Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Agreed. Inconclusive. Worrying, though.

The New Yorker long-read article, questioning the veracity of the evidence in the trial, can be accessed here:

Can you summarise it for us in one post please?

There's a few points that people are unsure of

What is ultimately scandalous, diabolically so, was the proven fact that the hospital ward was chronically understaffed. Why was this not a widely-debated issue?

Sunday Telegraph are reporting several Doctors & Nurses have been told not to say anything in Lucy's defence as it could harm their future career prospects. There is beginning to be a groundswell of opinion saying a gross injustice has been done. Nadine Dorries has grave doubts. Britain's infant mortality rate is 30% higher than the EU average.

If Dorries has doubts then shes guilty.

Not sure how understaffing causes babies to drop dead in mysterious circumstances.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 10:46 am Not sure how understaffing causes babies to drop dead in mysterious circumstances.

No one actually observed the accused administering fatal doses -at the very least, more staff more observance and ability to deal with emergency cases.

Would you like a baby of yours cared for in an acute neo-natal ward?

As quoted above, the current infant mortality rate in the UK is shocking.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 10:46 am Not sure how understaffing causes babies to drop dead in mysterious circumstances.

I don’t know if she’s guilty or not but I can very much see how under staffing causes risks to babies lives

I'm no legal expert, but it wouldn't be the first time there's been a miscarriage of justice.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:15 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 10:46 am Not sure how understaffing causes babies to drop dead in mysterious circumstances.

I don’t know if she’s guilty or not but I can very much see how under staffing causes risks to babies lives

Yes but not sure thats the case here.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 1:04 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:15 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 10:46 am Not sure how understaffing causes babies to drop dead in mysterious circumstances.

I don’t know if she’s guilty or not but I can very much see how under staffing causes risks to babies lives

Yes but not sure thats the case here.

Yeah I don’t know.
But I’ve seen first hand how even passive ‘care’ in the nhs leads to issues and complications. Absolutely not surprised that this was allowed to happen, by whatever circumstances it happened under

Give it to Jabo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 10:59 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 10:46 am Not sure how understaffing causes babies to drop dead in mysterious circumstances.

No one actually observed the accused administering fatal doses -at the very least, more staff more observance and ability to deal with emergency cases.

Would you like a baby of yours cared for in an acute neo-natal ward?

Apologies. That should have read UNDERSTAFFED acute neo-natal ward…

Give it to Jabo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:00 am As quoted above, the current infant mortality rate in the UK is shocking.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resour ... st%20rates.

Rate in the UK is clearly improving over time but still unacceptably high and much higher than Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Germany etc. American and Canada are even more shocking and Christ knows what happened in New Zealand in 2014? Thought it might be one of the Christchurch earthquakes but no.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 4:00 pm

Give it to Jabo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:00 am As quoted above, the current infant mortality rate in the UK is shocking.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resour ... st%20rates.

Rate in the UK is clearly improving over time but still unacceptably high and much higher than Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Germany etc. American and Canada are even more shocking and Christ knows what happened in New Zealand in 2014? Thought it might be one of the Christchurch earthquakes but no.

Thank you for that information PJ. Meanwhile I have just read that 700 million pounds was wasted on the Rwanda scheme. Crazy.

Took nine pages for the Tories to be blamed

Must be a record for a NHS thread

Give it to Jabo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 5:33 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 4:00 pm

Give it to Jabo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:00 am As quoted above, the current infant mortality rate in the UK is shocking.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resour ... st%20rates.

Rate in the UK is clearly improving over time but still unacceptably high and much higher than Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Germany etc. American and Canada are even more shocking and Christ knows what happened in New Zealand in 2014? Thought it might be one of the Christchurch earthquakes but no.

Thank you for that information PJ. Meanwhile I have just read that 700 million pounds was wasted on the Rwanda scheme. Crazy.

How effing much? That's crazy

https://unherd.com/2024/07/the-question ... tby-trial/

Long article about the Letby case from a criminal barrister.

Fascinating. One of the more disturbing aspects is the observation that her colleagues received the message that to speak up to support Letby would only result in harming their own career advancement. Chilling, but easy to believe. For what it is worth, I am more inclined to join the band of those who tend to be sceptical of her guilt. The fact that one of those involved in the prosecuting team had a previous, similar case where his evidence was discredited and that one juror was clearly biased against her but was allowed to continue in role are worrying.

Can someone post the compelling facts that point to her innocence? Because I'm not going to wade through a couple of long articles for it.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:44 pm Can someone post the compelling facts that point to her innocence? Because I'm not going to wade through a couple of long articles for it.

There isn't any. I think the summary is that her conviction may have been based on evidence which was not properly scrutinised due to the conduct of the trial. It doesn't mean she's innocent, but the evidence is now coming under some doubt from medical experts to an extent.

Anything more than than that and you'll need to put a fake 2 hour meeting in your work Outlook calendar and get reading.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:44 pm Can someone post the compelling facts that point to her innocence? Because I'm not going to wade through a couple of long articles for it.

She was convicted on circumstantial evidence rather than definitive proof.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:44 pm Can someone post the compelling facts that point to her innocence? Because I'm not going to wade through a couple of long articles for it.

There’s not. Various articles I’ve seen recently raise some doubts about the evidence given by the prosecutions expert witnesses.

The article I posted raises the possibility that in time Letby could have enough grounds to have a chance of another appeal.