Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:30 pm Where you micawbers are missing the point is we are not talking about having played only two games. We are talking about what is there in front of us, for all to see. (Or at least what many can see)

You don't have sufficient data to hand to make that conclusion yet though. Coupled with the fact the transfer window is still open there are plenty of variables to change things before the need to start wetting the bed.

As an aside, anyone else disappointed that this wasn't a very unlikely thread about Sex and the City?

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 9:51 am The term bedwetter used by some on here to describe people who care, when things are not going well and they vocalise their concern.

Ok, what about the opposite ( of which there are many on here), people who appear not to give a sh1t when things are not going well, in the belief that its unnecessary to be concerned because somehow things will be fine, and that anyone who is concerned and says so, is a lesser person.

Anyone got any names to call these people? What about Boneheads ? Any other names?

The mistake you are making here, like in many aspects of social media, is to split people into 2 distinct groups - and everyone has to be in either one camp or the other.

You are obviously in the 'never satisfied with anything' group - aka 'bedwetters', and no doubt there are indeed a few on here who will never question anything the club ever does - aka 'whatever you decide to call them'.

Most people, me included, are somewhere in the middle. Clearly the club needs 1 or 2 more players in 1 or 2 key positions but (personally) I'm happy to let the people who run the club do what they are paid to do. Plenty of people at the club, including Wellens, have said that they are working hard to get the right players in, and I'm happy to let them get on with it. However, to say anyone who doesn't continually whinge about everybody and everything 'doesn't give a sh1t' is insulting to many decent O's fans on here.

The big question though, is what can you or I do about it and what good does moaning do to fix the situation - and the answer is absolutely NOTHING!
We will either get the players we are after, or we won't. In which case, we will presumably go after someone else.

Wellens, Ling and whoever else is involved built a pretty decent side last season and I'm happy to let them do so again - whilst also caring very much about the club, thank you very much!

Ultimately though, the importance of LOFC in my life is somewhere behind my family and my job - in that order. If it's higher up your list of priorities then good luck to you - but for the sake of your health and sanity, you may want to support Man City instead.

The key is bed wetting and being a clappie at the right moments. I was portrayed as moany and negative a few years ago which hindsight has proved to be justified. Just like last year when I was clappie and positive.

Adz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:36 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:30 pm Where you micawbers are missing the point is we are not talking about having played only two games. We are talking about what is there in front of us, for all to see. (Or at least what many can see)

You don't have sufficient data to hand to make that conclusion yet though. Coupled with the fact the transfer window is still open there are plenty of variables to change things before the need to start wetting the bed.

You see Adz, this is where you're not getting it. I'm not thinking about the transfer window being opened or closed. Like I said in another post somewhere, even if we signed a highly rated striker it wouldn't necessarily mean problem solved. I'm talking not just about the first two games but a large part of last season where we were lacking a real threat on goal and had to toil and graft just to create one opening. There's been too much concentration on our midfield - in my opinion.

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:44 pm

Adz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:36 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:30 pm Where you micawbers are missing the point is we are not talking about having played only two games. We are talking about what is there in front of us, for all to see. (Or at least what many can see)

You don't have sufficient data to hand to make that conclusion yet though. Coupled with the fact the transfer window is still open there are plenty of variables to change things before the need to start wetting the bed.

You see Adz, this is where you're not getting it. I'm not thinking about the transfer window being opened or closed. Like I said in another post somewhere, even if we signed a highly rated striker it wouldn't necessarily mean problem solved. I'm talking not just about the first two games but a large part of last season where we were lacking a real threat on goal and had to toil and graft just to create one opening. There's been too much concentration on our midfield - in my opinion.

Your complaining about our promotion wining team last season not making enough chances - unbelievable. I don't know what you bedwetters are on.

We overachieved last year based on chances created. We certainly had to toil and we never hammered anyone. Never scored more than 3, never beat teams by more than a 3 goal difference. No-one went into any game thinking we are too strong for the opposition.

We won league 2. A huge achievement, beyond our wildest dreams at the start of the season. We are now in a new league and it is MUCH much toughter.

We've created minimal chances in two games, our marque signing is out injured for 5 months and we don't look like replacing him or adding another striker. People have every right to be worried.

Petrov788 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:04 pm We overachieved last year based on chances created. We certainly had to toil and we never hammered anyone. Never scored more than 3, never beat teams by more than a 3 goal difference. No-one went into any game thinking we are too strong for the opposition.

We won league 2. A huge achievement, beyond our wildest dreams at the start of the season. We are now in a new league and it is MUCH much toughter.

We've created minimal chances in two games, our marque signing is out injured for 5 months and we don't look like replacing him or adding another striker. People have every right to be worried.

Our strengths last season based on a solid defence and great goalkeeper, For sure the team need to adjust to League One but anyone with an ounce of common sense will know it's going to take a few games for that to happen.

Yes, so why not wait for that to happen before the mass bed-wetting?

Let’s hope our GK & Defence turns up tomorrow, as we will need them if we are to get a 0-0, as we won’t score!

Stan1972 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:28 pm Let’s hope our GK & Defence turns up tomorrow, as we will need them if we are to get a 0-0, as we won’t score!

Wanna bet on that?

BoniO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:29 pm

Stan1972 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:28 pm Let’s hope our GK & Defence turns up tomorrow, as we will need them if we are to get a 0-0, as we won’t score!

Wanna bet on that?

Don’t gamble, shsss I’m trying reverse psychology

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:13 pm The key is bed wetting and being a clappie at the right moments. I was portrayed as moany and negative a few years ago which hindsight has proved to be justified. Just like last year when I was clappie and positive.

Justified because 3 managers later we got a promotion?

I haven’t wet the bed since 24 June ‘16

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:41 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:13 pm The key is bed wetting and being a clappie at the right moments. I was portrayed as moany and negative a few years ago which hindsight has proved to be justified. Just like last year when I was clappie and positive.

Justified because 3 managers later we got a promotion?

What?

Justified because we were awful under Embelton in his multiple stints. Justified because we were lacking DCM for about 4 years (look at the difference El Miz made) and various other things I got right. Also called for Wellens before Jackett was hired.etc etc

Petrov788 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:04 pm .... Never scored more than 3, never beat teams by more than a 3 goal difference. ....

Would have done well to beat anyone by more than 3 goals if never scored more than three goals

The Boneheads/McCawbers on here just dont get it.

Chief Crazy Horse gets it........me & him are thinking the same thing.

So many of you think, if we suddenly get a good No.9, all our troubles will be over, as we march up the league, scoring goals galore

Not So!!!!

Even last season, most of our goals didnt come from team worked chances created, they came from individual bits of brilliance, mainly from Paul Smyth. How many times did he pick up the ball, beat a few players, and smash it in the goal. No teamwork involved, just him using his immense skill.

Tom James score 4 worldies..nothing to do with teamwork or creating chances....just individual skill. The free kick Sadlier scored at Sutton...just individual skill and so on.

If Harry Kane changed his mind, and swerved Bayern Munich, and signed for Orient instead, he wouldnt score many, because we dont make chances, we have been a team that relies on individual skill, and so many of you cant see that, and the player with the most individual skill, isnt here any more, and by God it shows.

Wellens said, in interviews after both games, we were lethargic, or in other words slow.........slower than our opponents.

Our whole game has to change, to a game that creates chances, or we are doomed.

The injuries are hindering us, sure, but our whole game isnt going to work.

A number 9 will help, but until we create chances, we wont score many goals, and therefore win many games

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:04 pm The Boneheads/McCawbers on here just dont get it.

Chief Crazy Horse gets it........me & him are thinking the same thing.

So many of you think, if we suddenly get a good No.9, all our troubles will be over, as we march up the league, scoring goals galore

Not So!!!!

Even last season, most of our goals didnt come from team worked chances created, they came from individual bits of brilliance, mainly from Paul Smyth. How many times did he pick up the ball, beat a few players, and smash it in the goal. No teamwork involved, just him using his immense skill.

Tom James score 4 worldies..nothing to do with teamwork or creating chances....just individual skill. The free kick Sadlier scored at Sutton...just individual skill and so on.

If Harry Kane changed his mind, and swerved Bayern Munich, and signed for Orient instead, he wouldnt score many, because we dont make chances, we have been a team that relies on individual skill, and so many of you cant see that, and the player with the most individual skill, isnt here any more, and by God it shows.

Wellens said, in interviews after both games, we were lethargic, or in other words slow.........slower than our opponents.

Our whole game has to change, to a game that creates chances, or we are doomed.

The injuries are hindering us, sure, but our whole game isnt going to work.

A number 9 will help, but until we create chances, we wont score many goals, and therefore win many games

We should sack Wellens and employ you as manager, you obviously know what we need.

Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:08 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:04 pm The Boneheads/McCawbers on here just dont get it.

Chief Crazy Horse gets it........me & him are thinking the same thing.

So many of you think, if we suddenly get a good No.9, all our troubles will be over, as we march up the league, scoring goals galore

Not So!!!!

Even last season, most of our goals didnt come from team worked chances created, they came from individual bits of brilliance, mainly from Paul Smyth. How many times did he pick up the ball, beat a few players, and smash it in the goal. No teamwork involved, just him using his immense skill.

Tom James score 4 worldies..nothing to do with teamwork or creating chances....just individual skill. The free kick Sadlier scored at Sutton...just individual skill and so on.

If Harry Kane changed his mind, and swerved Bayern Munich, and signed for Orient instead, he wouldnt score many, because we dont make chances, we have been a team that relies on individual skill, and so many of you cant see that, and the player with the most individual skill, isnt here any more, and by God it shows.

Wellens said, in interviews after both games, we were lethargic, or in other words slow.........slower than our opponents.

Our whole game has to change, to a game that creates chances, or we are doomed.

The injuries are hindering us, sure, but our whole game isnt going to work.

A number 9 will help, but until we create chances, we wont score many goals, and therefore win many games

We should sack Wellens and employ you as manager, you obviously know what we need.

Correct. I've emailed the club suggesting that.
I'm waiting to hear from them

"We've got ComeOnYouOsRS,
He knows exactly what we need"

That does actually scan OK. I'm in.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 4:32 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:41 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:13 pm The key is bed wetting and being a clappie at the right moments. I was portrayed as moany and negative a few years ago which hindsight has proved to be justified. Just like last year when I was clappie and positive.

Justified because 3 managers later we got a promotion?

What?

Justified because we were awful under Embelton in his multiple stints. Justified because we were lacking DCM for about 4 years (look at the difference El Miz made) and various other things I got right. Also called for Wellens before Jackett was hired.etc etc

We were not awful. The club was in crisis for his first stint.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:04 pm The Boneheads/McCawbers on here just dont get it.

Chief Crazy Horse gets it........me & him are thinking the same thing.

So many of you think, if we suddenly get a good No.9, all our troubles will be over, as we march up the league, scoring goals galore

Not So!!!!

Even last season, most of our goals didnt come from team worked chances created, they came from individual bits of brilliance, mainly from Paul Smyth. How many times did he pick up the ball, beat a few players, and smash it in the goal. No teamwork involved, just him using his immense skill.

Tom James score 4 worldies..nothing to do with teamwork or creating chances....just individual skill. The free kick Sadlier scored at Sutton...just individual skill and so on.

If Harry Kane changed his mind, and swerved Bayern Munich, and signed for Orient instead, he wouldnt score many, because we dont make chances, we have been a team that relies on individual skill, and so many of you cant see that, and the player with the most individual skill, isnt here any more, and by God it shows.

Wellens said, in interviews after both games, we were lethargic, or in other words slow.........slower than our opponents.

Our whole game has to change, to a game that creates chances, or we are doomed.

The injuries are hindering us, sure, but our whole game isnt going to work.

A number 9 will help, but until we create chances, we wont score many goals, and therefore win many games

The title of this thread was so promising..........then I realised that was a pack of lies as well

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 9:51 am The term bedwetter used by some on here to describe people who care, when things are not going well and they vocalise their concern.

Ok, what about the opposite ( of which there are many on here), people who appear not to give a sh1t when things are not going well, in the belief that its unnecessary to be concerned because somehow things will be fine, and that anyone who is concerned and says so, is a lesser person.

Anyone got any names to call these people? What about Boneheads ? Any other names?

How does whining on here about your beloved football club move it forward?

How does not whining, and taking a more measured approach (most of the rest of the fans) move the club backwards?

Thanks

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:57 pm [quote=ComeOnYouOs post_id=337485 time=<a href="tel:1691743898">1691743898</a> user_id=69]
The term bedwetter used by some on here to describe people who care, when things are not going well and they vocalise their concern.

Ok, what about the opposite ( of which there are many on here), people who appear not to give a sh1t when things are not going well, in the belief that its unnecessary to be concerned because somehow things will be fine, and that anyone who is concerned and says so, is a lesser person.

Anyone got any names to call these people? What about Boneheads ? Any other names?

How does whining on here about your beloved football club move it forward?

How does not whining, and taking a more measured approach (most of the rest of the fans) move the club backwards?

Thanks
[/quote]

Well said

For me part of the fun of being a football fan is that "armchair analysis" and debate. Watching the game and seeing if you think along the same lines as the manager, predicting the club's transfer moves and the chat on social media, message board etc.

For others it seems to be the blind faith "supporter" gig that comes with a requirement from the group not to question or analyze, just turn up, clap, take selfies and so on.

The two don't meet in the middle as the latter see the former as critical voices yet some of the concerns turn out to be rational and end up being addressed. The move away from the internal "production line of talent" after Embleton & McAnuff probably the most visible case in point of that.

Ultimately the views of the two groups are too far opposed to ever meet down the middle, outside perhaps of last season which was pretty magical for all concerned.