Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:10 pm Still really can't wrap my head around why her crimes won't be treated like any other under age offender

I can.

If she came back she would be hailed a hero by the people who want to see this country defeated by terror. O it's god's will also.

If she came back it would be consistent with the return of thousands of other ISIS nutjobs who have never been in the media spotlight. Regardless of whether she is a threat or not, she is being treated differently because she is now the mother of all political footballs.

When Ms Begum committed these "crimes", she was a 15 year old child.

God, we've all made stupid mistakes at that age. I cant believe she's still reckoned to be a threat to the country.

There are many more people i consider more of a threat to us all, and a threat to our way of life.....most of them are in the Tory government

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:30 pm When Ms Begum committed these "crimes", she was a 15 year old child.

God, we've all made stupid mistakes at that age. I cant believe she's still reckoned to be a threat to the country.

There are many more people i consider more of a threat to us all, and a threat to our way of life.....most of them are in the Tory government

Strangely 15 year old Shamina was too young to understand but 15 year old Greta is a World leader

She should have entrusted her appeal to Martin Ling. He would have got it over then line

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:30 pm When Ms Begum committed these "crimes", she was a 15 year old child.

God, we've all made stupid mistakes at that age.

I don't think shooting someone in the arse with a pellet gun is quite on the same scale as being a member of a terrorist group that beheaded charity workers

one o in huntingdon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:51 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:30 pm When Ms Begum committed these "crimes", she was a 15 year old child.

God, we've all made stupid mistakes at that age.

I don't think shooting someone in the arse with a pellet gun is quite on the same scale as being a member of a terrorist group that beheaded charity workers

Were women allowed to be members?

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:25 am The judgement is in, and it is as expected. A lot of people seem to be very happy that the UK government has acted in this way, without giving much thought to the precedent it sets.

As long as the leopards don't eat their faces it's all absolutely fine.

So she was too young to know what she was doing, but it is ok for children her age and younger to decide what gender they are

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:04 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:25 am The judgement is in, and it is as expected. A lot of people seem to be very happy that the UK government has acted in this way, without giving much thought to the precedent it sets.

As long as the leopards don't eat their faces it's all absolutely fine.

Not long before we can all be legally exiled. I bet someone is drawing up a list.

If the woman committed crimes bring her back and try her. That's what usually happens.

The fact that they won't speaks volumes about what they don't want us to know about intelligence service involvement.

Story of O wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:10 pm So she was too young to know what she was doing, but it is ok for children her age and younger to decide what gender they are

Its not that she didn't understand what she was doing. It's that she never fully understood the consequences and was pressured into her actions by manipulative males

Quite a few well informed bods are saying she is more dangerous where she is now, than in the UK where she could be closely scrutinised. I would suggest a nice hotel placement in the constituency of Christchurch ( my favourite bête noire ) is the honourable (?) member.

No need for conspiracy theories. There was certainly a Canadian intelligence service asset involved - this is covered in the podcast series. He was one of the many involved in assisting those who wished to cross the border, and supplied photos of their IDs to the Canadian embassy in Turkey in the hope of being granted the right to live in Canada in the future. The girls could easily have found themselves being assisted by someone else.

It could have represented an opportunity to intervene and prevent the three girls from traveling, but it's not clear if there was sufficient time. I suspect any intervention would also have risked exposing the intelligence asset, so even if there was time it's possible that an intelligence service would have decided to not risk an asset.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:10 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:04 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:25 am The judgement is in, and it is as expected. A lot of people seem to be very happy that the UK government has acted in this way, without giving much thought to the precedent it sets.

As long as the leopards don't eat their faces it's all absolutely fine.

Not long before we can all be legally exiled. I bet someone is drawing up a list.

If the woman committed crimes bring her back and try her. That's what usually happens.

The fact that they won't speaks volumes about what they don't want us to know about intelligence service involvement.

Dont people usually get tried in the country where they the committed crimes? At the end of her sentence, she could be deported back to the UK.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:26 pm No need for conspiracy theories. There was certainly a Canadian intelligence service asset involved - this is covered in the podcast series. He was one of the many involved in assisting those who wished to cross the border, and supplied photos of their IDs to the Canadian embassy in Turkey in the hope of being granted the right to live in Canada in the future. The girls could easily have found themselves being assisted by someone else.

It could have represented an opportunity to intervene and prevent the three girls from traveling, but it's not clear if there was sufficient time. I suspect any intervention would also have risked exposing the intelligence asset, so even if there was time it's possible that an intelligence service would have decided to not risk an asset.

So what was in it for the Canadians?

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:26 pm No need for conspiracy theories. There was certainly a Canadian intelligence service asset involved - this is covered in the podcast series. He was one of the many involved in assisting those who wished to cross the border, and supplied photos of their IDs to the Canadian embassy in Turkey in the hope of being granted the right to live in Canada in the future. The girls could easily have found themselves being assisted by someone else.

It could have represented an opportunity to intervene and prevent the three girls from traveling, but it's not clear if there was sufficient time. I suspect any intervention would also have risked exposing the intelligence asset, so even if there was time it's possible that an intelligence service would have decided to not risk an asset.

Thank you for confirming the existence of intelligence service involvement that you are aware of from your podcast. How long has your podcast series been running. Is it better than Gilsos?

So the Canadians tracked them but the UK didn't. I wonder if there is any sort of arrangement for the two countries to share information.

This one stinks and you can't dismiss it with the one piece of information you've been fed.

What was the direction of travel when the Canadian asset got involved?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:12 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:10 pm So she was too young to know what she was doing, but it is ok for children her age and younger to decide what gender they are

Its not that she didn't understand what she was doing. It's that she never fully understood the consequences and was pressured into her actions by manipulative males

I'm going by the podcast series here, but that may not be quite right.

She was certainly pressured into certain actions, after arriving in ISIS territory, by manipulative males. And a few manipulate females too.

But, prior to arriving in ISIS territory, the decision to make the journey appears to be without much male influence and was at her own agency.

I posted one possibly hypothesis back on page 6 of this thread which, after listening to the podcast series, I'd say was about right. I've certainly not heard or read anything that supports much assignment of victimhood, such as grooming. But I'd now add peer pressure and stupidity to the list too.

Taking what she has said at face value (which is itself a risk), it sounds as if she really wanted to go there, but soon realised she'd made a major f*ck-up not long after arriving. But by then it was too late.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:32 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:10 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:04 pm

As long as the leopards don't eat their faces it's all absolutely fine.

Not long before we can all be legally exiled. I bet someone is drawing up a list.

If the woman committed crimes bring her back and try her. That's what usually happens.

The fact that they won't speaks volumes about what they don't want us to know about intelligence service involvement.

Dont people usually get tried in the country where they the committed crimes? At the end of her sentence, she could be deported back to the UK.

I'm no lawyer so Spens take on this will be definitive.

But to answer the question. No. Do we know what crimes she has been accused of? Other than presumably assisting known terrorists with increasing their numbers by being exploited as a baby machine?

Max is developing a real pattern of “I know nothing about this, which is better than your perspective, informed as it is by something I haven’t engaged with”

“Podcast??? Lol like the thing that there’s a crap one of here???” is a point that’s impressive in its sheer awfulness.

Ah he done a dirty delete

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:36 pm This one stinks and you can't dismiss it with the one piece of information you've been fed.

What was the direction of travel when the Canadian asset got involved?

I'm not dismissing it completely. But I'm not assigning any specific importance to it yet either.

There were lots of people making a few quid in the border region, assisting people across the border who wished to join ISIS. The Canadian asset was simply one of those. Therefore, when he became involved, the direction of travel was from Turkey to Syria.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:40 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:12 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:10 pm So she was too young to know what she was doing, but it is ok for children her age and younger to decide what gender they are

Its not that she didn't understand what she was doing. It's that she never fully understood the consequences and was pressured into her actions by manipulative males

I'm going by the podcast series here, but that may not be quite right.

She was certainly pressured into certain actions, after arriving in ISIS territory, by manipulative males. And a few manipulate females too.

But, prior to arriving in ISIS territory, the decision to make the journey appears to be without much male influence and was at her own agency.

I posted one possibly hypothesis back on page 6 of this thread which, after listening to the podcast series, I'd say was about right. I've certainly not heard or read anything that supports much assignment of victimhood, such as grooming. But I'd now add peer pressure and stupidity to the list too.

Taking what she has said at face value (which is itself a risk), it sounds as if she really wanted to go there, but soon realised she'd made a major f*ck-up not long after arriving. But by then it was too late.

By all means add stupidity and peer pressure (a bit like grooming. No?)

We are way short on facts here and a trial would assist in clearing things up but there wont be one because her citizenship has been removed by the establishment in extraordinary legal manoeuvres.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:10 pm Still really can't wrap my head around why her crimes won't be treated like any other under age offender ie the principle of rehabilitation applies. Her life ended the moment she made an awful, awful decision at 15 (which is the sort of age you'd consider someone vulnerable to grooming).

Am listening to the BBC series on her and she's not exactly easy to sympathise with mind.

I'm glad that I've not kept up chapter and verse with this, because its both grim on one level and sad that a young girl got to where she now is in life. I'm guessing that she's not considered a young offender because some of the offences occurred when she was no longer a young offender. Right now her only "friends" tend to be a mixture of people very much involved in human rights issues and of supporters that tend to be radical in their views. This last group are largely self interested in their own political aims and aspirations for their religion. That might seem a bit of a far fetched statement but I came very close to employing one such individual a matter of weeks ago. Lets just say I was made aware of his views by others (not government/state related) and it became clear that he was very well known to the authorities for his views.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:45 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:36 pm This one stinks and you can't dismiss it with the one piece of information you've been fed.

What was the direction of travel when the Canadian asset got involved?

I'm not dismissing it completely. But I'm not assigning any specific importance to it yet either.

There were lots of people making a few quid in the border region, assisting people across the border who wished to join ISIS. The Canadian asset was simply one of those. Therefore, when he became involved, the direction of travel was from Turkey to Syria.

Hmm. So he supplied their personal details to the Canadian embassy, who said nothing to the Turkish or UK authorities, just in case they wished to resettle there at a later date. Aye right.

Are Canada so desperate for people they are happy to take in known terrorist sympathisers?