Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Donald Trump has praised as “spectacular” a doctor who wrongly dismissed the use of face masks to combat the coronavirus as well as reportedly claiming that alien DNA is used in medical treatments; and that some gynecological problems are caused by people dreaming about having sex with demons.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... uine-video

In response, a supporting Trump states “And I thought her voice was an important voice, but I know nothing about her.”

Has Trump seriously lost the plot? He needs certifying as criminally insane, surely!

They rolled out a whole slew of these doctors for the press to claim that people would be much safer if everything was opened up, schools don't need social distancing or masks, wearing masks will kill you, Hexachloraquin should be given to everyone etc. Additionally several of them are from that bastion of truth and reality, the AntiVax movement.

Mikero

The Hoover building where the FBI is headquartered is falling apart and getting beyond repair, this has been known for a while and plans were being made to move them out and sell the site. It was thought that a hotel would be built there, but there is a Trump hotel in the same block so that plan was stamped on from on high. Suddenly this week it was found that the Covid relief bill going through the Senate contained the millions of dollars needed for a new FBI headquarters building, this was done so quietly that the Senate leader had to have this pointed out to him by an aid and said "Ask the Whitehouse". The smart money is on Trump moving the FBI into his hotel and buying the site.

The reason why they have put it in this bill is that the Democrats will not vote it down as millions of families will be made homeless if it does not go though, due to the end of the moritorium on evictions and mortgage foreclosures.

Mikero

If it’s in the Guardian it must be accurate and totally unbiased without a hint of an axe to grind. And people dig at the Daily Mail.

I see that Biden is leading in all of the polls, including the swing states. And yet I can still see Trump just about winning in November. Biden's rating have actually improved as he has withdrawn from public appearances, but he wont be able to carry on like that in the build-up to the election.

It is going to nosssssssedive when he has to debate Trump. It'll go awfully for him I think. Obviously they like the bravado over there that we enjoy over here too, but he doesn't even do the 'Murcia thing very well anymore.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:57 pm I see that Biden is leading in all of the polls, including the swing states. And yet I can still see Trump just about winning in November. Biden's rating have actually improved as he has withdrawn from public appearances, but he wont be able to carry on like that in the build-up to the election.

Why not? Worked for BoJo.

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:06 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:57 pm I see that Biden is leading in all of the polls, including the swing states. And yet I can still see Trump just about winning in November. Biden's rating have actually improved as he has withdrawn from public appearances, but he wont be able to carry on like that in the build-up to the election.

Why not? Worked for BoJo.

He can also make sure theres a fridge about too

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:57 pm I see that Biden is leading in all of the polls, including the swing states. And yet I can still see Trump just about winning in November. Biden's rating have actually improved as he has withdrawn from public appearances, but he wont be able to carry on like that in the build-up to the election.

Fake news. You will see just how fake when Trump kicks Bidens arse in November

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:43 pm It is going to nosssssssedive when he has to debate Trump. It'll go awfully for him I think. Obviously they like the bravado over there that we enjoy over here too, but he doesn't even do the 'Murcia thing very well anymore.

That’s why they want to keep him buried in his basement. Donald Trump will rip him a new one in the one- on -one debates and the Democrats know it.

I mean Trump is horrendous at them too. He is a terrible orator, but we've been used to his way of speaking publicly for 5 years now so it won't feel so awkward. When Biden does his 'I'd beat the crap outta this guy!' routine it'll just be weird.

Trump will beat him on flair, as such, but he won't beat him on substance. He never says anything of substance as he just simply doesn't remember or know the details. But that's fine for his base really.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:29 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:57 pm I see that Biden is leading in all of the polls, including the swing states. And yet I can still see Trump just about winning in November. Biden's rating have actually improved as he has withdrawn from public appearances, but he wont be able to carry on like that in the build-up to the election.

Fake news. You will see just how fake when Trump kicks Bidens arse in November

Are you an admirer of Trump then?

If so, why?

Put it this way. If I lived in America and wanted to keep or get a job , plus wanted the police if I was being attacked , I would vote for Trump. You don’t have to like him because it comes down to self preservation. Feck the democrats looney defund and dismantle the police. On what planet would sending out social workers do to combat crime . That’s got to be the worse policy ever to come out of any Western political party . Sheer madness of the highest order

At the risk of coming across as patronising, I'm not sure you've got a great grasp on what 'defund the police' means in a general sense, nor what a social worker can do in a criminal justice system. Have a read of this; https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ave-merit/

Example for you; Man with mental health problems commits theft in a shop. He nicks a loaf of bread. He gets arrested. Next week he steals a can of coke. He gets arrested. He does that 300 times in a 5 year period and the judge has no choice but to send him to prison for a few years for reoffending. It is better for the country if his issues are addressed, both socially and financially. And I'd say ethically. It's not saying we should let social workers turn up to terrorist attacks offering talk therapy. It's saying we should ensure funds are allocated in those departments rather than just thrown at police.


P.S Obama started and facilitated the jobs boom, not Trump.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:09 pm Put it this way. If I lived in America and wanted to keep or get a job , plus wanted the police if I was being attacked , I would vote for Trump. You don’t have to like him because it comes down to self preservation. Feck the democrats looney defund and dismantle the police. On what planet would sending out social workers do to combat crime . That’s got to be the worse policy ever to come out of any Western political party . Sheer madness of the highest order

Well the current systems working perfectly, so why change it?

It's an idiotic slogan and idea. Can't the police AND social services both be funded?

Some lefties only see the world in black and white and are fickle.

People that were telling us last December that Tory cuts to the police are the reason to blame for violent crime are now calling for the abolition of police because it's the latest line to follow.

It’s a very different Argument for police cuts in America compared to here. I’m not an expert and have only read a little bit about it part of the reason Americans want police funding cut is because they are spending vast amounts on obviously ineffectual training.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:26 pm At the risk of coming across as patronising, I'm not sure you've got a great grasp on what 'defund the police' means in a general sense, nor what a social worker can do in a criminal justice system. Have a read of this; https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ave-merit/

Example for you; Man with mental health problems commits theft in a shop. He nicks a loaf of bread. He gets arrested. Next week he steals a can of coke. He gets arrested. He does that 300 times in a 5 year period and the judge has no choice but to send him to prison for a few years for reoffending. It is better for the country if his issues are addressed, both socially and financially. And I'd say ethically. It's not saying we should let social workers turn up to terrorist attacks offering talk therapy. It's saying we should ensure funds are allocated in those departments rather than just thrown at police.


P.S Obama started and facilitated the jobs boom, not Trump.

Is this an example of something that has happened?

Do you have any experience in social work or policing?

FWIW, shop lifters aren't usually arrested and when they are they are offered the help from the support groups/charities/social care you mention.

Unfortunately you can't force people to accept help

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:40 pm Some lefties only see the world in black and white and are fickle.

People that were telling us last December that Tory cuts to the police are the reason to blame for violent crime are now calling for the abolition of police because it's the latest line to follow.

Really? Who are these people you are referring to?

This town hired more social workers instead of extra police officers:

• Numbers jailed fell 15%
• Repeat offending fell
• Taxpayer saved $40,000+ p.a.

https://www.wave3.com/2020/07/28/kentuc ... urprising/

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:40 pm Some lefties only see the world in black and white

I thought that was the Far Right ,
Most of the rest of us see decent Human Beings

Trump's soundbites over the last months on the virus have been classic Donaldisms:

20 January: ‘We have it under control’
On 20 January the US recorded its first case of coronavirus. Two days later Trump told CNBC: “It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

26 February: ‘It’s going to disappear’
In late February, by which time the US had recorded 60 cases of infection, Trump told a White House press briefing: “When you have 15 people … within a couple of days it’s going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

The following day he returned to the theme, saying: “It’s going to disappear. One day – it’s like a miracle – it will disappear.”

10 March: ‘It will go away’
By 10 March the coronavirus curve in the US was climbing steeply, with 37 official deaths and more than 1,000 confirmed cases.

On that day, Trump emerged from a meeting with Republican senators to tell the media how well the US was doing. “We’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”

29 April: ‘It’s gonna be gone’
Trump returned to the argument that the virus would just disappear at the end of April. The US had just notched up its millionth positive test for coronavirus, and reached 58,000 recorded deaths – an emotive figure given that it meant the virus had claimed more lives than the Vietnam war.

On 29 April, the president told reporters: “This is going away. It’s gonna go. It’s gonna leave. It’s gonna be gone. It’s going to be eradicated … If you have a flare-up in a certain area – I call them burning embers – boom, you put it out.”

11 May: ‘We have prevailed’
In a grandiose coronavirus briefing from the Rose Garden, Trump announced his administration was winning the fight against the virus. “We have met the moment, and we have prevailed. Americans do whatever it takes to find solutions, pioneer breakthroughs, and harness the energies we need to achieve a total victory.”

That day the death toll in the US hit 80,000.

17 June: ‘It’s fading away’
Trump carried on predicting that the disease would disappear of its own accord through June, a time when the virus was in fact spreading fast through huge swaths of the country. In a radio call to Fox News he said: “It’s fading away. It’s going to fade away. But having a vaccine would be really nice.”

19 July: ‘I’ll be right eventually’
Earlier this month, Fox News Sunday played back to Trump his many claims that the virus would disappear. The president shot back: “I’ll be right eventually. It’s going to disappear, and I’ll be right.”

The show’s host, Chris Wallace, asked Trump whether dogged insistence that the virus would vanish, even while it proliferated, would discredit him. “I don’t think so, you know why?” he replied. “Because I’ve been right probably more than anybody else.

I guess he will be right eventually. Gawd bless America.

This election is going to be something else.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:43 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:26 pm At the risk of coming across as patronising, I'm not sure you've got a great grasp on what 'defund the police' means in a general sense, nor what a social worker can do in a criminal justice system. Have a read of this; https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ave-merit/

Example for you; Man with mental health problems commits theft in a shop. He nicks a loaf of bread. He gets arrested. Next week he steals a can of coke. He gets arrested. He does that 300 times in a 5 year period and the judge has no choice but to send him to prison for a few years for reoffending. It is better for the country if his issues are addressed, both socially and financially. And I'd say ethically. It's not saying we should let social workers turn up to terrorist attacks offering talk therapy. It's saying we should ensure funds are allocated in those departments rather than just thrown at police.


P.S Obama started and facilitated the jobs boom, not Trump.

Is this an example of something that has happened?

Do you have any experience in social work or policing?

FWIW, shop lifters aren't usually arrested and when they are they are offered the help from the support groups/charities/social care you mention.

Unfortunately you can't force people to accept help

It was not, no. It was just an extreme example.

https://www.chad.co.uk/news/crime/man-j ... re-2880368
Here is a guy over here that got 14 months for shoplifting over a 3 month period, including 16 bottles of self tan and washing powder. This is last month.

Search 'jailed Walmart shoplifter' and you'll see lots of cases in the US. Including a guy that was banned from Walmart getting a minimum of 12 years as the prosecution argued it counted as burglary due to his ban.

I do not have experience in policing but I do in social work. I agree a lot of the time they are, but over there in particular the levels of support they receive when there are poor and the funding disparity with the police force isn't proportional.