Independent Leyton Orient Forum

“I get complaints by some my other American owners, that we spend too much on players”

Look behind the scenes at some of these bellends that parade around the pitch lapping up the applause.

It’s true though, how much was Piggot on per week?

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:20 am Travis talks a lot of bollocks sometimes.

Seems to be happening more often.

If we're to keep progressing, then the next set of challenges for the Club are an order or magnitude greater than what's happened over the last 7 seasons, because they require the significant expansion of our fanbase, and a whole new infrastructure. That's going to require a lot of new money *and* competence, and there's no guarantee that any new moneybags Septic will have both. Worst case scenario we end up with another chancer like Parry who has neither.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:33 am
Look behind the scenes at some of these bellends that parade around the pitch lapping up the applause.

THEY WERE CLAPPING US!

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:33 am “I get complaints by some my other American owners, that we spend too much on players”

Look behind the scenes at some of these bellends that parade around the pitch lapping up the applause.

As long as there are football fans prepared to genuflect to anyone with a credit rating, there will be bellends lining up to take the applause.

OyinbO wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:48 am

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:20 am Travis talks a lot of bollocks sometimes.

Seems to be happening more often.

If we're to keep progressing, then the next set of challenges for the Club are an order or magnitude greater than what's happened over the last 7 seasons, because they require the significant expansion of our fanbase, and a whole new infrastructure. That's going to require a lot of new money *and* competence, and there's no guarantee that any new moneybags Septic will have both. Worst case scenario we end up with another chancer like Parry who has neither.

To get to the Championship and stay there we need a bigger stadium but as Nigel said that's about ten years away . If we somehow managed to get promotion before then it would be a challenge and a half for the club to stay there , on and off the pitch . However I look at clubs like Luton and Bournemouth with ' stadiums that are not much bigger than our's and they've managed to it .Edit , Just to add I couldn't be happier Nigel is our Chairman . I think he's a top bloke and thank you sweet Jesus he's the polar opposite to the previous nightmare

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 9:27 am There's a consistent theme across American investment in British sport where they think we massively underpay for the 'product' compared to what they can charge in the states and could be fleeced for much more. There's a reason so many dollars are pouring into English football at the moment, the exchange rate has become very favourable to yanks and they smell an opportunity to make a lot of money out of a league they think is still commercially underperforming compared to what it could be.

I think Travis and Teague broadly 'get' the club, but the other owners are almost certainly going to be a lot more hard headed about getting an eventual return on investment and minimizing losses in the meantime. Think that tension will probably be easy ish to ignore until the question of a new ground really comes to a head. That's going to be an incredible amount of their money gambled on the chance that it takes us up a level and makes us more attractive to sell, or more capable of a tilt at the prem in the distant future.

Good post.

Hate the complete commercialisation of everything, to the extreme, in the US. At a baseball stadium you’d struggle to get a beer for under about $15. It’s insane and shouldn’t be a model for this country. But with more yank investment, it will be before long

OyinbO wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:48 am

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:20 am Travis talks a lot of bollocks sometimes.

Seems to be happening more often.

If we're to keep progressing, then the next set of challenges for the Club are an order or magnitude greater than what's happened over the last 7 seasons, because they require the significant expansion of our fanbase, and a whole new infrastructure. That's going to require a lot of new money *and* competence, and there's no guarantee that any new moneybags Septic will have both. Worst case scenario we end up with another chancer like Parry who has neither.

I think their pitch is going to have be centred on the idea that a new ground would be tied in with a massive housing development. As far as I know, that isn't an area of expertise our current ownership have, which is obviously why Devlin was brought in, as he was chief executive at Brentford when they bought the land off of the developer that had previously owned where their new ground is. He will be working up a proposal based on a similar model.

The politics side of it is vital as well as you're essentially going to be asking a council to deviate from their existing housing site allocations and plans. If you look at what Waltham Forest have just announced their long term plan for Leyton Mills is (which is our last real shot at staying in the area), it's heavily housing focussed.

Appreciate the owners aren't going to be talking a lot of details this early on, but I imagine any money coming in will be looking at
primarily a return from a residential tie in to our new ground, not from the club operations itself - though the chance of us hitting the jackpot sweetens the deal a little and might mean borrowing at a lower rate IF a new ground is financed largely through private or pe funding.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:37 am

OyinbO wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:48 am

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:20 am Travis talks a lot of bollocks sometimes.

Seems to be happening more often.

If we're to keep progressing, then the next set of challenges for the Club are an order or magnitude greater than what's happened over the last 7 seasons, because they require the significant expansion of our fanbase, and a whole new infrastructure. That's going to require a lot of new money *and* competence, and there's no guarantee that any new moneybags Septic will have both. Worst case scenario we end up with another chancer like Parry who has neither.

I think their pitch is going to have be centred on the idea that a new ground would be tied in with a massive housing development. As far as I know, that isn't an area of expertise our current ownership have, which is obviously why Devlin was brought in, as he was chief executive at Brentford when they bought the land off of the developer that had previously owned where their new ground is. He will be working up a proposal based on a similar model.

The politics side of it is vital as well as you're essentially going to be asking a council to deviate from their existing housing site allocations and plans. If you look at what Waltham Forest have just announced their long term plan for Leyton Mills is (which is our last real shot at staying in the area), it's heavily housing focussed.

Appreciate the owners aren't going to be talking a lot of details this early on, but I imagine any money coming in will be looking at
primarily a return from a residential tie in to our new ground, not from the club operations itself.

That's basically right. The two are effectively inseparable. Even if there are different business entities behind each bit, the money will all be interdependent.

The council won't be deviating that much though - it's easy to make the case in the current environment that a stadium with a reliable anchor tenant / occupant will be a boon to the area, and the current plans are sufficiently vague as to allow room for it. And don't forget that if we move then the current site becomes available for development too.

The bigger issue is that it's very difficult to get new development moving at the moment, with interest rates at normal levels and land/property prices still ridiculously high, there isn't a massive queue of buyers for new stuff.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:21 am

OyinbO wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:48 am

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:20 am Travis talks a lot of bollocks sometimes.

Seems to be happening more often.

If we're to keep progressing, then the next set of challenges for the Club are an order or magnitude greater than what's happened over the last 7 seasons, because they require the significant expansion of our fanbase, and a whole new infrastructure. That's going to require a lot of new money *and* competence, and there's no guarantee that any new moneybags Septic will have both. Worst case scenario we end up with another chancer like Parry who has neither.

To get to the Championship and stay there we need a bigger stadium but as Nigel said that's about ten years away . If we somehow managed to get promotion before then it would be a challenge and a half for the club to stay there , on and off the pitch . However I look at clubs like Luton and Bournemouth with ' stadiums that are not much bigger than our's and they've managed to it .Edit , Just to add I couldn't be happier Nigel is our Chairman . I think he's a top bloke and thank you sweet Jesus he's the polar opposite to the previous nightmare

Good post,there’s pro and cons about going up to the championship,the way I see it is,what’s the point of a football club if not to get to the highest point you can, every year most O’s fans look down instead of up,even last year after about 6 games people were speculating if we would stay up or not, it’s very difficult to tread water in any division and keep finishing mid table. Sod it let’s go for it even if it’s one season. I think we have the foundation of a good team and with a few quality acquisitions and getting them early there’s no reason why we can’t do it. I bet Luton supporters have enjoyed this season even though they got relegated.

There’s a bigger question around all of this as to what the fan base is willing to put up with in order to see us gain more success.

Leaving our current ground with lots of history/memories
Match day ticket prices in the £40-50 range, if not more. With season tickets approach the £1000 mark.
A beer and a burger in the ground costing £20.

All to be playing Plymouth and Coventry in the championship…

Just a foot note to my earlier post, haven’t Luton been given a £100 million just for one season , and isn’t that helping to fund a new ground?

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:47 am There’s a bigger question around all of this as to what the fan base is willing to put up with in order to see us gain more success.

Leaving our current ground with lots of history/memories
Match day ticket prices in the £40-50 range, if not more. With season tickets approach the £1000 mark.
A beer and a burger in the ground costing £20.

All to be playing Plymouth and Coventry in the championship…

Its a difficult one. Brentford and Brighton supporting friends are having an absolute blast, but it's been done off the back of a single lifelong fans mega brains in both instances. It's meant they've been able to essentially game the transfer market to such an extent that there hasn't been a corresponding fleecing of fans as they've risen up the league, and have had their grounds essentially financed privately.

Any growth plans for us are going to be based on a much more hard headed calculus by men who, frankly, aren't going to be as smart at the football stuff. If we keep growing, it's going to be through more conventional business smarts, which would mean getting more money out of a growing fan base.

This is probably our best shot of getting out of the little Leyton Orient category that Hearn boxed us into by hemming in Brisbane Road. Could be exciting but also potentially a massive risk. My general impression so far is that the ownership we have at the moment are well intentioned and well resourced for the lower leagues, but haven't figured out what punching above our weight looks like on the pitch.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:01 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:47 am There’s a bigger question around all of this as to what the fan base is willing to put up with in order to see us gain more success.

Leaving our current ground with lots of history/memories
Match day ticket prices in the £40-50 range, if not more. With season tickets approach the £1000 mark.
A beer and a burger in the ground costing £20.

All to be playing Plymouth and Coventry in the championship…

Its a difficult one. Brentford and Brighton supporting friends are having an absolute blast, but it's been done off the back of a single lifelong fans mega brains in both instances. It's meant they've been able to essentially game the transfer market to such an extent that there hasn't been a corresponding fleecing of fans as they've risen up the league, and have had their grounds essentially financed privately.

Any growth plans for us are going to be based on a much more hard headed calculus by men who, frankly, aren't going to be as smart at the football stuff. If we keep growing, it's going to be through more conventional business smarts, which would mean getting more money out of a growing fan base.

This is probably our best shot of getting out of the little Leyton Orient category that Hearn boxed us into by hemming in Brisbane Road. Could be exciting but also potentially a massive risk. My general impression so far is that the ownership we have at the moment are well intentioned and well resourced for the lower leagues, but haven't figured out what punching above our weight looks like on the pitch.

Interesting.
Agree with the last paragraph. It will also rely on some potentially harsh appraisals and decisions on our staff and whether their skill matches our ambition. As you say, have we got the right people you need to grow a smallish club to a decent championship/chance of prem team?

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:47 am There’s a bigger question around all of this as to what the fan base is willing to put up with in order to see us gain more success.

Leaving our current ground with lots of history/memories
Match day ticket prices in the £40-50 range, if not more. With season tickets approach the £1000 mark.
A beer and a burger in the ground costing £20.

All to be playing Plymouth and Coventry in the championship…

If we want to see Orient play in the Championship I suppose we're going to have to pay for it . It's just the way of the world . Either that or we're always destined to stay " Little old Leyton Orient "

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:01 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:47 am There’s a bigger question around all of this as to what the fan base is willing to put up with in order to see us gain more success.

Leaving our current ground with lots of history/memories
Match day ticket prices in the £40-50 range, if not more. With season tickets approach the £1000 mark.
A beer and a burger in the ground costing £20.

All to be playing Plymouth and Coventry in the championship…

Its a difficult one. Brentford and Brighton supporting friends are having an absolute blast, but it's been done off the back of a single lifelong fans mega brains in both instances. It's meant they've been able to essentially game the transfer market to such an extent that there hasn't been a corresponding fleecing of fans as they've risen up the league, and have had their grounds essentially financed privately.

Any growth plans for us are going to be based on a much more hard headed calculus by men who, frankly, aren't going to be as smart at the football stuff. If we keep growing, it's going to be through more conventional business smarts, which would mean getting more money out of a growing fan base.

This is probably our best shot of getting out of the little Leyton Orient category that Hearn boxed us into by hemming in Brisbane Road. Could be exciting but also potentially a massive risk. My general impression so far is that the ownership we have at the moment are well intentioned and well resourced for the lower leagues, but haven't figured out what punching above our weight looks like on the pitch.

So, what you're saying is - we need an incredibly bright, deeply and genuinely committed Orient fan? Not sure I've ever seen those two qualities embodied in the same person.

These investors make their money by investing in poorly performing companies, building them up and selling them on at a profit.

The club with this ownership will not be building a new staidum. There’s nothing sustainable about the club being loaded with £80m of debt building a stadium that will never be full with this current model. They will get a site and building permission, then punt the club off.

Until we get some seriously rich people investing in the club, this will always be the way it is.

Agree, seriously rich people much needed, especially if they’re a nutty Italian bloke

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:20 pm These investors make their money by investing in poorly performing companies, building them up and selling them on at a profit.

which ones are you talking about here?

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:55 pm Thought The Lo Down were no more

Always enjoyed it more than Outlook and Gilso’s show

Can't beat the Outlook!

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:06 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:47 am There’s a bigger question around all of this as to what the fan base is willing to put up with in order to see us gain more success.

Leaving our current ground with lots of history/memories
Match day ticket prices in the £40-50 range, if not more. With season tickets approach the £1000 mark.
A beer and a burger in the ground costing £20.

All to be playing Plymouth and Coventry in the championship…

If we want to see Orient play in the Championship I suppose we're going to have to pay for it . It's just the way of the world . Either that or we're always destined to stay " Little old Leyton Orient "

Not necessarily. Depends why you go I suppose.

OyinbO wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:44 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:37 am

OyinbO wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:48 am

Seems to be happening more often.

If we're to keep progressing, then the next set of challenges for the Club are an order or magnitude greater than what's happened over the last 7 seasons, because they require the significant expansion of our fanbase, and a whole new infrastructure. That's going to require a lot of new money *and* competence, and there's no guarantee that any new moneybags Septic will have both. Worst case scenario we end up with another chancer like Parry who has neither.

I think their pitch is going to have be centred on the idea that a new ground would be tied in with a massive housing development. As far as I know, that isn't an area of expertise our current ownership have, which is obviously why Devlin was brought in, as he was chief executive at Brentford when they bought the land off of the developer that had previously owned where their new ground is. He will be working up a proposal based on a similar model.

The politics side of it is vital as well as you're essentially going to be asking a council to deviate from their existing housing site allocations and plans. If you look at what Waltham Forest have just announced their long term plan for Leyton Mills is (which is our last real shot at staying in the area), it's heavily housing focussed.

Appreciate the owners aren't going to be talking a lot of details this early on, but I imagine any money coming in will be looking at
primarily a return from a residential tie in to our new ground, not from the club operations itself.

That's basically right. The two are effectively inseparable. Even if there are different business entities behind each bit, the money will all be interdependent.

The council won't be deviating that much though - it's easy to make the case in the current environment that a stadium with a reliable anchor tenant / occupant will be a boon to the area, and the current plans are sufficiently vague as to allow room for it. And don't forget that if we move then the current site becomes available for development too.

The bigger issue is that it's very difficult to get new development moving at the moment, with interest rates at normal levels and land/property prices still ridiculously high, there isn't a massive queue of buyers for new stuff.

Hearn didn't have any problem getting the council to 'deviate'?
He even got a road closed to accommodate all of his flat building on our football ground.

OyinbO wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:37 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:20 pm These investors make their money by investing in poorly performing companies, building them up and selling them on at a profit.

which ones are you talking about here?

Kent and Parry specifically. I believe Semaca too. Not sure about the others.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:29 pm Agree, seriously rich people much needed, especially if they’re a nutty Italian bloke

He wasn’t seriously rich. You can be as facetious as you want but if you want promotion and to stay there, you need people with a lot more money than Orient currently has.

CEB wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 9:08 am Apparently he said that in Boston you can’t see any entertainment for under 200 dollars, as a kind of “therefore chill your mittens about price rises, c***s, you don’t know you’re born”

According to my source who lives in Boston just to park the car for a Patriots match would set you back $60. Of course there is no other way of getting there.