Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I can only assume he's been brought in to do exactly what he is doing - sit on the bench as our 4th choice CM. Spurs must have agreed to it.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:02 am

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:51 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:30 am Not a bad team, but Wright has been alright, in general and i just don't think we have good enough CMs to play 3 up front. Ling and Widdowson will be exposed to a good team like Exeter.

What do you mean? We need to play 4-4-2 so both fullbacks have wingers in front of them to give them some protection? Fair point but we've already had to fill up the midfield with the extra man because our midfielders ain't good enough to go 2 v 2 either!

What we're constantly trying to do is field a team which covers up our many weaknesses, rather than going with a formation that plays to our strengths. All of Angol, Brophy, JMD and Dennis are quick, direct, can beat a man and can play intricate football. I'd get all of them into the starting team if possible.

Also, why do people keep calling for Marsh? It's not going to happen. It's clear by now he's been brought in purely to sit on the bench as our 4th CM just in case something happens to one of our other 3.

I agree with you 100% on the point of getting our best players into the team and playing to their strengths. But there's a balance. Unfortunately when we play 3 up i dont think our centre midfielders are good enough to come back and cover, meaning, like crawley, we are susceptible to letting in a lot of goals. In order to get the best out of our attackers, what we really need is central midfielders that they know will be behind them, and if we attack and lose it, they will win the ball back again. At the moment, if we attack with 4/5 players, I'm not confident that the better teams wont just waltz through and score.

Agree as well re Marsh. I've never seen him play but either Ross, Danny and Jobi are completely wrong, or he isn't up to it. Bizarre to bring in a player who's not good enough to start.

The goals we conceded against Crawley were very little to do with our shape. It was individuals making mistakes, or failing to clear the ball. It doesn't matter what shape you play if that happens.

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:22 am I can only assume he's been brought in to do exactly what he is doing - sit on the bench as our 4th choice CM. Spurs must have agreed to it.

Why would anyone expect Marsh to come in and take a starting place immediately. Clay and Wright have been okay so far, but regardless, Marsh is a kid with two professional appearances to his name. It would be a huge gamble to throw him in at this stage.

That doesn't make it a bizarre signing, though. In fact I think it makes perfect sense. He won't be expecting to start and he will get game time in the Trophy. He is covering for Clay in the defensive minded midfield role. Gorman came on against Swindon because he is more attack minded of the replacements in that position.

The issue is that we are weak in that position and have been needing a ball winning midfielder for about 3 years now. We needed to bring someone in who was better than whoever was already in the team, i.e. improvement overall. That didnt happen and now we are wasting (at least some of) a wage on a 4th choice CM who is apparently no better than Clay, Wright or Gorman.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:49 am The issue is that we are weak in that position and have been needing a ball winning midfielder for about 3 years now. We needed to bring someone in who was better than whoever was already in the team, i.e. improvement overall. That didnt happen and now we are wasting (at least some of) a wage on a 4th choice CM who is apparently no better than Clay, Wright or Gorman.

I doubt we are paying much, if anything, of Marsh's wages.

We have a ball winner already. We bought in Wright to replace Lee and that has been an improvement. If we were looking for another midfielder, my preferance would be for a box to box player rather than another ball winner, to drive us forward a bit more. Gorman showed a flash of that on Saturday and hopefully he keeps that up. Another ball winner would not improve us as a team because that is not where our weakness lies.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:07 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:49 am The issue is that we are weak in that position and have been needing a ball winning midfielder for about 3 years now. We needed to bring someone in who was better than whoever was already in the team, i.e. improvement overall. That didnt happen and now we are wasting (at least some of) a wage on a 4th choice CM who is apparently no better than Clay, Wright or Gorman.

I doubt we are paying much, if anything, of Marsh's wages.

We have a ball winner already. We bought in Wright to replace Lee and that has been an improvement. If we were looking for another midfielder, my preferance would be for a box to box player rather than another ball winner, to drive us forward a bit more. Gorman showed a flash of that on Saturday and hopefully he keeps that up. Another ball winner would not improve us as a team because that is not where our weakness lies.

Don’t disagree, and maybe it’s semantics, but when I say ball winner, I mean a player who can win us the ball, track back from attacks, etc...and then carry the thing back to our forwards.

I don’t really think clay or Wright can do that consistently.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:49 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:07 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:49 am The issue is that we are weak in that position and have been needing a ball winning midfielder for about 3 years now. We needed to bring someone in who was better than whoever was already in the team, i.e. improvement overall. That didnt happen and now we are wasting (at least some of) a wage on a 4th choice CM who is apparently no better than Clay, Wright or Gorman.

I doubt we are paying much, if anything, of Marsh's wages.

We have a ball winner already. We bought in Wright to replace Lee and that has been an improvement. If we were looking for another midfielder, my preferance would be for a box to box player rather than another ball winner, to drive us forward a bit more. Gorman showed a flash of that on Saturday and hopefully he keeps that up. Another ball winner would not improve us as a team because that is not where our weakness lies.

Don’t disagree, and maybe it’s semantics, but when I say ball winner, I mean a player who can win us the ball, track back from attacks, etc...and then carry the thing back to our forwards.

I don’t really think clay or Wright can do that consistently.

It is indeed semantics. You are describing a box to box player which I think we lack.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:07 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:49 am The issue is that we are weak in that position and have been needing a ball winning midfielder for about 3 years now. We needed to bring someone in who was better than whoever was already in the team, i.e. improvement overall. That didnt happen and now we are wasting (at least some of) a wage on a 4th choice CM who is apparently no better than Clay, Wright or Gorman.

I doubt we are paying much, if anything, of Marsh's wages.

We have a ball winner already. We bought in Wright to replace Lee and that has been an improvement. If we were looking for another midfielder, my preferance would be for a box to box player rather than another ball winner, to drive us forward a bit more. Gorman showed a flash of that on Saturday and hopefully he keeps that up. Another ball winner would not improve us as a team because that is not where our weakness lies.

Exactly what Wumble said. We need and still need someone to start in that position.

Wright has come in to replace Jobi, not Lee. Lee was sitting on the bench. It's clear that Jobi isn't going to feature much for us, if at all and Wright is the same sort of player in that position.

A ball winner is exactly what we missed on Saturday. Swindons 60/70% possession proves that.

That Anthony Grant, who came on for them, looked good

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:23 pm That Anthony Grant, who came on for them, looked good

Especially when he went to trap the ball and fell flat on his ass

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:23 pm That Anthony Grant, who came on for them, looked good

We made him look good ☹☹

We had good possession against other teams though, so maybe that was an off game.

I do think we can be half-decent with a shuffle in personnel and a more Dawson/Chambers/Vincelot type player in midfield.

Obviously, scores don't tell the whole story because opposition react differently in context, but we have played three teams who supposedly might feature in the top 7 this season - Plymouth, Mansfield, Swindon.

We have played roughly 150 minutes against these sides using a 5-3-2 formation and lost aggregate score of 7-0 in this time. A goal conceded every 20 mins and a bit and virtually zero chances created.

We have also played roughly 120 minutes against these sides using 4 at the back and won by aggregate of 3-0. No goals conceded at all.

As I said doesn't tell the whole story but I think it's safe to say we don't have the players to play 5-3-2. Notably most of the defenders and midfielders are the same ones as last year, and if we were in the division below we'd have enough to sneak past lower quality teams without ever thrashing them. Which is pretty much what was delivered last year in that formation.

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:05 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:07 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:49 am The issue is that we are weak in that position and have been needing a ball winning midfielder for about 3 years now. We needed to bring someone in who was better than whoever was already in the team, i.e. improvement overall. That didnt happen and now we are wasting (at least some of) a wage on a 4th choice CM who is apparently no better than Clay, Wright or Gorman.

I doubt we are paying much, if anything, of Marsh's wages.

We have a ball winner already. We bought in Wright to replace Lee and that has been an improvement. If we were looking for another midfielder, my preferance would be for a box to box player rather than another ball winner, to drive us forward a bit more. Gorman showed a flash of that on Saturday and hopefully he keeps that up. Another ball winner would not improve us as a team because that is not where our weakness lies.

Exactly what Wumble said. We need and still need someone to start in that position.

Wright has come in to replace Jobi, not Lee. Lee was sitting on the bench. It's clear that Jobi isn't going to feature much for us, if at all and Wright is the same sort of player in that position.

A ball winner is exactly what we missed on Saturday. Swindons 60/70% possession proves that.

I disagree. They had so much possession because we sat off and let them have it and tried to play on the break. A ball winner would have had no impact here- even if they did win it back, the way we were set up we wouldn't have had much of a chance to keep it.

I think that this was the first league game this season where we had less possession than our opponents which shows that we can dictate games. Un fortunately, our shape and Swindon's quality made that impossible on Saturday.

Jeez this analysis is longer than Shearer and Wright on MOTD
We lost get over it it’s Monday now

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:23 pm That Anthony Grant, who came on for them, looked good

The hard man in the middle of midfield? Yeah, that’s what we’re missing. Not good enough to start for them and would walk into our first team. Is he availabble?

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:22 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:23 pm That Anthony Grant, who came on for them, looked good

The hard man in the middle of midfield? Yeah, that’s what we’re missing. Not good enough to start for them and would walk into our first team. Is he availabble?

He was available about 2 weeks ago...we were linked, we obviously passed, or swindon paid more.

Linked by the plethora of fake news Leyton Orient Hub

He was never coming here

I think the most telling thing is the number who have dropped Coulson. Arguably our best player last season, but it seems the extra yard of pace, and fitness in this league is a step too much for him.

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:08 am I think the most telling thing is the number who have dropped Coulson. Arguably our best player last season, but it seems the extra yard of pace, and fitness in this league is a step too much for him.

He holds his wrist in pain in the last 3 games ive seen. He's not fit imo.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:19 am

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:08 am I think the most telling thing is the number who have dropped Coulson. Arguably our best player last season, but it seems the extra yard of pace, and fitness in this league is a step too much for him.

He holds his wrist in pain in the last 3 games ive seen. He's not fit imo.

Are you saying he’s limp wristed Wumble?
That’s a big accusation

Its not the 1960's mate.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:33 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:05 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:07 pm

I doubt we are paying much, if anything, of Marsh's wages.

We have a ball winner already. We bought in Wright to replace Lee and that has been an improvement. If we were looking for another midfielder, my preferance would be for a box to box player rather than another ball winner, to drive us forward a bit more. Gorman showed a flash of that on Saturday and hopefully he keeps that up. Another ball winner would not improve us as a team because that is not where our weakness lies.

Exactly what Wumble said. We need and still need someone to start in that position.

Wright has come in to replace Jobi, not Lee. Lee was sitting on the bench. It's clear that Jobi isn't going to feature much for us, if at all and Wright is the same sort of player in that position.

A ball winner is exactly what we missed on Saturday. Swindons 60/70% possession proves that.

I disagree. They had so much possession because we sat off and let them have it and tried to play on the break. A ball winner would have had no impact here- even if they did win it back, the way we were set up we wouldn't have had much of a chance to keep it.

I think that this was the first league game this season where we had less possession than our opponents which shows that we can dictate games. Un fortunately, our shape and Swindon's quality made that impossible on Saturday.

We let them have it?

We couldn't get near them.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:54 am Its not the 1960's mate.

Are you sure? someone mentioned they where a Luddite on a previous thread seems we are going in reverse

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:57 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:33 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:05 pm

Exactly what Wumble said. We need and still need someone to start in that position.

Wright has come in to replace Jobi, not Lee. Lee was sitting on the bench. It's clear that Jobi isn't going to feature much for us, if at all and Wright is the same sort of player in that position.

A ball winner is exactly what we missed on Saturday. Swindons 60/70% possession proves that.

I disagree. They had so much possession because we sat off and let them have it and tried to play on the break. A ball winner would have had no impact here- even if they did win it back, the way we were set up we wouldn't have had much of a chance to keep it.

I think that this was the first league game this season where we had less possession than our opponents which shows that we can dictate games. Un fortunately, our shape and Swindon's quality made that impossible on Saturday.

We let them have it?

We couldn't get near them.

We did. We set up to concede possession and try to counter attack. It didn't work.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:37 am

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:57 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:33 pm

I disagree. They had so much possession because we sat off and let them have it and tried to play on the break. A ball winner would have had no impact here- even if they did win it back, the way we were set up we wouldn't have had much of a chance to keep it.

I think that this was the first league game this season where we had less possession than our opponents which shows that we can dictate games. Un fortunately, our shape and Swindon's quality made that impossible on Saturday.

We let them have it?

We couldn't get near them.

We did. We set up to concede possession and try to counter attack. It didn't work.

I think we set up primarily not to concede a goal. But when we did we’re not able or willing to change until too late