Save our Landlords

[Hoover Attack]

Because the link between rents and earnings has now gone beyond breaking point.

Many BTL'ers have been caught out be interest rate increases, maintenance costs and loss of tax incentives. It's just no longer viable as an investment.

As a landlord of 2 properties, I can say that the biggest issue has been the removal of the tax allowance on mortgage interest payments.

I am now committed to getting out of this business as are many others landlords. Its the result of unintended consequences and people who have to rent are suffering through lack of properties and higher rents.

Business.

[BiggsyMalone]

Because the link between rents and earnings has now gone beyond breaking point.

Many BTL'ers have been caught out be interest rate increases, maintenance costs and loss of tax incentives. It's just no longer viable as an investment.

As a landlord of 2 properties, I can say that the biggest issue has been the removal of the tax allowance on mortgage interest payments.

I am now committed to getting out of this business as are many others landlords. Its the result of unintended consequences and people who have to rent are suffering through lack of properties and higher rents.

Renting properties isn’t a business. Its greed.

[Max B Gold]

Because the link between rents and earnings has now gone beyond breaking point.

Many BTL'ers have been caught out be interest rate increases, maintenance costs and loss of tax incentives. It's just no longer viable as an investment.

As a landlord of 2 properties, I can say that the biggest issue has been the removal of the tax allowance on mortgage interest payments.

I am now committed to getting out of this business as are many others landlords. Its the result of unintended consequences and people who have to rent are suffering through lack of properties and higher rents.

Renting properties isn’t a business. Its greed.

And exploitation.

[PKM]

I rent out a property and it isn’t greed or exploitation.
The property was in our family. We rented it out at a very reasonable rent, saying it was only for the ‘short term’.
That was four years ago. We are now going to be selling the property as the hassle involved with it is just not worth it.
Worse, because we accepted a DSS tenant, the council won’t even look at them till they’ve got an eviction notice.
So we have to do that, at a cost of £1500.
I understand the need to protect tenants, ensure the property is safe etc etc, but I didn’t realise that unless every T was crossed and i dotted you might not get your property back in a timely manner. Eg, when exactly did you give the tenant the Gas Certificate and have you proof of the same? Like from 4 years ago and every subsequent year.
We can put the money in the building society and have none of the hassle and recourse to the capital at any time.
We certainly won’t be renting out again, it’s a nightmare of red tape.

[Dunners]

Because the link between rents and earnings has now gone beyond breaking point.

Many BTL'ers have been caught out be interest rate increases, maintenance costs and loss of tax incentives. It's just no longer viable as an investment.

Rent money is no longer covering their costs?

Not if you have a mortgage too. I'm actually at The Property Institute annual seminar as I type, and the latest data is the residential operating and maintenance costs are tracking an inflation rate way above CPI. As of April 2024 it was at 24%!

[Dunners]

As an investment model, BTL was always reliant on low interest rates and continued rental growth. Many BTL landlords were working on pretty tight margins to start with.

Correct. It only work if the base rate doesn't begin with a number higher than 3.

[BiggsyMalone]

I rent out a property and it isn’t greed or exploitation.
The property was in our family. We rented it out at a very reasonable rent, saying it was only for the ‘short term’.
That was four years ago. We are now going to be selling the property as the hassle involved with it is just not worth it.
Worse, because we accepted a DSS tenant, the council won’t even look at them till they’ve got an eviction notice.
So we have to do that, at a cost of £1500.
I understand the need to protect tenants, ensure the property is safe etc etc, but I didn’t realise that unless every T was crossed and i dotted you might not get your property back in a timely manner. Eg, when exactly did you give the tenant the Gas Certificate and have you proof of the same? Like from 4 years ago and every subsequent year.
We can put the money in the building society and have none of the hassle and recourse to the capital at any time.
We certainly won’t be renting out again, it’s a nightmare of red tape.

Define ‘reasonable rent’.

You were given a property and chose to make a second income from it, rather than selling it and letting someone get on the housing ladder.

[Currywurst and Chips]

The accountants have come out HARD against tax breaks in this thread

[OyinbO]

And what about the house they used to live in?

Landlords selling up doesn't reduce the housing stock.

Just as their frequent claim that they are "providing housing" is complete poo poo - the property was there before they bought it, and it will be there after they sell it.

Borrowing other people's money, and using the labour of other people to pay off the debt. It brings precious little value to society whatsoever.

I'd say it brings no value, and could easily be argued it brings harm to society and is a negative.

Fundamentally, I agree. But we do need a rental sector in this country - it's just that it's way too large at the moment because most of the people in it would actually rather not be. And landlordism is one of the chief blockers. Frankly I find it difficult to accept any complaints from the rent-seekers, as they've had a very good few years and would probably best to quietly take their ill-gotten capital gains and shove off.

[DuvB]

Just as their frequent claim that they are "providing housing" is complete poo poo - the property was there before they bought it, and it will be there after they sell it.

Borrowing other people's money, and using the labour of other people to pay off the debt. It brings precious little value to society whatsoever.

I'd say it brings no value, and could easily be argued it brings harm to society and is a negative.

Fundamentally, I agree. But we do need a rental sector in this country - it's just that it's way too large at the moment because most of the people in it would actually rather not be. And landlordism is one of the chief blockers. Frankly I find it difficult to accept any complaints from the rent-seekers, as they've had a very good few years and would probably best to quietly take their ill-gotten capital gains and shove off.

You live in a fantasy world. Try Russia instead.

[o-no]

Having a decent supply of rental properties is essential though, but we need decent landlords too. O-no Jr has a room in a house with 4 others. If the landlord sells up that's 5 of them looking for affordable alternatives, it reduces the housing stock available for rental. He's 23 and doesn't earn a ton of money, renting is his only option.

[Hoover Attack]

Having a decent supply of rental properties is essential though, but we need decent landlords too. O-no Jr has a room in a house with 4 others. If the landlord sells up that's 5 of them looking for affordable alternatives, it reduces the housing stock available for rental. He's 23 and doesn't earn a ton of money, renting is his only option.

So when the landlord sells up, where does the house disappear to ?

The housing stock doesn’t change

[OyinbO]

I'd say it brings no value, and could easily be argued it brings harm to society and is a negative.

Fundamentally, I agree. But we do need a rental sector in this country - it's just that it's way too large at the moment because most of the people in it would actually rather not be. And landlordism is one of the chief blockers. Frankly I find it difficult to accept any complaints from the rent-seekers, as they've had a very good few years and would probably best to quietly take their ill-gotten capital gains and shove off.

You live in a fantasy world. Try Russia instead.

Very odd response given I was recommending a course of action you'd already admitted to taking.

[Max B Gold]

In other news. The Scotch Parliament voted yesterday to declare a housing emergency. I expect nothing will happen but at least they tried.

[o-no]

Having a decent supply of rental properties is essential though, but we need decent landlords too. O-no Jr has a room in a house with 4 others. If the landlord sells up that's 5 of them looking for affordable alternatives, it reduces the housing stock available for rental. He's 23 and doesn't earn a ton of money, renting is his only option.

So when the landlord sells up, where does the house disappear to ?

The housing stock doesn’t change

the housing stock available for rental

[PKM]

I rent out a property and it isn’t greed or exploitation.
The property was in our family. We rented it out at a very reasonable rent, saying it was only for the ‘short term’.
That was four years ago. We are now going to be selling the property as the hassle involved with it is just not worth it.
Worse, because we accepted a DSS tenant, the council won’t even look at them till they’ve got an eviction notice.
So we have to do that, at a cost of £1500.
I understand the need to protect tenants, ensure the property is safe etc etc, but I didn’t realise that unless every T was crossed and i dotted you might not get your property back in a timely manner. Eg, when exactly did you give the tenant the Gas Certificate and have you proof of the same? Like from 4 years ago and every subsequent year.
We can put the money in the building society and have none of the hassle and recourse to the capital at any time.
We certainly won’t be renting out again, it’s a nightmare of red tape.

Define ‘reasonable rent’.

You were given a property and chose to make a second income from it, rather than selling it and letting someone get on the housing ladder.

We weren’t ’given’ a property, it was paid for and used by family members.
We rented as we weren’t sure what we wanted to do with it.
Re ‘reasonable rent’, current market rate for our type of property is £1100-£1300 a month.
We charged £850 4 years ago and even now it’s only £925, some of which our tenant doesn’t pay us!
Our tenant can only rent, doesn’t have the resources to buy so we are certainly not stopping them from getting on the housing ladder.

[Hoover Attack]

I rent out a property and it isn’t greed or exploitation.
The property was in our family. We rented it out at a very reasonable rent, saying it was only for the ‘short term’.
That was four years ago. We are now going to be selling the property as the hassle involved with it is just not worth it.
Worse, because we accepted a DSS tenant, the council won’t even look at them till they’ve got an eviction notice.
So we have to do that, at a cost of £1500.
I understand the need to protect tenants, ensure the property is safe etc etc, but I didn’t realise that unless every T was crossed and i dotted you might not get your property back in a timely manner. Eg, when exactly did you give the tenant the Gas Certificate and have you proof of the same? Like from 4 years ago and every subsequent year.
We can put the money in the building society and have none of the hassle and recourse to the capital at any time.
We certainly won’t be renting out again, it’s a nightmare of red tape.

Define ‘reasonable rent’.

You were given a property and chose to make a second income from it, rather than selling it and letting someone get on the housing ladder.

We weren’t ’given’ a property, it was paid for and used by family members.
We rented as we weren’t sure what we wanted to do with it.
Re ‘reasonable rent’, current market rate for our type of property is £1100-£1300 a month.
We charged £850 4 years ago and even now it’s only £925, some of which our tenant doesn’t pay us!
Our tenant can only rent, doesn’t have the resources to buy so we are certainly not stopping them from getting on the housing ladder.

You and other landlords are driving up prices so yes, you are stopping them from getting on the housing ladder by making prices artificially high.

[Hoover Attack]

Having a decent supply of rental properties is essential though, but we need decent landlords too. O-no Jr has a room in a house with 4 others. If the landlord sells up that's 5 of them looking for affordable alternatives, it reduces the housing stock available for rental. He's 23 and doesn't earn a ton of money, renting is his only option.

So when the landlord sells up, where does the house disappear to ?

The housing stock doesn’t change

the housing stock available for rental

But there's still the same number of people needing a home and the same number of houses.

A landlord throwing his toys out of his pram and selling up doesn't change that balance.

[Max B Gold]

I rent out a property and it isn’t greed or exploitation.
The property was in our family. We rented it out at a very reasonable rent, saying it was only for the ‘short term’.
That was four years ago. We are now going to be selling the property as the hassle involved with it is just not worth it.
Worse, because we accepted a DSS tenant, the council won’t even look at them till they’ve got an eviction notice.
So we have to do that, at a cost of £1500.
I understand the need to protect tenants, ensure the property is safe etc etc, but I didn’t realise that unless every T was crossed and i dotted you might not get your property back in a timely manner. Eg, when exactly did you give the tenant the Gas Certificate and have you proof of the same? Like from 4 years ago and every subsequent year.
We can put the money in the building society and have none of the hassle and recourse to the capital at any time.
We certainly won’t be renting out again, it’s a nightmare of red tape.

Define ‘reasonable rent’.

You were given a property and chose to make a second income from it, rather than selling it and letting someone get on the housing ladder.

We weren’t ’given’ a property, it was paid for and used by family members.
We rented as we weren’t sure what we wanted to do with it.
Re ‘reasonable rent’, current market rate for our type of property is £1100-£1300 a month.
We charged £850 4 years ago and even now it’s only £925, some of which our tenant doesn’t pay us!
Our tenant can only rent, doesn’t have the resources to buy so we are certainly not stopping them from getting on the housing ladder.

If you don't know what to do with the house and you obviously don't need it. Why not treat the rent receipts as part purchase of the property. So that at some future stage the tenant owns the house.

[o-no]

So when the landlord sells up, where does the house disappear to ?

The housing stock doesn’t change

the housing stock available for rental

But there's still the same number of people needing a home and the same number of houses.

A landlord throwing his toys out of his pram and selling up doesn't change that balance.

I think you're wilfully misunderstanding.

Clearly if a landlord sells up there are still the same number of actual buildings, but if that building is no longer available to rent then the supply of rentable properties has dropped.

[Hoover Attack]

I think you're wilfully misunderstanding.

Clearly if a landlord sells up there are still the same number of actual buildings, but if that building is no longer available to rent then the supply of rentable properties has dropped.

I think you're wilfully misunderstanding.

The number of people and number of properties hasn't changed. Therefore, no one should be made homeless by the landlord having a hissy fit and exiting the 'business.

Unless you think the person the landlord sells to is keeping it vacant?

[Long slender neck]

What are you alluding to? That homelessness doesnt exist?

[o-no]

I think you're wilfully misunderstanding.

Clearly if a landlord sells up there are still the same number of actual buildings, but if that building is no longer available to rent then the supply of rentable properties has dropped.

I think you're wilfully misunderstanding.

The number of people and number of properties hasn't changed. Therefore, no one should be made homeless by the landlord having a hissy fit and exiting the 'business.

Unless you think the person the landlord sells to is keeping it vacant?

So ok, if o-no Jr's landlord sells up and the property isn't re-rented - maybe someone buys it to live in - then there is one less property available to rent and 5 people looking for somewhere to rent. The balance has changed.

Unless you are simply arguing that despite any of that, there are still the same number of people and physical buildings in the country - which is not really at issue.

[Hoover Attack]

What are you alluding to? That homelessness doesnt exist?

Eh? Of course homelessness exists - see your mum example above, living in the park.

[Hoover Attack]

So ok, if o-no Jr's landlord sells up and the property isn't re-rented - maybe someone buys it to live in - then there is one less property available to rent and 5 people looking for somewhere to rent. The balance has changed.

But the person who buys it to live in has left somewhere behind. O-no jnr and co can go and live in that house.

The numbers don't change.