Independent Leyton Orient Forum

HavantO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:18 am Just one down from league two. Already confirmed.

that'll cheer up a few of the knicker-wetters on here, we can still go down this season...

am kind of surprised it has taken this long since the creation of the premier league for a league club to go out of business, once the bigger clubs siphoned off the tv cash at the creation of the premier league and didn't share it down the pyramid as they had to previously it was always on the cards .. i remember at the time the argument was that it would help the national team and that transfer money would trickle down but the reality hasn't been like that at all as the bigger clubs poach the best youngsters for peanuts before they come of age, and only spend big bucks on established professionals from abroad or already established teams.. sad to say that i can see most of the smaller clubs going out of business over time and we'll be left with a few mega clubs located in the major cities. oh well at least the big clubs have made a lot of money and have increased their global footprint, even if it continues to destroy the smaller towns and cities that helped grow the game in the first place.

It’s a very sad state of affairs for the fans, staff and community of Bury. But I don’t think the EFL had much option but to expel them from their competition considering the mis-management of the Club over the last few years and faced with a dubious chancer like Dale arsing about with the company law administration game.

It’s always a worry when a Club and its assets (primarily Gigg Lane by the previous idiot in this case) are pawned to cover budgeted operational costs way beyond turnover, or some foolish egomaniac (like Beelzebub) decides to go all-in in an attempt to get a club up the pyramid. Even when the custodian seems well-meaning and benign (our situation now - with Teague and Travis styling their cash subsidies as loans whilst the ground is owned by Hearn’s pension fund) - fans and the authorities need to be wary of persistent overspending rather than assume a benefactor will always cover the losses they decide to budget for.

Good post!!..
How close were we to a similar fate

Devastating news for the fans, staff and the town of Bury. Ultimately though this shows the ablect failure of the EFL to regulate ownership of the clubs, it's been an accident waiting to happen and of course it so nearly was us. Heart goes out to the loyal staff and fans of Bury FC this morning, shame on the EFL.

orchard2020 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:09 am Good post!!..
How close were we to a similar fate

Thank god Barry still owned the ground.
Brilliant deal getting a bloke to pay 4m and keeping the only real asset.

slacker wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:09 am (our situation now - with Teague and Travis styling their cash subsidies as loans whilst the ground is owned by Hearn’s pension fund) - fans and the authorities need to be wary of persistent overspending rather than assume a benefactor will always cover the losses they decide to budget for.

That is concerning, did not know that. Arent there rules about injecting cash as loans?

Yes - there are. I think provided a booked loan doesn’t have an interest rate attached to it that’s basically ok by the EFL rules (that are agreed by the member clubs at the AGM rather than imposed by the League’s officers).

slacker wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:09 am It’s a very sad state of affairs for the fans, staff and community of Bury. But I don’t think the EFL had much option but to expel them from their competition considering the mis-management of the Club over the last few years and faced with a dubious chancer like Dale arsing about with the company law administration game.

It’s always a worry when a Club and its assets (primarily Gigg Lane by the previous idiot in this case) are pawned to cover budgeted operational costs way beyond turnover, or some foolish egomaniac (like Beelzebub) decides to go all-in in an attempt to get a club up the pyramid. Even when the custodian seems well-meaning and benign (our situation now - with Teague and Travis styling their cash subsidies as loans whilst the ground is owned by Hearn’s pension fund) - fans and the authorities need to be wary of persistent overspending rather than assume a benefactor will always cover the losses they decide to budget for.

This - while the game is set up with so much of the real revenue going to the very top table, you're always going to have the situation where clubs end up having to rely on the rich benefactor. It doesn't matter how strong any "Fit and Proper Person" test is, if the only person who puts their hand up to cover ongoing losses is a chancer, and the alternative is liquidation, then the chancer ends up in charge (see Dale at Bury)

It's true that the problem might be "overspending" but it's only "overspending" if it's greater than your income - so maybe the problem is actually lack of income. Solve the distribution of the huge revenues into the game (and stop the lion's share being hoovered out by a few players and their agents) and you might find that clubs lower down the pyramid can thrive.

You’re pushing at an open door with me here, Spike. I’m still miffed about gate sharing being binned, let alone the avarice of the “Big Clubs” in the PL...

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:33 am

slacker wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:09 am (our situation now - with Teague and Travis styling their cash subsidies as loans whilst the ground is owned by Hearn’s pension fund) - fans and the authorities need to be wary of persistent overspending rather than assume a benefactor will always cover the losses they decide to budget for.

That is concerning, did not know that. Arent there rules about injecting cash as loans?

Where the hell have you been these past 18 months?

Don’t worry, they’ve announced that they’ve written the loans off in their heads (but not in the actual books).

And loans cant be used for wages right?

Sure, the loans are just used for all the other running costs.

I am still wondering what Steve Dale was/is trying to do.
Did he buy the club for £1 with a view to reducing the debts via the CVA and then selling it for £1 million? Was that why £7m of debt was sold for £70K to a company formed just 2 days in advance of the CVA?
Does he directly or indirectly own the land? Is he planning to sell that and make some easy money?

http://priceoffootball.com/bury-minutes-to-midnight/

I've read that the £7m of debt may not even be a valid claim, as that debt was converted to shares in the club by Day.

The ultimate owners of the mortgages on the ground lead back to companies in the secretive tax haven that is the British Virgin Islands.

I suspect Dale didnt get involved for the peanuts he's managed to squeeze out so far.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:27 am I've read that the £7m of debt may not even be a valid claim, as that debt was converted to shares in the club by Day.

I caught the tail end of something on the radio that said one of the professionals involved had been disciplined by his governing body twice.

Adz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:35 am Callous, I know, but any bury players we should try and sign up?

Wouldn't bother, all the decent ones went to Plymouth a long time ago.......

We've got form for handing out a life-raft to players who ain't getting paid, but they only have a few players left now.

Harry Bunn would be an improvement on Alabi and might even be better than Wilkinson. Doesn't seem like a forward, but as a supporting striker he has some pedigree (source:http://talkofthetown1908.com/what-to-expect-harry-bunn)

Dann and Dawson would be too old I think.

This from the Guardian.....

A Bury FC player speaks. Speaking to Talksport earlier this morning, Bury’s 33-year-old midfielder Stephen Dawson seemed resigned to having to sell his house.

“I’ve been onto the mortgage adviser this morning because that is the end,” he said. “There’s no two ways about it now, that is it for me.

“I’ve played my whole career and put everything into my house and my kids to give them a start in life when they are 18, whether that be a deposit for a house or money for college.

“I don’t have the fancy cars or the fancy clothes as I was never in a position to earn the thousands and thousands the really good players earn.”

The week before last, Dawson and Bury owner Steve Dale had a frank and bad-tempered exchange of views on the radio station, in which Dale openly rubbished the notion that Dawson might have to sell his home to make ends meet.


Feel for the guy - I remember when he was with us at Theo's Christmas Party one year, my daughter was desperate to win some piece of tat in the kids dancing competition. She didn't win, but Dawson was so impressed with her efforts, he gave her a fiver (which sounds a bit creepy, but really wasn't at all). He didn't have to do that. I'd very much like to give him his fiver back now.

o-no wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:46 pm This from the Guardian.....

A Bury FC player speaks. Speaking to Talksport earlier this morning, Bury’s 33-year-old midfielder Stephen Dawson seemed resigned to having to sell his house.

“I’ve been onto the mortgage adviser this morning because that is the end,” he said. “There’s no two ways about it now, that is it for me.

“I’ve played my whole career and put everything into my house and my kids to give them a start in life when they are 18, whether that be a deposit for a house or money for college.

“I don’t have the fancy cars or the fancy clothes as I was never in a position to earn the thousands and thousands the really good players earn.”

The week before last, Dawson and Bury owner Steve Dale had a frank and bad-tempered exchange of views on the radio station, in which Dale openly rubbished the notion that Dawson might have to sell his home to make ends meet.


Feel for the guy - I remember when he was with us at Theo's Christmas Party one year, my daughter was desperate to win some piece of tat in the kids dancing competition. She didn't win, but Dawson was so impressed with her efforts, he gave her a fiver (which sounds a bit creepy, but really wasn't at all). He didn't have to do that. I'd very much like to give him his fiver back now.

Awesome Dawson - always thought he was a good man. I do hope he gets himself sorted out in some way. Criminal that the guy has to sell his house.

Bolton saved! Good news.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:22 pm Bolton saved! Good news.

Indeed.

Let's hope the new lot aren't just another bunch of chancers.

Nick Mason is one of them I believe.

He is a good guy!

Assuming Bury were in peril for a considerable time how did they manage to get promoted last season, we didn't when we were in the mire in fact the opposite