Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I read a great quote from somebody yesterday. “The lessons from history is we don’t learn the lessons from history “. In my opinion sooner or later there’s going to be a world war. The only question is when , where and how it’s ignited. It just seems to me people simply can’t live together in peace and harmony. It never has been the case and never will be. I bet that after the next war there won’t be a load of old farts left to sign pieces of paper in a train carriage

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:09 am I read a great quote from somebody yesterday. “The lessons from history is we don’t learn the lessons from history “. In my opinion sooner or later there’s going to be a world war. The only question is when , where and how it’s ignited

Are you wearing you General’s hat sitting in your armchair with cat on lap?

Daily Express bot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:14 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:09 am I read a great quote from somebody yesterday. “The lessons from history is we don’t learn the lessons from history “. In my opinion sooner or later there’s going to be a world war. The only question is when , where and how it’s ignited

Are you wearing you General’s hat sitting in your armchair with cat on lap?

Just my opinion old chap. You only need to look at the daily news to know we’re heading for some severe trouble

What counts as a world war? Nuclear weapons seem to be functioning to make all out war between superpowers out of the question, so we essentially have proxy wars, awe have struggles for soft power, and we have warfare carried out digitally.
There’s a good argument, if you talk to people who work in cybersecurity, that we’re already in a world war if you rethink what the battlefield actually is

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:17 am What counts as a world war? Nuclear weapons seem to be functioning to make all out war between superpowers out of the question, so we essentially have proxy wars, awe have struggles for soft power, and we have warfare carried out digitally.
There’s a good argument, if you talk to people who work in cybersecurity, that we’re already in a world war if you rethink what the battlefield actually is

I agree and using nukes is unthinkable to anybody sane . However while they exist there is the potential that one day some nutter will use them

But that’s not the point you were making - the idea that a nutter might one day have access to and use them, is not the same as “we will have WW3 because we’ve learned nothing” - the world is currently not in a great place, absolutely, but it does seem that the world is currently organised in such a way that makes it unlikely that there’ll be open, all out war on a global scale

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:23 am
I agree and using nukes is unthinkable to anybody sane . However while they exist there is the potential that one day some nutter will use them

It's lucky we don't elevate nutters to positions of power where they have access to said nukes, isn't it.

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:17 am What counts as a world war? Nuclear weapons seem to be functioning to make all out war between superpowers out of the question, so we essentially have proxy wars, awe have struggles for soft power, and we have warfare carried out digitally.
There’s a good argument, if you talk to people who work in cybersecurity, that we’re already in a world war if you rethink what the battlefield actually is

Good question.

Firstly, I think we need to recognise that there's only one real superpower anymore, and that's the USA. China is in second place and is a close peer of the USA, but does not have the naval tonnage or political and economic reach to be a true global superpower in the same way. So it is a very strong regional power. Russia is a distant third place, and then everyone else (including the UK, France, Turkey and Japan) further behind still.

So, what we have is a patchwork of regional powers and one superpower. Similar to how the world operated before WW2. The historically normal state of affairs of competing regional powers is war. I think that sanctions, cyber attacks, proxy wars, trade barriers etc all count as low-level warfare between the main powers.

What I would consider as a "world war", as opposed to an almost permanent state of proxy conflict and low-level warfare, would be a full-on state of armed conflict between at least two sets of competing alliances. And this is what we seem to be inching towards.

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:36 am But that’s not the point you were making - the idea that a nutter might one day have access to and use them, is not the same as “we will have WW3 because we’ve learned nothing” - the world is currently not in a great place, absolutely, but it does seem that the world is currently organised in such a way that makes it unlikely that there’ll be open, all out war on a global scale

Regarding the use of nukes - The greatest risk of nukes is their use by 2nd or 3rd-tier states. For instance, Iran has supplied Russia with weapons for its war in Ukraine. But what has Russia paid with? It's currency is dogsh*t, which means it has either used some of its considerable gold reserves, or given the Iranians a nuke or two.

It's unlikely at this stage that there'll be direct armed conflict between the main powers. But, if there was, different countries have different military doctrines which set out if, how and when nukes will be used. Unsurprisingly, those countries who have relatively weaker conventional armed forces tend to arrive at the "f*ck, press the red button" stage sooner. And this puts those with stronger armed forces in a dilemma.

Certainly feels like Russia/China/Iran/Hamas et al were less sabre rattling interventiony when Trump was President despite him being “isolationist”

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:44 am Certainly feels like Russia/China/Iran/Hamas et al were less sabre rattling interventiony when Trump was President despite him being “isolationist”

I would suggest that that’s in no small part due to him being unpredictable, but that’s inherently short term - either he (or similar leaders) turn out to not have the appetite and support to enable them to nuke a country out of existence (in which case Trump becomes just another, albeit loud, part of the status quo) , or he does have the means and motivation to burn the world down, in which case we’re f***ed

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:09 am I read a great quote from somebody yesterday. “The lessons from history is we don’t learn the lessons from history “. In my opinion sooner or later there’s going to be a world war. The only question is when , where and how it’s ignited. It just seems to me people simply can’t live together in peace and harmony. It never has been the case and never will be. I bet that after the next war there won’t be a load of old farts left to sign pieces of paper in a train carriage

look at my village Wethersfield 500 immigrants
living together all different nationality's they
cant stop fighting and moaning about there accommodation
in the American air base.riot police there all the time.
tell them if they don't like it we will be happy to send you
back to France to live in a tent.

I see Greyhound is talking absolute b******s again

America wants a war with China. America sees it's power and influence waning, and sees a war with China as a way to re assurt itself.
Israel is a danger to the world because it has nuclear weapons and is run by physcopaths..
As long ago as as the 60s,JFK was worried about Israel having nuclear weapons.
The world is in a precarious position at present, and we should all be worried imo

greyhound wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:57 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:09 am I read a great quote from somebody yesterday. “The lessons from history is we don’t learn the lessons from history “. In my opinion sooner or later there’s going to be a world war. The only question is when , where and how it’s ignited. It just seems to me people simply can’t live together in peace and harmony. It never has been the case and never will be. I bet that after the next war there won’t be a load of old farts left to sign pieces of paper in a train carriage

look at my village Wethersfield 500 immigrants
living together all different nationality's they
cant stop fighting and moaning about there accommodation
in the American air base.riot police there all the time.
tell them if they don't like it we will be happy to send you
back to France to live in a tent.

When you say living together, you mean contained in an ayslum camp with conditions akin to the places they have left?

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:02 am Despite what the cranks may believe, the US (and allies) are desperate to avoid any direct military conflict with any of these states.

America wants a war with China

Boom!

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:13 pm America wants a war with China. America sees it's power and influence waning, and sees a war with China as a way to re assurt itself.
Israel is a danger to the world because it has nuclear weapons and is run by physcopaths..
As long ago as as the 60s,JFK was worried about Israel having nuclear weapons.
The world is in a precarious position at present, and we should all be worried imo

Was it the Israelis's on the Grassy knoll?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:30 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:13 pm America wants a war with China. America sees it's power and influence waning, and sees a war with China as a way to re assurt itself.
Israel is a danger to the world because it has nuclear weapons and is run by physcopaths..
As long ago as as the 60s,JFK was worried about Israel having nuclear weapons.
The world is in a precarious position at present, and we should all be worried imo

Was it the Israelis's on the Grassy knoll?

What?????????????????????/
https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Presiden ... 963-589107

https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/kennedy ... nspections

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:01 pm I see Greyhound is talking absolute b******s again

you no nothing

You're the one banging on about immigrants invading Coronation Street.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:21 pm

greyhound wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:57 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:09 am I read a great quote from somebody yesterday. “The lessons from history is we don’t learn the lessons from history “. In my opinion sooner or later there’s going to be a world war. The only question is when , where and how it’s ignited. It just seems to me people simply can’t live together in peace and harmony. It never has been the case and never will be. I bet that after the next war there won’t be a load of old farts left to sign pieces of paper in a train carriage

look at my village Wethersfield 500 immigrants
living together all different nationality's they
cant stop fighting and moaning about there accommodation
in the American air base.riot police there all the time.
tell them if they don't like it we will be happy to send you
back to France to live in a tent.

When you say living together, you mean contained in an ayslum camp with conditions akin to the places they have left?

you have not seen the place American
service men live better than our service men
they always have.
if they are so hard done buy then go back home
simple 500 young men all in designer clothes
and paying thousands to get hear
its only idiots that feels sorry for them
until they move next door.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:33 pm You're the one banging on about immigrants invading Coronation Street.

get back in your shell joe.

Seven people reported killed in Iran after Pakistan launched missile attacks in retaliation for Iran's own missile launch on them on Wednesday, which reportedly killed two children.

This is going to be very confusing for the dimwits on Saturday's "Free Palestine" march, who do they support now?

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:01 am This is going to be very confusing for the dimwits on Saturday's "Free Palestine" march, who do they support now?

Please show your working.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:34 am

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:01 am This is going to be very confusing for the dimwits on Saturday's "Free Palestine" march, who do they support now?

Please show your working.

The Rentacrowd will March against anything for free food and drink en route. They get issued with a couple of placards on arrival and have a run through with chant of the day which will invariably involve ‘ Death to America’ ,
‘Down with Pants’ and ‘Two for One Pizza today at Papa John’s’