Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:47 pm

RoryRocks wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:22 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:48 pm We are heading for the worst death rate in Europe. Not only is this incredibly frightening, but it is shameful.

There is no difference between the general population deaths and care home deaths. Those people are mothers, fathers, grandparents.

This debate affords them no dignity.

Aged lives matter.

Sad times. It looks like the UK's rate will be 4 times worse than Germany who have a bigger population.

I'm sure they've done a better job than us, but arent they more sparsely populated?

I'm not sure. If I'm not mistaken France and the UK have very similar size of populations.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:03 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:54 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:43 pm European density figures

If you disregard the top 7 (as they're not helpful comparables) that's pretty much what I would have expected. Quite a big difference between England and Germany.

Ignore Turkey too. Only including part of the country in a table comparing countries is ridiculous

Talk about skewing figures. UK and England and all the islands separated. European part of Turkey, WTF

This is like something you would see in Fox News or Russia Today.

Have I missed something here? Why are we disappearing down a rathole based on population density? Is this the latest excuse from the Tories for why we're doing so badly?

Spike has called it above that the UK has a higher percentage of people living in urban areas than Germany and that would appear more relevant than purely looking at density alone.

A countries density of population is a top level number which may have some impact, percentage of people living in urban environments probably more impact and then there's a whole load of other considerations that play a part - age of populations, rich or poor, etc etc.

Well it's both. Infections are more likely to spread in higher density areas, but greater Government investment in public health is crucial, especially in those areas.

Surprised to see we're more densely populated than Lichtenstein, which is smaller than Rochdale and only slightly bigger than Brentwood in terms of area

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:41 pm Well it's both. Infections are more likely to spread in higher density areas, but greater Government investment in public health is crucial, especially in those areas.

And it's about being prepared with enough medical supplies in the event of a National Emergency/Pandemic, having top notch intelligence services with embedded Epidemiologists and acting quickly and decisively. Having a plan.

Basically Good Governance.

British Airways looking to make 12,000 redundancies. f***.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:46 pm British Airways looking to make 12,000 redundancies. f***.

Surely other airlines will follow suit too.

More people have lost their lives in the US now than was lost in the Vietnam War and that took over 20 years. This took only about 2 months.

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/27/in- ... n-vietnam/

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:46 pm British Airways looking to make 12,000 redundancies. f***.

Pray for ocw.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:40 pm My mate who was taken to hospital
Was sent home again 3 hours later .

Hospital said that that was the worst point for him &
they reckon he will now recover .

Strange disease how it affects different people .

15 days later & the lad is back in Hospital having deteriorated this morning .

Id sent him a couple of messages & although was feeling better slowly
He seemed to be in good spirits & we agreed to go for after lockdown .

Bloody Virus !!

I'm noticing a lot more opinion that a realistic timescale for economic activity to recover is 36 to 48 months. Obviously that will vary from sector to sector, but it's difficult to grasp how much our way of life will be transformed in that time.

Cummings used his position at SAGE to push for lockdown sooner


https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:19 am I'm noticing a lot more opinion that a realistic timescale for economic activity to recover is 36 to 48 months. Obviously that will vary from sector to sector, but it's difficult to grasp how much our way of life will be transformed in that time.

Our lives will indeed be transformed in 48 months when we depose this nasty Tory regime and elect an I-Keir Labour government.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:26 am Cummings used his position at SAGE to push for lockdown sooner


https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true

Not possible.

He was only there to observe, we’ve been told that by the Government.

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:20 am

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:26 am Cummings used his position at SAGE to push for lockdown sooner


https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true

Not possible.

He was only there to observe, we’ve been told that by the Government.

You mean to observe that the will of the government was done.

"Researchers at Aarhus University in Denmark have looked closely at 14 matches in the country's highest series, the Super League. They have concluded that if one player is infected with the corona virus then the other players are only near that person for one and a half minutes. It should be borne in mind that the study, which has not yet been published, is one of the very few in the subject. The authors behind it are Nikolas S Knudsen, Manuel M Thomasen and Thomas Bull Andersen".

Lots of talk about this study over here today.

Not sure if it will change anything short term, but maybe more studies will follow and we know a bit more about the consequences of playing games behind closed doors.

ems (@emsdi1) Tweeted: @JoeySalads @realDonaldTrump Well this is awkward :/ https://t.co/C2xft7ebMY

I think we can agree Trump is a lying cnut but I can't see the UK on the list. The UK was Unprepared, Incompetent & also Downplayed the Virus. People are on lockdown for a prolonged period due to lack of action and urgency from a PM and such an Inexperienced Cabinet. Other countries have been affected by their actions too. This will not be forgotten.

I will add an advisory here too. These 2 crackpots are trying to tell you the US is one of the best countries for testing in the world and that the countries that are showing as better than the USA are low density. They also want to downplay South Korea's response as they are not on the list. They aren't as they acted early with testing.

I will add tho, no sign of the UK.

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:20 am

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:26 am Cummings used his position at SAGE to push for lockdown sooner


https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true

Not possible.

He was only there to observe, we’ve been told that by the Government.

You should be thanking him, according to the article he was advocating an early lockdown, something that most people wanted.

Yes, that is what a lot of people will think. I just can't think who would have the motive to leak such information.

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:49 am

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:20 am

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:26 am Cummings used his position at SAGE to push for lockdown sooner


https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true

Not possible.

He was only there to observe, we’ve been told that by the Government.

You should be thanking him, according to the article he was advocating an early lockdown, something that most people wanted.

Shame the Tories had been emphatically denying that he was anything more than an "observer". Funny how the story changes if they can spin it in their favour. Bottom line is that this committee should not be biased by politics. How can it not be when someone like Cummings is there.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:14 am
Shame the Tories had been emphatically denying that he was anything more than an "observer". Funny how the story changes if they can spin it in their favour. Bottom line is that this committee should not be biased by politics. How can it not be when someone like Cummings is there.

I agree, bottom line is no political bias, but how can we be sure this particular Sage commitee is not politically biased when we do not know who is on it? Even if it is made up only of scientists and not politicians we do not know who employs them or who funds there research, and consequently we cannot see if there might be any vested interests.

In any case, it seems sensible to me that there are representatives of government (regardless of whether it's Cummings or not) present at these meetings, given the influence they have over policy. Sturgeon has argued along similar lines for Scotland. Saying that the government should be ultimately responsible for policy, yet government reps and Sage are never in the same room together seems strange to me.

SAGE is a pretty cool name though, exudes boffin qualities

Would've preferred WISE myself - Well important Science Ensemble

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:33 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:14 am
Shame the Tories had been emphatically denying that he was anything more than an "observer". Funny how the story changes if they can spin it in their favour. Bottom line is that this committee should not be biased by politics. How can it not be when someone like Cummings is there.

I agree, bottom line is no political bias, but how can we be sure this particular Sage commitee is not politically biased when we do not know who is on it? Even if it is made up only of scientists and not politicians we do not know who employs them or who funds there research, and consequently we cannot see if there might be any vested interests.

In any case, it seems sensible to me that there are representatives of government (regardless of whether it's Cummings or not) present at these meetings, given the influence they have over policy. Sturgeon has argued along similar lines for Scotland. Saying that the government should be ultimately responsible for policy, yet government reps and Sage are never in the same room together seems strange to me.

Agree with that mostly. It would appear that in the past this committee has not had any government reps on it. Secondly, Cummings isn't just any old government rep is he, he's Boris's right hand man and advisor. For the committee to openly discuss scientific options without any political bias (and I take your point that they will all have personal allegiances) whilst Cummings is there must be very difficult. He won't understand it all for one thing unless they dumb it down for him and then they're wasting time. The point of the committee is, not unreasonably, to decide what options are available, present them to government and allow government to decide on how to go forward. That seems a working premise to me. There's no possible scenario where Cummings or anyone else from number 10 needs to be there.

445 more deaths reported in England from hospitals. Full UK figures and combined figures from care homes, the community and hospital to come later.