Independent Leyton Orient Forum

UK inflation rate is 11.1%. Most of the strikers have had derisory pay rises in the last 5-10 years. Most of them have pretty arduous jobs too. People knock rail workers. Remember that when you leave early to go on public transport on a freezing morning like today; the transport workers had to get up even earlier than you to get it going.
Then you get these well paid oiks like Tory MP's who have been feathering their own nests and giving their mates eye watering bungs for stuff that's crap. There are a lot of people in not very worthy jobs, earning a packet. These same Tories think they can get the Electorate salivating in anger like Pavlovian dogs at the mention of Unions or strikes. I reckon that tactic ain't gonna work this time.
Would a pay rise of 15% seem unreasonable in those circumstances?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:57 am Regardless of job, what % would you all consider a fair pay rise?

One that at least matches inflation so people can at least stand still instead of going backwards.

And if many people got that rise, would that worsen inflation?

What is causing inflation and will it be temporary?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:57 am Regardless of job, what % would you all consider a fair pay rise?

There needs to be a resettlement of the balance between corporate profits, taxation of wealth and remuneration for workers.

It needs to be re-normalised that someone working full time is paid enough to afford a safe and healthy lifestyle that can support a household with children, including ownership of a modest home (important as a store of wealth for ordinary people).

This used to be normal. We've allowed ourselves to be tricked into thinking that we should get less for our efforts. The strikes are the efforts of some to push back slightly against the direction of travel over the last 30-odd years. It baffles me how anyone can criticise this, even if we may be personally inconvenienced.

I get the argument that inflation-matching pay rises can become circulatory contributors to further inflation (for some reason the same argument is never put forward on company profits and dividends). Fine. Then balance a below-inflation pay rise with wealth distribution measures so that the pay increases are not necessary.

I would've thought that striking on xmas eve would erode a lot of the good will people have towards them. Most people will understand it on a normal day but to eff up one of the biggest transport days of the year doesn't bode well for your public opinion.

Also, strikes do work. They are proven as the most effective means for ordinary people to get a better deal.

Unite Union has just confirmed that their planned bus driver strike has now been called off, as they have won an 11% pay increase, and 10% increase on back-pay, for their workers. This was despite being initially offered a 4% increase, and being criticised for how their drivers were being mean to passengers by inconveniencing them.

And why does everyone blame the workers for striking, even if it is on Christmas Eve? Why not blame the employers whose management has led to this situation in the first place? Why be such twats?

for those who work what pay rise did you all get?

I got 5% with a one off £1,000 cost of living award.

Only people who should get close to the rate of inflation are NHS staff below a certain pay level.

JimbO wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:29 pm for those who work what pay rise did you all get?

I got 5% with a one off £1,000 cost of living award.

Only people who should get close to the rate of inflation are NHS staff below a certain pay level.

So, because you got taken for a mug, you think others should too?

Working people have been fooled into turning on each other, I often hear the argument that train drivers shouldnt be on strike or get a rise because they are already paid so well. The bit people leave out but are thinking is, 'train drivers are paid well but I'm not and thats not fair'.

I am in a union but can only recall getting an inflation matching rise on a single occasion in the last 20 years.

Been offered 3%

Not enough people in my union bothered to return their ballot

Some unions are better than others, and often are only as good as those who are willing to get involved at a local level. It ain't supposed to be easy.

We got an 11% increase plus a one-off payment equivalent to 2.5% of our earnings in the 2021/22 year.

Employer budgeted for 5%, we've been offered 2%. Now belatedly being taken up by Unite but we have a pretty small number of members in the workplace so not sure how much leverage we'll have.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:22 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:57 am Regardless of job, what % would you all consider a fair pay rise?

There needs to be a resettlement of the balance between corporate profits, taxation of wealth and remuneration for workers.

It needs to be re-normalised that someone working full time is paid enough to afford a safe and healthy lifestyle that can support a household with children, including ownership of a modest home (important as a store of wealth for ordinary people).

This used to be normal. We've allowed ourselves to be tricked into thinking that we should get less for our efforts. The strikes are the efforts of some to push back slightly against the direction of travel over the last 30-odd years. It baffles me how anyone can criticise this, even if we may be personally inconvenienced.

I get the argument that inflation-matching pay rises can become circulatory contributors to further inflation (for some reason the same argument is never put forward on company profits and dividends). Fine. Then balance a below-inflation pay rise with wealth distribution measures so that the pay increases are not necessary.

The current level of inflation is being caused by greedy capitalist pigs taking excess profits + Br**it.

There aren't many workers winning above inflation pay rises. Even amongst the brave striking ones.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:39 pm Some unions are better than others, and often are only as good as those who are willing to get involved at a local level. It ain't supposed to be easy.

We got an 11% increase plus a one-off payment equivalent to 2.5% of our earnings in the 2021/22 year.

One Big Union.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:14 pm

What is causing inflation?

Companies charging more for things so as to make record profits for their bosses and shareholders.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:14 pm Will it be temporary?

No, it's permanent. Forever.

If your money stays the same and things go up 10% in cost, you are permanently 10% worse off than you were.

Dunnem clearly sh*tting himself that he's on Santa's naughty list....

Its not caused by the energy crisis/ukraine war then?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:01 pm Its not caused by the energy crisis/ukraine war then?

Ok. Yes, it's a bit of that and a bit of Corbyn.

TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:01 pm Dunnem clearly sh*tting himself that he's on Santa's naughty list....

A bizarre Left turn. Furiously rowing back from the Centre like Chay Blyth.

TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:17 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:01 pm Its not caused by the energy crisis/ukraine war then?

Ok. Yes, it's a bit of that and a bit of Corbyn.

Are you saying that business is passing on more than their increased energy and material costs to consumers?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:47 pm

TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:17 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:01 pm Its not caused by the energy crisis/ukraine war then?

Ok. Yes, it's a bit of that and a bit of Corbyn.

Are you saying that business is passing on more than their increased energy and material costs to consumers?

Wage increases have tracked below inflation and asset price increases for decades. The recent inflationary spike is caused in a large part by external factors beyond our control, but it is waking people up from the 30-year slumber. So any wage increases now must not only be viewed against the current 11.1% CPI figure (14.2% RPI), but also against this 30-year lag.

The bus drivers who recently won their battle for 11% wage increases are still worse off than a bus driver in 1982. The 1982 bus driver could have supported a family of four on their salary, bought a house, had one holiday a year and owned a car. The 2022 bus driver is unlikely to be able to do any of that if they're the sole earner.

The 1982 bus company would not have been as profitable, but it managed. The 2022 bus company will be part of a multi-national corporation that has sought every option to maximise profits and will not give a stuff if their 2022 bus driver has had reason to acquaint themselves with the local food bank.

I'm not suggesting we go back to 1982, but there needs to be some recalibration so that we claw back some of that wealth that was accessible to ordinary people then.

TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:11 pm

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:02 pm somebodies standard of living has to drop somewhere.

No it doesn't.

When external costs go up, there is less to go around, and someone somewhere has to pay. Its simple economics. We could of course borrow more, most peoples solution to everything, but not a popular solution when the necessary austerity follows.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:47 pm

TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:17 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:01 pm Its not caused by the energy crisis/ukraine war then?

Ok. Yes, it's a bit of that and a bit of Corbyn.

Are you saying that business is passing on more than their increased energy and material costs to consumers?

Yes

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:18 pm

TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:11 pm

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:02 pm somebodies standard of living has to drop somewhere.

No it doesn't.

When external costs go up, there is less to go around, and someone somewhere has to pay. Its simple economics. We could of course borrow more, most peoples solution to everything, but not a popular solution when the necessary austerity follows.

Hmm. Doesn't really explain the accumulation of wealth by greedy capitalists at the cost of eroding the purchasing power of workers. Giving rise to unprecedented inequality. Seems like the "someone somewhere" losing out is the worker. Not the billionaires.