Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Adz wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:56 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 9:24 pm Israel says it won't accept a Palestinian state next to its borders under any circumstances.
The rest of the world want a two state solution, ie. a Palestine state.
How that one gets solved I've no idea.

Hamas hold a similar view to Israel, they don't want a 2 state solution either

Fixed that for you.

More accurate to say Hamas and their supporters want to destroy Israel(do not want a two state solution)? Of course, we're unlikely to know how much support Hamas now have in Palestine seeing as they don't have elections.

Egypt clear huge area of land, possibly in anticipation of Rafah evacuation.

You can’t just say “huge area of land” - how many Waleses? How many football pitches?

A diagram filled with double decker buses usually helps on these occasions

How many Olympic-sized swimming pools would the evacuees fill?

Given numbers involved, be easier to go with how many Wembley stadiums.

Much easier to collect bits of people in a swimming pool so probably a more appropriate measure.

How many thimblefuls of sympathy might the average moderator have for those people?

1 Tbsp of sympathy for each one that doesn't support Hamas.

Gallup polling conducted between July and September 2023 (before the latest war began) found just 24 per cent of Palestinians would support a two state solution. That’s a massive collapse in support since 2012, when the figure was around 60 per cent.

Another pollster, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, did manage to carry out a survey in November and December this year as the war unfolded. Those results found that 35 per cent of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip support a two state solution.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... s-want-one

faldO wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:46 am Gallup polling conducted between July and September 2023 (before the latest war began) found just 24 per cent of Palestinians would support a two state solution. That’s a massive collapse in support since 2012, when the figure was around 60 per cent.

Another pollster, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, did manage to carry out a survey in November and December this year as the war unfolded. Those results found that 35 per cent of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip support a two state solution.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... s-want-one

Eschewing a two state solution is clearly the wrong answer but who could possibly predict that a decade of Israeli oppression would have a negative impact on whether Palestinians were likely to want a harmonious two-state solution?

faldO wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:46 am Gallup polling conducted between July and September 2023 (before the latest war began) found just 24 per cent of Palestinians would support a two state solution. That’s a massive collapse in support since 2012, when the figure was around 60 per cent.

Another pollster, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, did manage to carry out a survey in November and December this year as the war unfolded. Those results found that 35 per cent of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip support a two state solution.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... s-want-one

I dunno. Maybe there's been stuff going on between 2008 and 2023 that might have changed the Palestinian perspective? Just a thought.

CEB wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:41 am How many thimblefuls of sympathy might the average moderator have for those people?

One man-teats worth per 10 dead.

While all of these poll figures are dubious anyway, it's worth acknowledging that even a 40% Palestinian opposition in 2012 to a two-state solution was significant and potentially enough to make it untenable (and that's before we begin to factor in Israeli opposition). It's not as if the people in that 40% would have been inclined to quietly accept the majority position. But I'd agree that everything that has happened since 2012 will have compounded the problem.

Neither side has ever truly been invested in the two state solution. And that will be in some part due to the fact that it was unlikely to ever work. It would have required the aligned effort of just about every state actor in the region, along with the US and Iran, to enforce and uphold. Not a chance.

So we needed to wait 4 months until it was reasonable to call for a stop to the killing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68343334

Because Netanyahu is bound to stop now the opposition party in Britain has piped up.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:51 pm Because Netanyahu is bound to stop now the opposition party in Britain has piped up.

Eh?

It wont make much difference whether they call for a ceasefire or not.

What has this got to do with Labour???

Wouldn't surprise me if Hoyle resigns over the "shenanigans" yesterday.

It seems Starmer told Hoyle to allow the Labour amendment because his MPs are being threatened and he was concerned about their security. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ote-crisis). Threats of violence to MPs - shocking though they are - should not be allowed to dictate how parliament works.

There was even a suggestion on Newsnight last night that Hoyle was told he wouldn't have Labour support to continue as Speaker after the next election and/or go to the house of Lords once his time as speaker is over, unless he did what Starmer was asking.

Should be an interesting day...

It's impressive how just about every political crisis, from Brexit to the Israel/Hamas war, ends up being a bigger problem for Labour than it does the party in actual power.

Fair play to Starmer, he's played a blinder. The bloke is ruthless.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:43 am Fair play to Starmer, he's played a blinder. The bloke is ruthless.

Until of course the press and establishment decide he's served his useful purpose and a great noticing of his faults starts to happen. Same procedure as May and Johnson. Still, I suppose his inevitable victory will make all the centerist dad's delighted for a while until they notice the paucity of policy and change on offer.

The Commons vote was a sh*t-show all round though. The SNP's motion was there to expose Labour (and some Tory) divisions on the issue rather than a real commitment to the supposed cause. Hoyle crumbled under the first sign of pressure and gave almost everyone an escape route from a sticky situation and is likely to end up being forced from office today. Used and abused I suppose but not much sympathy for him either.

Still, it takes the spotlight off the main issues for a few hours and keeps everyone in the Westminster bubble busy for a while.

Looking forward to the crank conspiracy on last night’s shambles