Farage - whose side is he on?

[Beradogs]

The Guardian, yes The Guardian, got it right this morning. Farage is the only one that actually looks like he is enjoying himself.

[The Mindsweep]

Farage couldn't be bothered to attend the husting event that all Clacton candidates were attending. I have had a total of 6 Reform leaflets put through my door, 2 Tory and 1 each from Labour and the Lib Dems. He will be my MP. So proud.

[Max B Gold]

It’s not a view I agree with. I think you think that the NHS would be better if the private sector didn’t exist. I don’t think that logic stacks up with any meaningful evidence.

You believe if Uber or taxis were not available then public transport would be better? I don’t think so.

The NHS would be better if private medicine did not exist because it leeches off of it whilst not bearing the true cost of using its staff and facilities. For one thing if doctors were not moonlighting and working second jobs they would be available to help reduce NHS waiting lists.

If public transport was free/affordable and reliable it would be better. Its a political choice. Take action to improve it or price people out on to the roads.

Taxis would still exist for the necessary short journeys but properly regulated as regards fares, drivers rights & remuneration etc

But the NHS doesn’t have a waiting list or shortages due to a lack of people. It has these things due to a lack of funding. You think the NHS doesn’t receive payments from the private sector for use of their facilities. You think doctors would work more hours on less money if they couldn’t operate privately? Of course not, they would eventually move to do something else where they have the freedom to earn a living how they wish. Your whole theory is too simplistic and just doesn’t stack up to any scrutiny.

Yes waiting lists are due to underfunding but moonlighting doctors is also a factor.

NHS may receive payment but who pays for and trains doctors, nurses etc. Not private medicine.

Where did I say doctors should not be adequately rewarded for their NHS work?

Your whole supporting argument isn't simplistic it is nonsense.

[DrWindy]

The NHS would be better if private medicine did not exist because it leeches off of it whilst not bearing the true cost of using its staff and facilities. For one thing if doctors were not moonlighting and working second jobs they would be available to help reduce NHS waiting lists.

If public transport was free/affordable and reliable it would be better. Its a political choice. Take action to improve it or price people out on to the roads.

Taxis would still exist for the necessary short journeys but properly regulated as regards fares, drivers rights & remuneration etc

But the NHS doesn’t have a waiting list or shortages due to a lack of people. It has these things due to a lack of funding. You think the NHS doesn’t receive payments from the private sector for use of their facilities. You think doctors would work more hours on less money if they couldn’t operate privately? Of course not, they would eventually move to do something else where they have the freedom to earn a living how they wish. Your whole theory is too simplistic and just doesn’t stack up to any scrutiny.

Yes waiting lists are due to underfunding but moonlighting doctors is also a factor.

NHS may receive payment but who pays for and trains doctors, nurses etc. Not private medicine.

Where did I say doctors should not be adequately rewarded for their NHS work?

Your whole supporting argument isn't simplistic it is nonsense.

I am sorry you feel my argument is nonsense. I just believe in freedom and choice. You seem to take the view that unless everyone can afford it then it should be banned. What a frightening thought.

[Max B Gold]

But the NHS doesn’t have a waiting list or shortages due to a lack of people. It has these things due to a lack of funding. You think the NHS doesn’t receive payments from the private sector for use of their facilities. You think doctors would work more hours on less money if they couldn’t operate privately? Of course not, they would eventually move to do something else where they have the freedom to earn a living how they wish. Your whole theory is too simplistic and just doesn’t stack up to any scrutiny.

Yes waiting lists are due to underfunding but moonlighting doctors is also a factor.

NHS may receive payment but who pays for and trains doctors, nurses etc. Not private medicine.

Where did I say doctors should not be adequately rewarded for their NHS work?

Your whole supporting argument isn't simplistic it is nonsense.

I am sorry you feel my argument is nonsense. I just believe in freedom and choice. You seem to take the view that unless everyone can afford it then it should be banned. What a frightening thought.

As noted above there is no "freedom of choice" for people who can't afford it. It's a nonsense argument. No need to apologise.

[Hoover Attack]

But the NHS doesn’t have a waiting list or shortages due to a lack of people. It has these things due to a lack of funding. You think the NHS doesn’t receive payments from the private sector for use of their facilities. You think doctors would work more hours on less money if they couldn’t operate privately? Of course not, they would eventually move to do something else where they have the freedom to earn a living how they wish. Your whole theory is too simplistic and just doesn’t stack up to any scrutiny.

Yes waiting lists are due to underfunding but moonlighting doctors is also a factor.

NHS may receive payment but who pays for and trains doctors, nurses etc. Not private medicine.

Where did I say doctors should not be adequately rewarded for their NHS work?

Your whole supporting argument isn't simplistic it is nonsense.

I am sorry you feel my argument is nonsense. I just believe in freedom and choice. You seem to take the view that unless everyone can afford it then it should be banned. What a frightening thought.

The view is everyone should be entitled to decent health care, not just the wealthy.

[DrWindy]

Let’s ban attending matches at Brisbane Road. If everyone can’t afford a ticket, then nobody should go.

[DrWindy]

Yes waiting lists are due to underfunding but moonlighting doctors is also a factor.

NHS may receive payment but who pays for and trains doctors, nurses etc. Not private medicine.

Where did I say doctors should not be adequately rewarded for their NHS work?

Your whole supporting argument isn't simplistic it is nonsense.

I am sorry you feel my argument is nonsense. I just believe in freedom and choice. You seem to take the view that unless everyone can afford it then it should be banned. What a frightening thought.

The view is everyone should be entitled to decent health care, not just the wealthy.

I agree with that view. This gentleman believes private healthcare should be banned. That’s not the same.

[Hoover Attack]

But you have to take away the private alternative to ensure the nhs offering is improved to the level we both appear to want for everyone.

[RedDwarf 1881]

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/ ... -dangerous

Putin and Trump love him.
But why would any ordinary British citizen just trying to have a decent, peaceful and secure life vote for him?
For starters: he supports privatised health care (meaning it's for profit).

Wasn't it Tony Blair that first started bringing in private companies into the NHS . Trump likes Farage but I don't know about Putin . I've never heard him say anything about Farage . As for the Ukraine war I can't see Ukraine ever getting back Crimea or the Donbas . No way will Putin accept losing so in the end I can see him using tactical nukes . If the West directly responds militarily then it's WW3 . I was hoping Ukraine would win this war but that now seems unlikely .This war simply can't carry on so a peace deal needs to be struck . The alternative to peace talks is to see thousands more lose their lives with the prospect of Russia gaining even more territory.

[Long slender neck]

Farage couldn't be bothered to attend the husting event that all Clacton candidates were attending. I have had a total of 6 Reform leaflets put through my door, 2 Tory and 1 each from Labour and the Lib Dems. He will be my MP. So proud.

Sorry to hear you live in Clacton.

[Dunners]

But you have to take away the private alternative to ensure the nhs offering is improved to the level we both appear to want for everyone.

Now do you see? Brutality is the only other way.

[The Mindsweep]

Farage couldn't be bothered to attend the husting event that all Clacton candidates were attending. I have had a total of 6 Reform leaflets put through my door, 2 Tory and 1 each from Labour and the Lib Dems. He will be my MP. So proud.

Sorry to hear you live in Clacton.

I don't, I live in a village on outskirts of Colchester, boundary changes has put me in Clacton for some reason. Can't remember the last time I went there.

[StillSpike]

I am sorry you feel my argument is nonsense. I just believe in freedom and choice. You seem to take the view that unless everyone can afford it then it should be banned. What a frightening thought.

The problem is that no-one "chooses" to be in need of medical treatment. People choose whether they want to go to a football match, so it's fine to apply a market and a price to satisfying that "want" - if the price is too high for them, then they can decide to forego the match.

If you allow private - for profit - provision, then by definition you're saying that some people are more worthy of receiving medical care than others - any many people would consider that wrong.

That the NHS is underfunded is absolutely clear - a big part of the reason for that underfunding is that so much money is drained out of the system by PFI deals (I wonder what the "P" stands for?) - started under the Tories but lovingly embraced by the Bliar administration. I also believe - but happy to proven wrong - that the money appropriated by Baroness Mone and her ilk has also hit the NHS budget. If ALL the public money poured into the NHS went towards the treatment of patients and the provision of the ancillary services required, rather that being siphoned out to private company profits, I suspect the provision would be significantly better.

Edited to add - I include other outsourced provision in the above - cleaning, catering and other ancillary services drain a lot more out of the system that ends up in profits for Serco, Compass, etc etc

[StillSpike]

In answer to the original question - Farage is on the side of himself, and those who fund him. Certainly not the side of you and me.

[Hoover Attack]

But you have to take away the private alternative to ensure the nhs offering is improved to the level we both appear to want for everyone.

Now do you see? Brutality is the only other way.

We have differing definitions of brutality.

[DrWindy]

I am sorry you feel my argument is nonsense. I just believe in freedom and choice. You seem to take the view that unless everyone can afford it then it should be banned. What a frightening thought.

The problem is that no-one "chooses" to be in need of medical treatment. People choose whether they want to go to a football match, so it's fine to apply a market and a price to satisfying that "want" - if the price is too high for them, then they can decide to forego the match.

If you allow private - for profit - provision, then by definition you're saying that some people are more worthy of receiving medical care than others - any many people would consider that wrong.

That the NHS is underfunded is absolutely clear - a big part of the reason for that underfunding is that so much money is drained out of the system by PFI deals (I wonder what the "P" stands for?) - started under the Tories but lovingly embraced by the Bliar administration. I also believe - but happy to proven wrong - that the money appropriated by Baroness Mone and her ilk has also hit the NHS budget. If ALL the public money poured into the NHS went towards the treatment of patients and the provision of the ancillary services required, rather that being siphoned out to private company profits, I suspect the provision would be significantly better.

Edited to add - I include other outsourced provision in the above - cleaning, catering and other ancillary services drain a lot more out of the system that ends up in profits for Serco, Compass, etc etc

I do agree with much of what you say. However I think that is more to do with the mismanagement of the NHS rather than providing someone with the choice of private health care. I am a big believer in the NHS and it certainly should be there for everyone. However just because multiple governments have messed the NHS up doesn’t necessarily align with the fact private healthcare should be banned. If a person wishes to go and see a doctor, surgeon or dentist then they should have that right. That doesn’t need to be at the detriment of anyone else.

[Max B Gold]

I am sorry you feel my argument is nonsense. I just believe in freedom and choice. You seem to take the view that unless everyone can afford it then it should be banned. What a frightening thought.

The problem is that no-one "chooses" to be in need of medical treatment. People choose whether they want to go to a football match, so it's fine to apply a market and a price to satisfying that "want" - if the price is too high for them, then they can decide to forego the match.

If you allow private - for profit - provision, then by definition you're saying that some people are more worthy of receiving medical care than others - any many people would consider that wrong.

That the NHS is underfunded is absolutely clear - a big part of the reason for that underfunding is that so much money is drained out of the system by PFI deals (I wonder what the "P" stands for?) - started under the Tories but lovingly embraced by the Bliar administration. I also believe - but happy to proven wrong - that the money appropriated by Baroness Mone and her ilk has also hit the NHS budget. If ALL the public money poured into the NHS went towards the treatment of patients and the provision of the ancillary services required, rather that being siphoned out to private company profits, I suspect the provision would be significantly better.

Edited to add - I include other outsourced provision in the above - cleaning, catering and other ancillary services drain a lot more out of the system that ends up in profits for Serco, Compass, etc etc

I do agree with much of what you say. However I think that is more to do with the mismanagement of the NHS rather than providing someone with the choice of private health care. I am a big believer in the NHS and it certainly should be there for everyone. However just because multiple governments have messed the NHS up doesn’t necessarily align with the fact private healthcare should be banned. If a person wishes to go and see a doctor, surgeon or dentist then they should have that right. That doesn’t need to be at the detriment of anyone else.

We can all have the "right" to see doctors etc but if that right is only exercisable by paying for it then it is worthless to those who cannot afford it. This is just another ideological leg to your freedom if choice nonsense argument.

[DrWindy]

The problem is that no-one "chooses" to be in need of medical treatment. People choose whether they want to go to a football match, so it's fine to apply a market and a price to satisfying that "want" - if the price is too high for them, then they can decide to forego the match.

If you allow private - for profit - provision, then by definition you're saying that some people are more worthy of receiving medical care than others - any many people would consider that wrong.

That the NHS is underfunded is absolutely clear - a big part of the reason for that underfunding is that so much money is drained out of the system by PFI deals (I wonder what the "P" stands for?) - started under the Tories but lovingly embraced by the Bliar administration. I also believe - but happy to proven wrong - that the money appropriated by Baroness Mone and her ilk has also hit the NHS budget. If ALL the public money poured into the NHS went towards the treatment of patients and the provision of the ancillary services required, rather that being siphoned out to private company profits, I suspect the provision would be significantly better.

Edited to add - I include other outsourced provision in the above - cleaning, catering and other ancillary services drain a lot more out of the system that ends up in profits for Serco, Compass, etc etc

I do agree with much of what you say. However I think that is more to do with the mismanagement of the NHS rather than providing someone with the choice of private health care. I am a big believer in the NHS and it certainly should be there for everyone. However just because multiple governments have messed the NHS up doesn’t necessarily align with the fact private healthcare should be banned. If a person wishes to go and see a doctor, surgeon or dentist then they should have that right. That doesn’t need to be at the detriment of anyone else.

We can all have the "right" to see doctors etc but if that right is only exercisable by paying for it then it is worthless to those who cannot afford it. This is just another ideological leg to your freedom if choice nonsense argument.

What you and I choose to spend our money on should be down to you and I. We all deserve equal opportunity. Banning things isn’t and never will be the answer.

[Hoover Attack]

If a person wishes to go and see a doctor, surgeon or dentist then they should have that right. That doesn’t need to be at the detriment of anyone else.

But it is to the detriment of everyone else.

This is the link you can't or are choosing not to understand.

[Hoover Attack]

What you and I choose to spend our money on should be down to you and I.

Not when it impacts others.

[Hoover Attack]

We all deserve equal opportunity.

But there isn't equal opportunity to access private healthcare for those not wealthy enough.

[Max B Gold]

I do agree with much of what you say. However I think that is more to do with the mismanagement of the NHS rather than providing someone with the choice of private health care. I am a big believer in the NHS and it certainly should be there for everyone. However just because multiple governments have messed the NHS up doesn’t necessarily align with the fact private healthcare should be banned. If a person wishes to go and see a doctor, surgeon or dentist then they should have that right. That doesn’t need to be at the detriment of anyone else.

We can all have the "right" to see doctors etc but if that right is only exercisable by paying for it then it is worthless to those who cannot afford it. This is just another ideological leg to your freedom if choice nonsense argument.

What you and I choose to spend our money on should be down to you and I. We all deserve equal opportunity. Banning things isn’t and never will be the answer.

Yes but the point is nobody should have to pay to access the medical care they need and jump the queue just because they have the spare cash. Its not about being free to choose where to spend money you don't have

Squeezing them out of existence because you make the NHS deliver premium healthcare is the answer. Where did I say ban?

[DrWindy]

If a person wishes to go and see a doctor, surgeon or dentist then they should have that right. That doesn’t need to be at the detriment of anyone else.

But it is to the detriment of everyone else.

This is the link you can't or are choosing not to understand.

It isn’t. That’s what you are choosing not to understand.

Everyone is entitled to have a roof over their head should they want to. By the logic being shown everyone who has their own home shouldn’t unless everyone else can. It’s a nonsense.

The NHS is mismanaged but it’s not because doctors take private patients.

[StillSpike]

What you and I choose to spend our money on should be down to you and I. We all deserve equal opportunity. Banning things isn’t and never will be the answer.

Again - you're introducing a element of choice here. Whether one needs medical treatment isn't an issue of choice, is it?