Independent Leyton Orient Forum

They've been sending ships, submarines and aircraft to sniff around Britain's coast for years. Nothing new. I daresay NATO forces do similar around Russian waters and airspace

They like to hang around near where the underwater internet cables are. Just for giggles.

A Russian spy ship has been escorted out of the Irish Sea after it entered Irish-controlled waters and patrolled an area containing critical energy and internet submarine pipelines and cables.

It was spotted on Thursday east of Dublin and south-west of the Isle of Man but Norwegian, US, French and British navy and air defence services initially observed it accompanying a Russian warship, the Admiral Golovko, through the English channel last weekend.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... -irish-sea.

It seems the Ruskies are definitely more brazen now Trump is going to back in control.

The Times talking to another mad Russian

This war needs to end sharpish, as it could quickly escalate.
Instead of upping the ante, Biden should be initiating peace talks.
At some point in the future, this war will end, by the parties sitting around a table, like every war in history has ended, & that time needs to be now, before we're all blown to smithereens

Why does it need to end sharpish?

This war has been raging in one form or another since the 1730s (you could argue even earlier). There may be times when it goes from hot to cold, but fundamentally its about control of the agricultural and industrial capacity of the Great European Plain and affording Moscow with strategic depth.

Ooh, you've gone all historical materialist on us.

The last two years are materially insignificant.

For Dummies, why would Biden suddenly decide to go in for this now, in the last few weeks of his presidency? Assuming not for shits and giggles, dumping his successor with an almighty problem for the Hell of it? Maybe to help Ukraine strike some kind of more decisive blow(s) just before Trump comes in and pals up to Vlad?

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:00 pm Why does it need to end sharpish?

This war has been raging in one form or another since the 1730s (you could argue even earlier). There may be times when it goes from hot to cold, but fundamentally its about control of the agricultural and industrial capacity of the Great European Plain and affording Moscow with strategic depth.

It needs to end sharpish, because unlike in the 1730's, Russia is a nuclear power, & they are getting very agitated. With nuclear weapons now a potential factor, it has to betaken more seriously, that in the past

As an aside, im sure the mothers who have lost their sons, on both sides, wished it had been over 2 years ago, or more

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:41 pm For Dummies, why would Biden suddenly decide to go in for this now, in the last few weeks of his presidency? Assuming not for shits and giggles, dumping his successor with an almighty problem for the Hell of it? Maybe to help Ukraine strike some kind of more decisive blow(s) just before Trump comes in and pals up to Vlad?

A few things:

1. It follows what has become a hallmark pattern of the Biden government - Hold off providing certain weapons for fear of escalation, wait, wait, then approve the thing anyway. And then, despite Russia's waring, it doesn't escalate anyway.

2. It doesn't actually change that much. The range of these missiles extends Ukraine's reach into Russia by just a few hundred miles from their existing reach.

3. It may help Ukraine hold onto their current reach into the Kursk region, which will give them something to negotiate with if and when they negotiate with the Kremlin.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:50 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:41 pm For Dummies, why would Biden suddenly decide to go in for this now, in the last few weeks of his presidency? Assuming not for shits and giggles, dumping his successor with an almighty problem for the Hell of it? Maybe to help Ukraine strike some kind of more decisive blow(s) just before Trump comes in and pals up to Vlad?

A few things:

1. It follows what has become a hallmark pattern of the Biden government - Hold off providing certain weapons for fear of escalation, wait, wait, then approve the thing anyway. And then, despite Russia's waring, it doesn't escalate anyway.

2. It doesn't actually change that much. The range of these missiles extends Ukraine's reach into Russia by just a few hundred miles from their existing reach.

3. It may help Ukraine hold onto their current reach into the Kursk region, which will give them something to negotiate with if and when they negotiate with the Kremlin.

Have you not heard the old fable of the boy who cried wolf? It's the story where the Wolf turned up.

Qin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:43 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:00 pm Why does it need to end sharpish?

This war has been raging in one form or another since the 1730s (you could argue even earlier). There may be times when it goes from hot to cold, but fundamentally its about control of the agricultural and industrial capacity of the Great European Plain and affording Moscow with strategic depth.

It needs to end sharpish, because unlike in the 1730's, Russia is a nuclear power, & they are getting very agitated. With nuclear weapons now a potential factor, it has to betaken more seriously, that in the past

As an aside, im sure the mothers who have lost their sons, on both sides, wished it had been over 2 years ago, or more

Russia wont use nukes against the West.

What this, and previous US-led aggressions have taught us, is that the main benefit of nukes is to act as a deterrent against a potential aggressor. But they are pretty useless when it comes to actual fighting.

At a strategic level they result in a lose-lose scenario. And tactical use is only optimal in constrained environs, such as dockyards etc, but the same results can also be achieved using cheaper conventional weapons.

I can Imagine in a Post Nuclear world in the New Year, Dunners tapping away on his computer keyboard like the Black Knight from the Holy Grail.
It will be somewhat slower as he'll only have his nose left to type with

Qin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:43 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:00 pm Why does it need to end sharpish?

This war has been raging in one form or another since the 1730s (you could argue even earlier). There may be times when it goes from hot to cold, but fundamentally its about control of the agricultural and industrial capacity of the Great European Plain and affording Moscow with strategic depth.

It needs to end sharpish, because unlike in the 1730's, Russia is a nuclear power, & they are getting very agitated. With nuclear weapons now a potential factor, it has to betaken more seriously, that in the past

As an aside, im sure the mothers who have lost their sons, on both sides, wished it had been over 2 years ago, or more

They're getting aggy over a war they started. Sod em.

Surely this is just two fingers up to Trump and a desperate attempt to help Ukraine whilst the US can, until january?

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 10:18 am They like to hang around near where the underwater internet cables are. Just for giggles.

Hmmm.

The fibre communications cable between Finland and Germany beneath the Baltic Sea has just been cut. It’s the only cable connecting Finland with Central Europe.

It will be the Americans again, branching out into interweb cable sabotage after their oil pipeline success of a few years ago.

It's funny reading about the North Korean soldiers. The Russians soldiers have introduced them to the whole online porn thing, and now they're all bunking off training for frequent dates with Mrs Hand and her five lovely daughters.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:31 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 10:18 am They like to hang around near where the underwater internet cables are. Just for giggles.

Hmmm.

The fibre communications cable between Finland and Germany beneath the Baltic Sea has just been cut. It’s the only cable connecting Finland with Central Europe.

Could have been a swordfish?

I would think it's more likely that Putin will arm the Houthis with more sophisticated/longer range missiles in the Yemen and they will start to try taking out oil tankers and possibly military ships in the straits of Oman rather than Russia launch a direct attack on NATO. Despite all his rhetoric he knows that getting involved directly with NATO will only end badly, he will bide his time and wait for Trump. Sooner or later there will have to be negotiations for a peace settlement.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 9:52 pm I would think it's more likely that Putin will arm the Houthis with more sophisticated/longer range missiles in the Yemen and they will start to try taking out oil tankers and possibly military ships in the straits of Oman rather than Russia launch a direct attack on NATO. Despite all his rhetoric he knows that getting involved directly with NATO will only end badly, he will bide his time and wait for Trump. Sooner or later there will have to be negotiations for a peace settlement.

I agree . In the end there will need to be an negotiated settlement . Can people honestly say they can see Ukraine winning this war because I can't . There is absolutely no way Putin will ever accept defeat . Biden giving permission to launch American long range missiles into Russia is another step towards further escalation. The Russians insist that these long range missiles can only work with the help of NATO satellites . They said that this would mean NATO's direct involvement in the war. My fear is Putin will use a tactical nuke on Kyiv rather than lose the war . Incidentally a tactical nuke is considered to be the size of the Hiroshima bomb .

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/19 ... th-nuclear

' Warned Brits could spend Christmas in shelters " ......What fcuking shelters ?

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:41 pm For Dummies, why would Biden suddenly decide to go in for this now, in the last few weeks of his presidency? Assuming not for shits and giggles, dumping his successor with an almighty problem for the Hell of it? Maybe to help Ukraine strike some kind of more decisive blow(s) just before Trump comes in and pals up to Vlad?

Because North Korea have now joined forces with Russia, and the US want to show this is not acceptable.

But that was weeks ago.