Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Don’t panic, Labour have got it covered and one of the ways they’ll achieve net zero is by importing fuel from…… North Korea and Afghanistan

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment ... orth-korea

Loyal_Supporter wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:20 pm With the way things are going, climate change wont finish Earth...it will be nuclear weapons and wars.

Having seen the BBC weather yesterday, I am surprised that we are still here.

Anyway, the planet will not die until either the sun expires a major collision or man finds a way to blow it up, we do not have that capacity yet.

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:04 pm

Loyal_Supporter wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:20 pm With the way things are going, climate change wont finish Earth...it will be nuclear weapons and wars.

Having seen the BBC weather yesterday, I am surprised that we are still here.

Anyway, the planet will not die until either the sun expires a major collision or man finds a way to blow it up, we do not have that capacity yet.

When is the sun due to expire?

My advice, knowing one or two things about the Sun & stuff, is to throw tomato soup over paintings by Picasso. Most of his stuff was pretty toilet anyway,

Pagan Orient wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 9:36 am My advice, knowing one or two things about the Sun & stuff, is to throw tomato soup over paintings by Picasso. Most of his stuff was pretty toilet anyway,

If anyone is genuinely serious about raising awareness of the climate catrasto-genocide, then they need to do something that will really get them noticed. So, until the day they use tomato soup to draw a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad, I question JSO's commitment to the cause.

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:04 pm

Loyal_Supporter wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:20 pm With the way things are going, climate change wont finish Earth...it will be nuclear weapons and wars.

Having seen the BBC weather yesterday, I am surprised that we are still here.

Anyway, the planet will not die until either the sun expires a major collision or man finds a way to blow it up, we do not have that capacity yet.

The planet may not die but us humans will be long gone down to our own greed and ignorance.

We cant reduce the worlds population and have capitalism or even fund things like pensions, can we?

Nope. You can either have a post-industrial society with the environmental burden it produces, or a pre-industrial society with the green benefits. You cannot have both.

The former has enabled a rapid increase in human population, and increased health and wealth metrics per capita. A move to the latter would see a rapid reversal.

Only a few honest environmentalists admit to the problem that you can't fudge your way out of the climate megadeath spiral with "green tech" etc. Only a rapid and significant reduction in global consumption will make any difference. Which, even if that was possible, would mean billions of people have to die.

And it's not just a feature of capitalism either. Communist/socialist societies have also pursued industrialisation just as eagerly.

But western world birth rates have steadily declined right?

Tech is the only workable solution. For starters, we can and are using it to reduce emissions. what is the most likely way the climate is going to end civilisation as we know it? And can we not prempt that and engineer some solutions?

Not just western nations, but most developing nations are seeing fertility rates decline towards or below replacement levels. The only reason the global population has been increasing for the last 25 years is because so many people are living longer relative to their predecessors (a further benefit to living in a post-industrial age).

However, when the eventual population peak has occurred (and it may already have done), the reduction will not be at a rate or in the numbers required to replicate the environmental conditions of a pre-industrial world.

And climate change isn't going to end civilisation. It's just going to impact on it in some way. Despite what modelling climate scientists have carried out, nobody can be really sure what that impact will look like. It could be really bad. Or it could be a tad inconvenient (although, preparing for the worst does make sense).

In my experience - which is limited to construction - most green tech has proven to be a dud. It has either failed to deliver the benefits on which it was sold (usually by shifting the environmental impact to somewhere else out of sight) or has made the situation worse. It's one thing I agree with George Monbiot on.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 3:23 pm
And climate change isn't going to end civilisation. It's just going to impact on it in some way. Despite what modelling climate scientists have carried out, nobody can be really sure what that impact will look like. It could be really bad. Or it could be a tad inconvenient (although, preparing for the worst does make sense).

How can you state that “climate change isn’t going to end civilisation” and then say “nobody can be really sure what that impact will look like”. That doesn’t really make any sense.

Why would you assume 'end of civilisation '?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:13 pm Why would you assume 'end of civilisation '?

What's the defintion of 'civilisation'? To me it's about learning, community, co-operation and most importantly respect for the nature of the tiny ball (globe) within the vast universe on which we exist and on which our living depends.

The reality seems to be about greed of individuals and striving for power over others (individuals, nations, races, national resources, etc, etc)
Destruction of 'opponents' seems to be more important in that power play (regardless of the global consequences) than investments into co-operation to facilitate human existence. 'Politics' are really just a tool in persuit of that power play.

A civilization is a society characterized by its advanced development and organization. Civilizations have urban areas, a surplus of food, a writing system, and a division of labor. Civilizations also have monuments, religions, governments, a shared method of communication, and ways to trade goods and services.

As long as Earth is still here and habitable when I snuff it, that's all I really care about. If it starts fizzing and popping and mankind is wiped out after that - not really my problem. Couple of hundred million years down the line we can start over again I would imagine. Next time, the O's will be top dogs though!

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... idence-aoe

Yep we're screwed

Worth reading the “about this content” link on the article to get it in context.

Wake up people

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:14 pm Wake up people

Hope the Spanish people are ok. I'll be long gone and I have no kids so I could care less about climate change.

Loyal_Supporter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 5:14 pm

Hope the Spanish people are ok. I'll be long gone and I have no kids so I could care less about climate change.

You must have someone in future generations you love and care about ? I've no kids etc, but still worry terribly about my nieces, nephews, god-children and younger friends.

Plus - it seems that the definition of "long gone" might need re-looked at. This sh*t's happening now.

Loyal_Supporter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 5:14 pm

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:14 pm Wake up people

Hope the Spanish people are ok. I'll be long gone and I have no kids so I could care less about climate change.

That’s the spirit!

You know sh*t's getting real when extreme weather events occur in places where some of us own property.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 5:46 pm You know sh*t's getting real when extreme weather events occur in places where some of us own property.

I'm sure I speak for the entire MB when I say we feel your pain.

I mean, it’s not as extreme but the fact that it’s 18 degrees a few days next week and we are into November is mental. Don’t remember a milder autumn