essexfootball wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:42 pm
Can't constantly blame recruitment, there are about 15 very very average teams in this league
Recruitment is down to unrealistic budget needed to bring in the quality of players needed at this level, that’s totally down to NT.You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear, in my opinion NT is way out of his depth and should have looked for massive investment as soon as we were promoted to League 1.
The budget level is fine. It’s just being wasted.
This season we are paying Moncur, Piggot, Theo, Graham, Donley and Hemming, all of whom are contributing the sum total of zero to our efforts. You then have the likes of Warrington and Perkins who Richie hasn’t trusted to start games until recently (and having seen them play, he was right). Then you have DJ, who Richie still doesn’t trust to start a game.
Bandy Legs wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 11:21 pm
Not my job & they can only go by what the likes of Spurs tell us. Donley is raved about, but it's L1 mens Football not Prem youth,
I’d hope our recruitment involves actually looking at the players ourselves, not just asking the club how good their player is….
essexfootball wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:42 pm
Can't constantly blame recruitment, there are about 15 very very average teams in this league
Recruitment is down to unrealistic budget needed to bring in the quality of players needed at this level, that’s totally down to NT.You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear, in my opinion NT is way out of his depth and should have looked for massive investment as soon as we were promoted to League 1.
The budget level is fine. It’s just being wasted.
This season we are paying Moncur, Piggot, Theo, Graham, Donley and Hemming, all of whom are contributing the sum total of zero to our efforts. You then have the likes of Warrington and Perkins who Richie hasn’t trusted to start games until recently (and having seen them play, he was right). Then you have DJ, who Richie still doesn’t trust to start a game.
Have to disagree, if the budget level is fine we would actually go and buy the quality of players needed to have a quality squad that should injuries occur there would be an equal quality player to take their place.Its obvious from the amount of loans and the quality that the club do not have the finances needed to progress and are likely to be relegated as a direct result.
Money has been wasted but that again is in my opinion due to insufficient funding in recent years to bring in the quality of permanent players needed.
I’ve just listed 8 players there who aren’t contributing at all.
We’re told our budget is 15th out of 24. That should be enough for a manager of Richie’s ability to secure a top 10 finish. But it’s being massively wasted by poor recruitment.
Token wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:45 pm
Richie is far from perfect. He needs to improve his sideline discipline, be less rigid in his ideas and be less loyal to certain players. And plenty of other things.
But he is also the best and most likeable manager we have had in my 40 plus years of supporting Orient. Even if we were to get relegated, which I don’t think we will, I would still want him here next season.
I must disagree: Jimmy Bloomfield, Russell Slade and Justin Edinburgh were more likeable and better managers.
Token wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:45 pm
Richie is far from perfect. He needs to improve his sideline discipline, be less rigid in his ideas and be less loyal to certain players. And plenty of other things.
But he is also the best and most likeable manager we have had in my 40 plus years of supporting Orient. Even if we were to get relegated, which I don’t think we will, I would still want him here next season.
I must disagree: Jimmy Bloomfield, Russell Slade and Justin Edinburgh were more likeable and better managers.
I’m too young for Bloomfield. Agree with you on Slade, but he had longer and if he was judged at the beginning of November 2012, you wouldn’t have got many takers for his popularity or quality. And as for JE, his achievement was at a lower level and a lot of views of him are shaped by the tragic end to his story.
Token wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:45 pm
Richie is far from perfect. He needs to improve his sideline discipline, be less rigid in his ideas and be less loyal to certain players. And plenty of other things.
But he is also the best and most likeable manager we have had in my 40 plus years of supporting Orient. Even if we were to get relegated, which I don’t think we will, I would still want him here next season.
I must disagree: Jimmy Bloomfield, Russell Slade and Justin Edinburgh were more likeable and better managers.
essexfootball wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:42 pm
Can't constantly blame recruitment, there are about 15 very very average teams in this league
Recruitment is down to unrealistic budget needed to bring in the quality of players needed at this level, that’s totally down to NT.You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear, in my opinion NT is way out of his depth and should have looked for massive investment as soon as we were promoted to League 1.
The 13/14 team was made up of free players, it is possible to get a decent team without spending much money. And how do you know we have not been looking for investment after we went up?
It's not just the loan players that have been, in the main, disappointing. There were long periods in the first half yesterday when I completely forgot that Warrington was even playing. And, in the second half, the same applied to Jaiyesimi. Based on what I've seen so far, these guys look nowhere near League 1 standard.
The same applies to Perkins who was totally anonymous yesterday and Donley can't even get in the squad. I really wonder about the quality of these Premier under 23 teams. I think the players get bigged up to much and then, when they start to play real football, a lot of them are found sadly wanting. You can get the odd good one of course - O'Neil looked really decent in the second half of last season - but even he seems to have gone backwards this time round.
Token wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:45 pm
Richie is far from perfect. He needs to improve his sideline discipline, be less rigid in his ideas and be less loyal to certain players. And plenty of other things.
But he is also the best and most likeable manager we have had in my 40 plus years of supporting Orient. Even if we were to get relegated, which I don’t think we will, I would still want him here next season.
I must disagree: Jimmy Bloomfield, Russell Slade and Justin Edinburgh were more likeable and better managers.
Add Carey and Petchey to that list imho.
Carey, Petchey, and Bloomfield all more than 40 years ago. Richie has two Championships, and a Wembley trophy, Russell Slade was a nice guy who won nothing. I wouldn't argue that Justin wasn't better, but he's the only maybe in the last 40 years. Richie is passionate. Passionate managers are loved by their own fans, but not by the opposition.
Wellens needs to shape up, sod recruitment, it's his job to get results and currently sitting fourth bottom, at points looking awful, the squad is easily good enough to stay up, yesterday the bench was Hemming, Cooper, Simpson, Pratley, Graham, Jay, Ball - Plenty of experience and ability there, most clubs in this league would happily take that, that's whilst missing Clare, Theo, O'Neil, Donley, Sweeney, far too much is made about the "squad"
Highwood Man wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:58 am
It's not just the loan players that have been, in the main, disappointing. There were long periods in the first half yesterday when I completely forgot that Warrington was even playing. And, in the second half, the same applied to Jaiyesimi. Based on what I've seen so far, these guys look nowhere near League 1 standard.
The same applies to Perkins who was totally anonymous yesterday and Donley can't even get in the squad. I really wonder about the quality of these Premier under 23 teams. I think the players get bigged up to much and then, when they start to play real football, a lot of them are found sadly wanting. You can get the odd good one of course - O'Neil looked really decent in the second half of last season - but even he seems to have gone backwards this time round.
Not saying Warrington played well yesterday, but I thought he we was better than Brown. I can't fault Browns commitment, but he appears to be another player who has gone backwards this season. Obviously our biggest problem as we all knew it would be is the loss of El Mizouni. Appears to me that we have Brown and Warrington in front of the back four, not venturing forwards, and Galbraith behind the the front three not venturing backwards. Net result is the ball gets knocked long to forwards who struggle in physical challenges. El Mizouni was the glue putting it altogether. Our best performance of the season was at Stockport with Clare in midfield, where we were a working unit in the middle, unfortunately as soon as things were starting to look up he hit the treatment table.
Again that falls to Wellens though, it was known for ages El Miz was leaving, so either a replacement was needed or an extra player in the middle or a change of style, every week is almost the same thing with no result, it's madness, I rate Wellens but this season is showing why he is at Leyton Orient and will never go higher, another manager would've changed it up a bit, changed tact, Wellens is too invested in his football ideology and not realising it's results that matter, plus possession doesn't equals win, yesterday was it one shot on target or two, the front three who are all small, barely had the ball to feet once, you can see all this clearly from the stands
Token wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:45 pm
Richie is far from perfect. He needs to improve his sideline discipline, be less rigid in his ideas and be less loyal to certain players. And plenty of other things.
But he is also the best and most likeable manager we have had in my 40 plus years of supporting Orient. Even if we were to get relegated, which I don’t think we will, I would still want him here next season.
I must disagree: Jimmy Bloomfield, Russell Slade and Justin Edinburgh were more likeable and better managers.
Cant comment on Bloomfield.
Slade and Edinburgh were undoubtedly good man managers and got the most out of players. But Wellens is a far better tactician and much more knowledgable than either, especially Justin. There's no comparison on that front.
We went direct plenty last night and have done so previously this season. Wellens has his principles but he's clearly adapted them this year. Whether we have the right players for that is another question.
Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:20 am
It's weird that you have some people complaining he's too rigid and set in his ways, and others moaning he tinkers too much and makes too many subs.
I think the problem is, we are fans but he himself doesn't the answers right now to this, a lot of the current issues stem from Richie this season not knowing his best 11, best style, best formation, best subs, we look confused and clueless a lot of the time, especially in the final third, when you watch Orient plays once the ball gets to the final third we look clueless with no real idea of what to do and then the ball goes back and back, till a big kick that one of the front three won't win in the air, there isn't a defined playstyle, most other teams you know the wingers will run with the ball or the big striker will hold it, there is no attacking plan
gshaw wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:26 pm
Richie has proven he can be successful with us when given the resources he asks for. If change is to be made I wouldn't be starting with the manager.
I don't think any other manager in League 1 could do much better with the squad he's been handed.
I've it before and I'll say it again , Richie is one of the best managers this club has ever had . If Richie left we'd get relegated for sure . I don't blame the manager for our blight , I blame the board . Our recruitment during the Summer was pants . You could see we were going to hit trouble by the calibre of signings we were making . TBH, I can't see our recruitment being any better in January so we're in deep sh*t this season .
Why blame the board for our recruitment?
The money needed to compete in L1 this season wasn't available unfortunately
Token wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:45 pm
Richie is far from perfect. He needs to improve his sideline discipline, be less rigid in his ideas and be less loyal to certain players. And plenty of other things.
But he is also the best and most likeable manager we have had in my 40 plus years of supporting Orient. Even if we were to get relegated, which I don’t think we will, I would still want him here next season.
I must disagree: Jimmy Bloomfield, Russell Slade and Justin Edinburgh were more likeable and better managers.
Cant comment on Bloomfield.
Slade and Edinburgh were undoubtedly good man managers and got the most out of players. But Wellens is a far better tactician and much more knowledgable than either, especially Justin. There's no comparison on that front.
Well, those tactics are not working are they.. his team have been serving up, by and large, dross for the last season and half. His disciplinary record is also a disgrace which is reflected on his team. And as far as those aforementioned ex Orient managers go he doesn't hold a candle to them as far as an endearing personality goes.
