Independent Leyton Orient Forum

It’s a shame people don’t utilise a search engine before posting hoaxs as fact

CEB wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:07 pm “Max’yyy, you’re talking absolute crap”

The Dalai Lama

Relentless. I'm beginning to appreciate how the poor old Reverend feels.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:06 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:54 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:43 pm Be interesting to see some of the reactions on here if a country like Iran was indiscriminately killing people instead of Israel

In an indirect way, Iran is.

And, as has been pointed out above, it's not indiscriminate. It's an intense urban armed conflict within high-density populated areas. Civilian causalities are unavoidable in such a scenario.

You know what I mean. Iraq, saudi.

Bless you believe that second part

Genuinely not getting what is disputable in that. It is an armed conflict. It is taking place within a high-density populated area. And, in such situations, there is always going to be civilian collateral.

Putting aside whether someone thinks that Israel should be engaged with the current military operation in the first place, once the present course of action was decided upon then civilian deaths became unavoidable. The only way to avoid them would be for Israel to have not reacted with military force to the Oct 7th attacks.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:06 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:54 pm
And, as has been pointed out above, it's not indiscriminate. It's an intense urban armed conflict within high-density populated areas. Civilian causalities are unavoidable in such a scenario.

You should present your evidence to the UN and the Yanks and tell them to wind their necks in then.

^Here's the thing. Stating what I have stated doesn't excuse anything Israel may have done. And yet the default reaction of so many is to misinterpret anything that isn't coded as anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian as being the opposite. People have lost their minds.

There’s a difference between unavoidable civilian casualties and the sort of sorched earth we are seeing. There’s also moral and ethical questions about whether action in highly populated areas should be taking place.

It’s very black and white to say…yeah it’s an urban war what do you expect?

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:52 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:06 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:54 pm

In an indirect way, Iran is.

And, as has been pointed out above, it's not indiscriminate. It's an intense urban armed conflict within high-density populated areas. Civilian causalities are unavoidable in such a scenario.

You know what I mean. Iraq, saudi.

Bless you believe that second part

Genuinely not getting what is disputable in that. It is an armed conflict. It is taking place within a high-density populated area. And, in such situations, there is always going to be civilian collateral.

Putting aside whether someone thinks that Israel should be engaged with the current military operation in the first place, once the present course of action was decided upon then civilian deaths became unavoidable. The only way to avoid them would be for Israel to have not reacted with military force to the Oct 7th attacks.

Disengenious. It's a matter of intent and scale. The intention was to destroy Gaza and the scale of it is a genocide.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:52 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:06 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:54 pm

In an indirect way, Iran is.

And, as has been pointed out above, it's not indiscriminate. It's an intense urban armed conflict within high-density populated areas. Civilian causalities are unavoidable in such a scenario.

You know what I mean. Iraq, saudi.

Bless you believe that second part

Genuinely not getting what is disputable in that. It is an armed conflict. It is taking place within a high-density populated area. And, in such situations, there is always going to be civilian collateral.

Putting aside whether someone thinks that Israel should be engaged with the current military operation in the first place, once the present course of action was decided upon then civilian deaths became unavoidable. The only way to avoid them would be for Israel to have not reacted with military force to the Oct 7th attacks.

So if its an armed conflict where Civillians get killed, why are people talking about a Terrorist attack on October 7th in a way that seems too be so shocking to the world.

Civilians in high-density populated areas will get killed after all.

Tuff question

Is it ?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:04 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:52 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:06 pm

You know what I mean. Iraq, saudi.

Bless you believe that second part

Genuinely not getting what is disputable in that. It is an armed conflict. It is taking place within a high-density populated area. And, in such situations, there is always going to be civilian collateral.

Putting aside whether someone thinks that Israel should be engaged with the current military operation in the first place, once the present course of action was decided upon then civilian deaths became unavoidable. The only way to avoid them would be for Israel to have not reacted with military force to the Oct 7th attacks.

Disengenious. It's a matter of intent and scale. The intention was to destroy Gaza and the scale of it is a genocide.

I'm not being disingenuous.

Hamas, its equipment, its personnel, and its infrastructure are fully imbedded within the Gazan population. And, let's not be naïve here, Hamas is fully prepared to use civilians and their buildings as a shield.

Israel has decided it must "destroy Hamas". This means killing, capturing or severely injuring all of its personnel. It also means destroying as much of its equipment (weapons, communications etc) and infrastructure (tunnels etc) as possible.

You and I can disagree all we like with this decision, but once the decision to "destroy Hamas" was taken, then what we are seeing unfold became inevitable. And yes, I'm fully aware that there are extremists within the Israeli government that will have desired that outcome regardless of what Hamas did on Oct 7th.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:16 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:04 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:52 pm

Genuinely not getting what is disputable in that. It is an armed conflict. It is taking place within a high-density populated area. And, in such situations, there is always going to be civilian collateral.

Putting aside whether someone thinks that Israel should be engaged with the current military operation in the first place, once the present course of action was decided upon then civilian deaths became unavoidable. The only way to avoid them would be for Israel to have not reacted with military force to the Oct 7th attacks.

Disengenious. It's a matter of intent and scale. The intention was to destroy Gaza and the scale of it is a genocide.

I'm not being disingenuous.

Hamas, its equipment, its personnel, and its infrastructure are fully imbedded within the Gazan population. And, let's not be naïve here, Hamas is fully prepared to use civilians and their buildings as a shield.

Israel has decided it must "destroy Hamas". This means killing, capturing or severely injuring all of its personnel. It also means destroying as much of its equipment (weapons, communications etc) and infrastructure (tunnels etc) as possible.

You and I can disagree all we like with this decision, but once the decision to "destroy Hamas" was taken, then what we are seeing unfold became inevitable. And yes, I'm fully aware that there are extremists within the Israeli government that will have desired that outcome regardless of what Hamas did on Oct 7th.

You know there are rules of war & that those rules are being broken. War crimes being committed in the name of Israel, will do it far more damage long term.

Brigs wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:15 pmIs it ?

No. Its moronic.

Brigs wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:19 pm
You know there are rules of war & that those rules are being broken. War crimes being committed in the name of Israel, will do it far more damage long term.

Yes but once the decision to go to war was taken, it was inevitable that the rules of engagement would be broken and Israel would slaughter tens of thousands of civillians. You and I disagreeing about that won't change anything etc etc.

Not according to this person

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:22 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:15 pmIs it ?

No. Its moronic.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 2:52 pm
Genuinely not getting what is disputable in that. It is an armed conflict. It is taking place within a high-density populated area. And, in such situations, there is always going to be civilian collateral.

Seems a fairly obvious statement to understand.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:24 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:19 pm
You know there are rules of war & that those rules are being broken. War crimes being committed in the name of Israel, will do it far more damage long term.

Yes but once the decision to go to war was taken, it was inevitable that the rules of engagement would be broken and Israel would slaughter tens of thousands of civillians. You and I disagreeing about that won't change anything etc etc.

Who is disagreeing with you?
Certainly not me.

Israel will not be able to " destroy Hamas ", for a million and one reasons.

Hamas will regroup, maybe in Gaza, maybe somewhere else, but they will be around.

After what Israel has done to the civilians in Gaza, every 12 year old boy, will be joining Hamas by 2029.......the 14 & 15 year olds, even sooner.

Hamas wasn't formed untill 1987, almost 40 years after the Israeli occupation, and by international law, occupied people are allowed to resist their occupier, by any means they desire, including the taking up of arms.

Look it up if you dont believe that

The Zionists shills would have the world believe that this started on October 7th, and everything was hunky dory before that date.

The Israelis have been murdering, and brutalizing Palestinians for 76 years, beating them up, starving them, denying them fresh water, locking their children in jail, not allowing them to walk the same streets that Jews walk.

When i was a little kid, i asked my Dad, how come the Nazis were allowed to do all the horrors they did, and the rest of the world allowed it until 1939.

He couldnt answer me, but now i see the same thing with Israel, being able to do whatever they like, with no criticism at all. Anyone who dares to even murmer at Israeli atrocities is immediately labelled antisemitic, or lately as a Hamas supporter.

JFK could see what was going to happen, over 65 years ago, he warned the world about Israeli Zionism......many think his stand towards Israeli Zionists was one of the reasons he was murdered....who knows?

Every country ever, that has been occupied, spawns a resistance movement, and Palestine/Gaza is no different.

Hamas is the only resistance Israel gets......every other country, movement, group, will never go against Israel, whatever they do, or have done

Israel is the total incarnation of evil

Mossad killed JFK!?

Huge if true

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:41 pm Mossad killed JFK!?

Yep, in cahoots with Martin from Eurovision.

The United Nations reduced estimates for the number of women and children killed during Israel's war in Gaza by nearly half, inviting new scrutiny for figures that come from the militant group Hamas.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/united-nation ... 41270.html

Of the 34,735 people who have died in Gaza since the war began, according to data published May 6 by the UN, more than 9,500 were women and more than 14,500 were children.

But in updated data published two days later on May 8, the UN significantly reduced the figures to 4,959 women and 7,797 children among the 34,844 people reportedly killed in Gaza.

faldO wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 8:35 pm The United Nations reduced estimates for the number of women and children killed during Israel's war in Gaza by nearly half, inviting new scrutiny for figures that come from the militant group Hamas.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/united-nation ... 41270.html

Of the 34,735 people who have died in Gaza since the war began, according to data published May 6 by the UN, more than 9,500 were women and more than 14,500 were children.

But in updated data published two days later on May 8, the UN significantly reduced the figures to 4,959 women and 7,797 children among the 34,844 people reportedly killed in Gaza.

Really? Well that's alright then. What were we making a fuss about?

Can anyone read this and still believe that Israel's actions are really about finding Hamas operatives hiding in tunnels?

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/is ... dy/3217700

"Since Oct. 7 alone, the start of the Israel-Hamas war, at least 35,034 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza, with 14,944 being children and 9,849 women.

The bodies of around 7,000 people are yet to be recovered. In the West Bank, 492 Palestinians have lost their lives due to attacks by Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers since Oct. 7.

As of the end of 2022, the number of Israeli military checkpoints and settlements in the West Bank had reached 483, with the settler population reaching 745,467, mainly in Jerusalem.

A significant increase in settlement construction was observed in 2023, with Israeli authorities approving plans for more than 18,000 units, including in Jerusalem.

In 2022, Israeli authorities seized 26,000 acres of Palestinian land in the West Bank, a number that increased to 50,526 acres in 2023.

Since Oct. 7, 2023, Israel has destroyed or severely damaged a total of 89,000 buildings in Gaza, including 104 belonging to the UN.

The cost of the war in Gaza, including damage to infrastructure, roads, electricity, water networks and agricultural land, is estimated to total $30 billion.

In the West Bank, Israel partially or completely demolished 659 buildings and facilities in 2023.

Additionally, demolition orders were issued for 1,333 Palestinian facilities on the grounds of lacking permits.

Also in 2023, Jewish settlers and Israeli forces carried out 12,161 attacks against Palestinians and their properties, including 3,808 against properties and religious sites, 707 against lands and natural resources, and 7,646 against individuals."

Yet pudgy faced Lord Cameron tells us that there is nothing wrong with the UK supplying arms to Israel 'because of Hamas' ----

The Jewish 'settlers' (illegal under international law but their proliferation encouraged by Israel) are not doing the image of the state of Israel any favours, IMO ...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... aid-convoy

E10EU wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:51 am The Jewish 'settlers' (illegal under international law but their proliferation encouraged by Israel) are not doing the image of the state of Israel any favours, IMO ...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... aid-convoy

Don’t worry! I’m sure Israel will move Heaven and Earth to ensure this doesn’t happen again. The provision of humanitarian aid to Gaza, as prescribed by International law, is very high on their agenda - ish. Well, it’s not right at the bottom anyway. OK, so it is, but at least it gets a mention…..

They're literally providing aid to the people they are at war with. That it happens at all is mad.