Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I'd bin off the whole youth system and have a development squad of 16-18 year olds released by prem teams. Any that show promise get contracts the next season, otherwise they get released.

gshaw wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:25 pm

LittleMate wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:07 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:30 pm
Also interesting that the club often talks about the Brentford model, the first thing they did when going up the leagues was bin their academy...

The first thing they did was turn to the analysts - who binned the academy in favour of an analytical approach. They started a development squad instead.

These days they have an academy. Jobi's youngest signed for them this season.

You make a good point here about the B team / development squad, it's one of the things Ling has said in recent times I've thought was spot on. What I don't get is why you'd do that *and* have an academy full of coaching staff.

Also true that Brentford have brought the latter back now they're flush with Premiership cash, whereas we're struggling to hold head above water in League 1, that's the difference.

It says something when we have two academy GKs on the books and neither are seen as a viable option so we get someone else's academy GK in to learn on the job, it's all a bit strange.

Keeley was a panic loan. Hemmings played so inexplicably poorly in his first half dozen games that the club had to do something - and I reckon we must be locked in to keeping Hemmings for the season. It looks all the worse now because (a) his form came back as easily as it first disappeared and (b) Keeley is every bit as good if not better.

If we continue to perform poorly on the pitch, but pull far enough clear then we could have to send Keeley back as an economic measure???? Just a thought.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:32 pm
Maybe it's time for a new DoF?

It's the obvious variable that the owners could change if the current model isn't working. But it would be a bold move when they're clearly desperate for new investors.

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:09 pm I'd bin off the whole youth system and have a development squad of 16-18 year olds released by prem teams. Any that show promise get contracts the next season, otherwise they get released.

A ‘development squad’ is the age group above this, those finishing U18s football through to 21/22 year olds.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:41 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:32 pm
Maybe it's time for a new DoF?

It's the obvious variable that the owners could change if the current model isn't working. But it would be a bold move when they're clearly desperate for new investors.

I can’t imagine Lingy is the most attractive proposition to American investors?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:53 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:41 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:32 pm
Maybe it's time for a new DoF?

It's the obvious variable that the owners could change if the current model isn't working. But it would be a bold move when they're clearly desperate for new investors.

I can’t imagine Lingy is the most attractive proposition to American investors?

Me neither. But lumping in a load of dosh just as you add any degree of uncertainty and disruption isn't going to be attractive either.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:27 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:53 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:41 am

It's the obvious variable that the owners could change if the current model isn't working. But it would be a bold move when they're clearly desperate for new investors.

I can’t imagine Lingy is the most attractive proposition to American investors?

Me neither. But lumping in a load of dosh just as you add any degree of uncertainty and disruption isn't going to be attractive either.

New investors would be able to see past the current personnel and would most likely have their own people in mind anyway.

They may even consider a bit of disruption to be a good thing. If they saw what I saw on Saturday they will agree with me that there are several people who need a rocket up their arse.

Our off field staffing has increased drastically mainly in the commercial area, last season they were missing budgets set for them by the board. This season we suddenly have a Chief Operating Officer Officer- Why?

Every project that Mr Devlin oversees in farmed out to a third party at a cost to the club. Stadium naming rights, Stadium improvements and sites for a new ground while he continues to expand his team, I spoke to some Brentford fans in the pub recently and their opinion was that he was massively over rated at Brentford and the Chairman there took Ona very hands on approach and Mr Devlin left. Our chairman seems to hang on his every word but since his appointment rather help reduce our losses it’s gone the other way.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:52 am

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:09 pm I'd bin off the whole youth system and have a development squad of 16-18 year olds released by prem teams. Any that show promise get contracts the next season, otherwise they get released.

A ‘development squad’ is the age group above this, those finishing U18s football through to 21/22 year olds.

Sure, but nothing stopping you having 16-18 year olds in it.

Just saying that 16-18 counts as the youth system.

Thats where most of the cost will be, having this group of boys in 5 days a week with full time staff looking after them. (Yes, I know some funding will be received as they’re in ‘education’).

The cost of having 7 or 8 Under 8s in for training 3 hours a week and a game on Sunday will be negligible.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:08 pm Our off field staffing has increased drastically mainly in the commercial area, last season they were missing budgets set for them by the board. This season we suddenly have a Chief Operating Officer Officer- Why?

Every project that Mr Devlin oversees in farmed out to a third party at a cost to the club. Stadium naming rights, Stadium improvements and sites for a new ground while he continues to expand his team, I spoke to some Brentford fans in the pub recently and their opinion was that he was massively over rated at Brentford and the Chairman there took Ona very hands on approach and Mr Devlin left. Our chairman seems to hang on his every word but since his appointment rather help reduce our losses it’s gone the other way.

It does seem that Mr Devlins support team expands I imagine he and his team don’t come cheap. I would like to know how much his costs impacts on our playing budget. Perhaps the board should look into why we need such an expanding team and its achievements. After all did Barry Hearn have such a big backroom team when we were last in !1.

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:00 am

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:08 pm Our off field staffing has increased drastically mainly in the commercial area, last season they were missing budgets set for them by the board. This season we suddenly have a Chief Operating Officer Officer- Why?

Every project that Mr Devlin oversees in farmed out to a third party at a cost to the club. Stadium naming rights, Stadium improvements and sites for a new ground while he continues to expand his team, I spoke to some Brentford fans in the pub recently and their opinion was that he was massively over rated at Brentford and the Chairman there took Ona very hands on approach and Mr Devlin left. Our chairman seems to hang on his every word but since his appointment rather help reduce our losses it’s gone the other way.

It does seem that Mr Devlins support team expands I imagine he and his team don’t come cheap. I would like to know how much his costs impacts on our playing budget. Perhaps the board should look into why we need such an expanding team and its achievements. After all did Barry Hearn have such a big backroom team when we were last in !1.

As well as the employee costs its also about what additional revenue the commercial team generate. Nigel was a CEO and Kent is a rapacious venture capitalist so I'm sure they will have a handle on it and will regularly do a Cost/Benefits analysis.

Can't recall BH having a big commercial team but I do know he leveraged his network of business contacts and utilised Matchroom staff quite a bit. He managed a fairly tight ship and kept the losses to around £1m a year whilst eventually attaining L1 status and keeping us there for a decent period of time. Almost made the Championship, had it not been for Jones.

Things have moved on since then and the economics of L1 football are very different. Don't forget cleaning up the Bullshitti mess was expensive and has lasting impact.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:10 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:21 am

o-no wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:09 am I think the ego's of rich men always make them think they can do a better job than whoever went before.

I do think there are things we can do to make the club sustainable at this level, but it requires a major clearout and a renewed focus on things that can generate money if done properly, like scouting and developing youth Peterborough-style. It's a bit of a change of mindset from little Leyton Orient, community club etc.

What do you mean by a major clear out?

We already develop youth but just not very profitably. How would you change it?

I think scouting has to improve drastically.

The only scout that I know of at the club is Steve Foster………Do we have any others ??
I remember us getting Marvin Ekpiteta from East Thurrock, I think, but I can’t think of many others that have been ‘discovered’ from Non League as I think that clubs like Peterborough do

Marvin is proving to be a bit of a bomb scare in defence of a Saturday afternoon for the Edinburgh Hibernians.