Independent Leyton Orient Forum

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:43 pm I'm amazed so many people choose not to want a bye and the £36k prize money this coming round

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:55 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:39 pm MK Dons shafted their fans for a start. Other clubs have moved grounds, including Orient, but without shiting on their fan base.

It wasn't their fans- that's the point. It is to all intents and purposes the transformation of one club into a new entity. Both clubs now recognise this, with AFC Wimbledon owning the history of the linear Wimbledon.

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:36 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:55 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:39 pm MK Dons shafted their fans for a start. Other clubs have moved grounds, including Orient, but without shiting on their fan base.

It wasn't their fans- that's the point. It is to all intents and purposes the transformation of one club into a new entity. Both clubs now recognise this, with AFC Wimbledon owning the history of the linear Wimbledon.

As AFC Wimbledon were not formed until 2002 it is sentimental nonsense to say they own the history of a club that existed before then.

Whether you like it or not, AFC Wimbledon cannot have history before they existed.

AFC Wimbledon no more own the history of MK Dons prior to 2002 than FC United own the History of Manchester United. Both clubs were formed by fans unhappy at the actions of the Original Clubs owners. Those 2 clubs still exist and it is nonsense to claim they own the history of another club, especially one still in existence.

Basic logic shows a club cannot have the history of another club that happened before new club existed.

In the same way Accrington Stanley are not one of the original founders of the football league and Bradford (Park Avenue) in National League North are not the same club as the one that ceased to exist in the 1970s

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:55 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:55 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:39 pm MK Dons shafted their fans for a start. Other clubs have moved grounds, including Orient, but without shiting on their fan base.

It wasn't their fans- that's the point. It is to all intents and purposes the transformation of one club into a new entity. Both clubs now recognise this, with AFC Wimbledon owning the history of the linear Wimbledon.

I've never got that point. MKDons are the existing club, it never went out of business so it should still own the fa cup it won, its history of going through the leagues etc. It does still own its league share and have never given it back.

Yes they didn't care about the fans and I get that and I support the AFC part of it, but they are not the existing club.

If T&T get us to the championship and then plan on moving us to say Douglas Eyre in Walthamstow, I can't suddenly say, I ain't having that so I'm setting up AFC Orient and I want the history of Leyton Orient they would rightly tell me to go do one.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:06 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:36 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:55 pm

It wasn't their fans- that's the point. It is to all intents and purposes the transformation of one club into a new entity. Both clubs now recognise this, with AFC Wimbledon owning the history of the linear Wimbledon.

As AFC Wimbledon were not formed until 2002 it is sentimental nonsense to say they own the history of a club that existed before then.

Whether you like it or not, AFC Wimbledon cannot have history before they existed.

AFC Wimbledon no more own the history of MK Dons prior to 2002 than FC United own the History of Manchester United. Both clubs were formed by fans unhappy at the actions of the Original Clubs owners. Those 2 clubs still exist and it is nonsense to claim they own the history of another club, especially one still in existence.

Basic logic shows a club cannot have the history of another club that happened before new club existed.

In the same way Accrington Stanley are not one of the original founders of the football league and Bradford (Park Avenue) in National League North are not the same club as the one that ceased to exist in the 1970s

I know that hard cold fact in a binary manner is your thing but please spare me the rubbish and save some internet.

It wasn't simply a ground move and you know it but I hope you enjoy arguing the technicalities of it and the validation that your binary argument is technically correct.

I'm off for a Turkish and a beer.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:11 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:55 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:55 pm

It wasn't their fans- that's the point. It is to all intents and purposes the transformation of one club into a new entity. Both clubs now recognise this, with AFC Wimbledon owning the history of the linear Wimbledon.

I've never got that point. MKDons are the existing club, it never went out of business so it should still own the fa cup it won, its history of going through the leagues etc. It does still own its league share and have never given it back.

Yes they didn't care about the fans and I get that and I support the AFC part of it, but they are not the existing club.

If T&T get us to the championship and then plan on moving us to say Douglas Eyre in Walthamstow, I can't suddenly say, I ain't having that so I'm setting up AFC Orient and I want the history of Leyton Orient they would rightly tell me to go do one.

It wouldn't be the same though would it.

MK moved to a completely different place, changed the colours and name of the club creating a completely new identity. All they kept was the trading company.

They were a new club, but managed to find a way of working their way through the leagues. At least Salford did that.

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:26 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:11 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:55 pm

I've never got that point. MKDons are the existing club, it never went out of business so it should still own the fa cup it won, its history of going through the leagues etc. It does still own its league share and have never given it back.

Yes they didn't care about the fans and I get that and I support the AFC part of it, but they are not the existing club.

If T&T get us to the championship and then plan on moving us to say Douglas Eyre in Walthamstow, I can't suddenly say, I ain't having that so I'm setting up AFC Orient and I want the history of Leyton Orient they would rightly tell me to go do one.

It wouldn't be the same though would it.

MK moved to a completely different place, changed the colours and name of the club creating a completely new identity. All they kept was the trading company.

They were a new club, but managed to find a way of working their way through the leagues. At least Salford did that.

They were not a new club, they were a club who did as you say, but are not the first team to do any of that.


Woolwich Arsenal Changed to Arsenal. Orient have been Clapton Orient, Leyton Orient and indeed even dropped the name Orient each time creating a different identity. and moved several times. They have changed colours from Blue to Red and have changed their badge

Indeed, even MK Dons in its prior format moved from the Borough of Merton and indeed did AFC Wimbledon when they moved to Kingston.

Nothing unusual in clubs changing locations, names, badges or colours. Indeed, Newcastle United's original colours were red and white stripes like Sunderland and changed to Black and White, moved into the ground of Newcastle West End, have changed their badge many times in my lifetime alone


All the things you say justify boycotting MK Dons, but you still go to Orient.....

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:28 pm A bye would be nice but we will never be that lucky, so I expect a crappy away tie against not the most exciting opposition and we will limp out of the competition, ready to focus on the league.

Article_50 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:47 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:28 pm A bye would be nice but we will never be that lucky, so I expect a crappy away tie against not the most exciting opposition and we will limp out of the competition, ready to focus on the league.

Barrow away

Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:41 pm Sarfend for me.

Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:43 pm When were we not Orient?

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:26 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:11 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:55 pm

I've never got that point. MKDons are the existing club, it never went out of business so it should still own the fa cup it won, its history of going through the leagues etc. It does still own its league share and have never given it back.

Yes they didn't care about the fans and I get that and I support the AFC part of it, but they are not the existing club.

If T&T get us to the championship and then plan on moving us to say Douglas Eyre in Walthamstow, I can't suddenly say, I ain't having that so I'm setting up AFC Orient and I want the history of Leyton Orient they would rightly tell me to go do one.

It wouldn't be the same though would it.

MK moved to a completely different place, changed the colours and name of the club creating a completely new identity. All they kept was the trading company.

They were a new club, but managed to find a way of working their way through the leagues. At least Salford did that.

They were not a new club, they were a club who did as you say, but are not the first team to do any of that.


Woolwich Arsenal Changed to Arsenal. Orient have been Clapton Orient, Leyton Orient and indeed even dropped the name Orient each time creating a different identity. and moved several times. They have changed colours from Blue to Red and have changed their badge

Indeed, even MK Dons in its prior format moved from the Borough of Merton and indeed did AFC Wimbledon when they moved to Kingston.

Nothing unusual in clubs changing locations, names, badges or colours. Indeed, Newcastle United's original colours were red and white stripes like Sunderland and changed to Black and White, moved into the ground of Newcastle West End, have changed their badge many times in my lifetime alone


All the things you say justify boycotting MK Dons, but you still go to Orient.....

Red_Army wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:59 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:26 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:11 pm

It wouldn't be the same though would it.

MK moved to a completely different place, changed the colours and name of the club creating a completely new identity. All they kept was the trading company.

They were a new club, but managed to find a way of working their way through the leagues. At least Salford did that.

They were not a new club, they were a club who did as you say, but are not the first team to do any of that.


Woolwich Arsenal Changed to Arsenal. Orient have been Clapton Orient, Leyton Orient and indeed even dropped the name Orient each time creating a different identity. and moved several times. They have changed colours from Blue to Red and have changed their badge

Indeed, even MK Dons in its prior format moved from the Borough of Merton and indeed did AFC Wimbledon when they moved to Kingston.

Nothing unusual in clubs changing locations, names, badges or colours. Indeed, Newcastle United's original colours were red and white stripes like Sunderland and changed to Black and White, moved into the ground of Newcastle West End, have changed their badge many times in my lifetime alone


All the things you say justify boycotting MK Dons, but you still go to Orient.....

The Arsenal comparison the only point you make that is relevant.

MK Dons killed Wimbledon in all but the legal sense. I'm sure that you will argue that that's all that matters though.

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:56 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:59 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:26 pm


They were not a new club, they were a club who did as you say, but are not the first team to do any of that.


Woolwich Arsenal Changed to Arsenal. Orient have been Clapton Orient, Leyton Orient and indeed even dropped the name Orient each time creating a different identity. and moved several times. They have changed colours from Blue to Red and have changed their badge

Indeed, even MK Dons in its prior format moved from the Borough of Merton and indeed did AFC Wimbledon when they moved to Kingston.

Nothing unusual in clubs changing locations, names, badges or colours. Indeed, Newcastle United's original colours were red and white stripes like Sunderland and changed to Black and White, moved into the ground of Newcastle West End, have changed their badge many times in my lifetime alone


All the things you say justify boycotting MK Dons, but you still go to Orient.....

The Arsenal comparison the only point you make that is relevant.

MK Dons killed Wimbledon in all but the legal sense. I'm sure that you will argue that that's all that matters though.

Wimbledon FC still exist. They play home games now in MK and changed game, but they are still same club, legally and in eyes of the FA/ EFL.

Some of the fans didn't like this and formed their own club. Same as Man U fans did with FC United

As I said Orient have done everything you say MK Don's have done, but you justify treating them differently to MK Dons

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:13 pm Don't you ever get bored of relentlessly flogging false equivalents? Like, never think 'nah, I'll sit this one out and read a book' or something?

banqo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:11 am A bye please, £36,000 for not playing is fine by me.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:01 pm Nah, not rising to it. Find someone else to play with.