying that the rumoured fee of £100k is a joke, we should be demanding more.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:13 pm**

Since the posh chairman came in they've sold loads of players for good money, some of the speculation has not worked, but they seem to have a decent strike rate. When they sell a "goodun" they always appear to get good money or good deals, this is what I'd like our owners to wise up too. Full value for the player concerned, supported by a good add on clause in the contract.

They are too smart to keep on selling cheaply.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:27 pm**

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:04 am
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:56 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:52 pm

I think Ogie is ahead if him in the pecking order.
Yep, that too. £250k plus add ons would be good business for Sweeney given there's no obvious place for him to develop here. We don't want his career to stagnate like Judd's has under similar circumstances and be ultimately worth very little.
£250k

What do you feel he is worth? I'm saying I wouldn't be disappointed with the top ceiling of what ComeOnYouOs would be disappointed at because I don't think he will grow and develop enough here, especially with Widdowson and potentially Ogie (who could still shift to CB) ahead of him.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:52 pm**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:56 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:52 pm
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:50 pm Also we're clearly not going to play Sweeney ahead of Widdowson, regularly or otherwise.
I think Ogie is ahead if him in the pecking order.
Yep, that too. £250k plus add ons would be good business for Sweeney given there's no obvious place for him to develop here. We don't want his career to stagnate like Judd's has under similar circumstances and be ultimately worth very little.

Exactly the point, Sweeney would be third choice after Widdowson and Ogie he wouldn't play, better to get a fee and sell on's and also make space in the squad to strengthen other areas.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:04 pm**

Top of the West. wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:52 pm
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:56 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:52 pm

I think Ogie is ahead if him in the pecking order.
Yep, that too. £250k plus add ons would be good business for Sweeney given there's no obvious place for him to develop here. We don't want his career to stagnate like Judd's has under similar circumstances and be ultimately worth very little.
Exactly the point, Sweeney would be third choice after Widdowson and Ogie he wouldn't play, better to get a fee and sell on's and also make space in the squad to strengthen other areas.

I mean it's great to have a pipeline of young talent, but if their path to development is going to be blocked by more established players then we need to maximise any transfers we do for these players. Having him and Ogie developing at the same time and competing for limited playing time to help them develop will make that tricky.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:47 pm**

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:08 am
O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:19 pm I would think £100k for an 18 year old national league player is a good deal. I presume there are add ons also
He was 19, not 18. He has never played in the National League. You're trying to play this down with fake news.

£100k for a player of his obvious potential who is now starting games in the top division just 2 years later is abysmal business.

He was with a National League club at the time & a 1st year professional at 18, signed 5 weeks before his 19th birthday.
Google is a wonderful tool, you should try using it to save egg on your face. Looking at the bigger picture I'm sure the add ons will be more beneficial than the original fee.
Look at all the other hopefuls from that era where the club were criticised for releasing. Moncur, Grainger, Clark, Pollock & Ochieng all playing at National League or below.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:37 pm**

Can’t remember anyone criticising why they were released TBH.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:04 pm**

Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:37 pm Can’t remember anyone criticising why they were released TBH.

Not Grainger, but there was definitely criticism of the other four. And criticism that we'd released Clark or Pollock because we had signed Ekpiteta.

Posted: **Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:09 pm**

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:36 am
Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:19 am It was a diabolical piece of business. He would go for a fee in the millions now not the pittance we got. Worse still we do not learn from these mistakes and no doubt will continue to let our most promising youngsters leave at bargain prices.
It was regarded as too cheap a fee at the time but as far as I can recall a bit like the Bonne and Koroma transfers, refusal to let the player go would result in an unhappy player who goes for nothing at the end of his contract.

Exactly Sid. Whats already been overlooked in this thread is that the player would jump at the opportunity to go to Brighton. I'm sure that we did the best deal we could at the point in time.

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